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	<title>Comments on: First Look at Mark Regnerus&#8217;s Study on Children of Parents In Same-Sex Relationships</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/10/45512</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: StraightGrandmother</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/10/45512/comment-page-2#comment-128529</link>
		<dc:creator>StraightGrandmother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 21:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=45512#comment-128529</guid>
		<description>Thank you Christopher. Yes let&#039;s look at the opening paragraph of that article Christopher links to-
Written by
Debra Umberson
Sociology professor, University of Texas at Austin; Editor, Journal of Health and Social Behavior

&quot;Mark Regnerus claims to have produced the first rigorous scientific evidence showing that same sex families harm children. As a family sociologist at the University of Texas, I am disturbed by his irresponsible and reckless representation of social science research, and furious that he is besmirching my university to lend credibility to his &quot;findings.&quot;(continue reading article)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/debra-umberson/texas-professors-gay-research_b_1628988.html

In fact I sent a very nice e-mail to all these Professors and would ask everyone here to do that same thing. 

Professors Umberson, Cavanagh, Glass, and Raley

(e-mail addresses comma separated)

umberson@prc.utexas.edu,scavanagh@austin.utexas.edu,jennifer-glass@austin.utexas.edu, kelly.raley@mail.utexas.edu

Please take just a minute of your time and e-mail these Professors for making a public statement on just how good the Regnerus research is (not).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Christopher. Yes let&#8217;s look at the opening paragraph of that article Christopher links to-<br />
Written by<br />
Debra Umberson<br />
Sociology professor, University of Texas at Austin; Editor, Journal of Health and Social Behavior</p>
<p>&#8220;Mark Regnerus claims to have produced the first rigorous scientific evidence showing that same sex families harm children. As a family sociologist at the University of Texas, I am disturbed by his irresponsible and reckless representation of social science research, and furious that he is besmirching my university to lend credibility to his &#8220;findings.&#8221;(continue reading article)<br />
<a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/debra-umberson/texas-professors-gay-research_b_1628988.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/debra-umberson/texas-professors-gay-research_b_1628988.html</a></p>
<p>In fact I sent a very nice e-mail to all these Professors and would ask everyone here to do that same thing. </p>
<p>Professors Umberson, Cavanagh, Glass, and Raley</p>
<p>(e-mail addresses comma separated)</p>
<p><a href="mailto:umberson@prc.utexas.edu">umberson@prc.utexas.edu</a>,scavanagh@austin.utexas.edu,jennifer-glass@austin.utexas.edu, <a href="mailto:kelly.raley@mail.utexas.edu">kelly.raley@mail.utexas.edu</a></p>
<p>Please take just a minute of your time and e-mail these Professors for making a public statement on just how good the Regnerus research is (not).</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/10/45512/comment-page-2#comment-128524</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 20:14:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=45512#comment-128524</guid>
		<description>And how did you arrive at that conclusion, George? StraightGrandmother has merely pointed out the fact, which has been confirmed by several others, that Dr. Regnerus&#039;s study was deeply flawed and designed to be prejudicial.

In fact the same criticism&#039;s of Dr. Regnerus&#039;s study have been made by three of his colleagues, all of whom have greater expertise in statistical analysis. See:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/debra-umberson/texas-professors-gay-research_b_1628988.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And how did you arrive at that conclusion, George? StraightGrandmother has merely pointed out the fact, which has been confirmed by several others, that Dr. Regnerus&#8217;s study was deeply flawed and designed to be prejudicial.</p>
<p>In fact the same criticism&#8217;s of Dr. Regnerus&#8217;s study have been made by three of his colleagues, all of whom have greater expertise in statistical analysis. See:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/debra-umberson/texas-professors-gay-research_b_1628988.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/debra-umberson/texas-professors-gay-research_b_1628988.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/10/45512/comment-page-2#comment-128522</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 20:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=45512#comment-128522</guid>
		<description>&quot;Straightgrandmother&quot; has clearly identified herself as a bigot, it is as simple as that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Straightgrandmother&#8221; has clearly identified herself as a bigot, it is as simple as that.</p>
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		<title>By: EstherL</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/10/45512/comment-page-2#comment-127387</link>
		<dc:creator>EstherL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=45512#comment-127387</guid>
		<description>Excellent revision, Jim.

The study does not compare the outcomes of heterosexual biological parents with outcomes of functional homoparental families (two mothers or two fathers). If you compare functional families with disfunctional one, it is probably that the results were worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent revision, Jim.</p>
<p>The study does not compare the outcomes of heterosexual biological parents with outcomes of functional homoparental families (two mothers or two fathers). If you compare functional families with disfunctional one, it is probably that the results were worse.</p>
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		<title>By: StraightGrandmother</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/10/45512/comment-page-2#comment-127243</link>
		<dc:creator>StraightGrandmother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=45512#comment-127243</guid>
		<description>I think I am going to post this on all the Regnerus topics on Box Turtle. Let&#039;s say we &lt;b&gt;all work together&lt;/b&gt; and make a terrific website where we collect all this information on the Regnerus&#039; Study.

We crowd source this and everybody helps. I think what is missing is a lot of comments on the research by other Sociologists. We can all take a State and then call all the Universities in that State and speak to Sociologists there and ask them to provide their feedback on the research. 

Other people can work on collecting up all the direct quotes from Regnerus.

Oh and shouldn&#039;t we collect up all the places the data is being misreported? I saw for example a quote something like, &quot;Well this study proves that pedophilia is rampant with gays&quot;

And what about a website? Should we buy a domain name or should we use Blogger or Word press or something? If we hosted this separately how much would that cost us in bandwidth if a lot of people visited? Does anybody have idea on this? 

Let&#039;s set this up and organize this so it will be real easy for lawyers from our side to have a good reference point to jump off from. 

What else? Do you like this idea? Who will help? I don&#039;t mind if this is a part of Box Turtle and they are getting recognition for this. But I do think to do this right it is to big for the few guys at Box Turtle we need a lot more helping hands than just those guys. Whadda think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I am going to post this on all the Regnerus topics on Box Turtle. Let&#8217;s say we <b>all work together</b> and make a terrific website where we collect all this information on the Regnerus&#8217; Study.</p>
<p>We crowd source this and everybody helps. I think what is missing is a lot of comments on the research by other Sociologists. We can all take a State and then call all the Universities in that State and speak to Sociologists there and ask them to provide their feedback on the research. </p>
<p>Other people can work on collecting up all the direct quotes from Regnerus.</p>
<p>Oh and shouldn&#8217;t we collect up all the places the data is being misreported? I saw for example a quote something like, &#8220;Well this study proves that pedophilia is rampant with gays&#8221;</p>
<p>And what about a website? Should we buy a domain name or should we use Blogger or Word press or something? If we hosted this separately how much would that cost us in bandwidth if a lot of people visited? Does anybody have idea on this? </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s set this up and organize this so it will be real easy for lawyers from our side to have a good reference point to jump off from. </p>
<p>What else? Do you like this idea? Who will help? I don&#8217;t mind if this is a part of Box Turtle and they are getting recognition for this. But I do think to do this right it is to big for the few guys at Box Turtle we need a lot more helping hands than just those guys. Whadda think?</p>
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		<title>By: StraightGrandmother</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/10/45512/comment-page-2#comment-126159</link>
		<dc:creator>StraightGrandmother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2012 01:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=45512#comment-126159</guid>
		<description>Kendall
Explained in this article

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/11/45557</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kendall<br />
Explained in this article</p>
<p><a href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/11/45557" rel="nofollow" class="articleLink">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/11/45557</a></p>
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		<title>By: kendall</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/10/45512/comment-page-2#comment-126150</link>
		<dc:creator>kendall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:54:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=45512#comment-126150</guid>
		<description>So, why is the Social Science Review publishing it?  It appears to be a peer-reviewed journal.  They have standards like any other peer-reviewed journal.  While it seems clear that this is shoddy research at best (and I am saying this based only on my quick read of this article, not the journal publication itself), how did the review process miss all of that?  And why not go directly to the Journal and protest to them, rather than waste time on a researcher who has a clear bias and agenda?  It&#039;s their job to make sure what they publish is good science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, why is the Social Science Review publishing it?  It appears to be a peer-reviewed journal.  They have standards like any other peer-reviewed journal.  While it seems clear that this is shoddy research at best (and I am saying this based only on my quick read of this article, not the journal publication itself), how did the review process miss all of that?  And why not go directly to the Journal and protest to them, rather than waste time on a researcher who has a clear bias and agenda?  It&#8217;s their job to make sure what they publish is good science.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Burroway</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/10/45512/comment-page-2#comment-126136</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Burroway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:57:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=45512#comment-126136</guid>
		<description>Rebecca

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Problem #2: Arbitrary Decisions in Dealing with Overlaps Between Categories Make the LM and GF Categories Heterogeneous While the Other Categories Remain Relatively Homogeneous.&quot;

This would explain why the children of homosexual parents would be more like the category of children of divorced parents, single parents, adopted parents, step-parents and “other” family structures, but it doesn’t explain why the children of homosexual parents have worse outcomes than children in those categories.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You are making the same fundamental error that Regnerus makes. 

You are again comparing a category of hodgepodges with four other homogeneous categories. 

If the other unstable categories were combined into ONE heterosexual category and compared with a single homosexual (unstable) category, then you would have a valid comparison. 

The fact that you made the same complaint earlier in this thread and ignored my response suggests you are either not paying attention or you&#039;d just rather not recognize the importance of comparing apples to apples. Unless you recognize that fundamental error, then you&#039;re going to remain in the weeds on the others as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rebecca</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Problem #2: Arbitrary Decisions in Dealing with Overlaps Between Categories Make the LM and GF Categories Heterogeneous While the Other Categories Remain Relatively Homogeneous.&#8221;</p>
<p>This would explain why the children of homosexual parents would be more like the category of children of divorced parents, single parents, adopted parents, step-parents and “other” family structures, but it doesn’t explain why the children of homosexual parents have worse outcomes than children in those categories.</p></blockquote>
<p>You are making the same fundamental error that Regnerus makes. </p>
<p>You are again comparing a category of hodgepodges with four other homogeneous categories. </p>
<p>If the other unstable categories were combined into ONE heterosexual category and compared with a single homosexual (unstable) category, then you would have a valid comparison. </p>
<p>The fact that you made the same complaint earlier in this thread and ignored my response suggests you are either not paying attention or you&#8217;d just rather not recognize the importance of comparing apples to apples. Unless you recognize that fundamental error, then you&#8217;re going to remain in the weeds on the others as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Gregory McGuirk</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/10/45512/comment-page-2#comment-126135</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregory McGuirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=45512#comment-126135</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your excellent work. I am a Psychology student in Canberra Australia - I will be following up this next week after my exams are done and I have some time to read. I recently did a paper on all the published material about lesbian parenting and so this one is an interesting new arrival. I&#039;ll get back to you if I hear glean anything new from it.
All the best Greg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your excellent work. I am a Psychology student in Canberra Australia &#8211; I will be following up this next week after my exams are done and I have some time to read. I recently did a paper on all the published material about lesbian parenting and so this one is an interesting new arrival. I&#8217;ll get back to you if I hear glean anything new from it.<br />
All the best Greg</p>
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		<title>By: Rebecca</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/10/45512/comment-page-2#comment-126133</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=45512#comment-126133</guid>
		<description>&quot;Problem #1: Identifying a Same-Sex Relationship Doesn’t Tell Us Anything About the Nature of the Relationship.&quot;

The study doesn’t claim to, and the author quotes Dr. Regnerus stating this.

&quot;Problem #2: Arbitrary Decisions in Dealing with Overlaps Between Categories Make the LM and GF Categories Heterogeneous While the Other Categories Remain Relatively Homogeneous.&quot;

This would explain why the children of homosexual parents would be more like the category of children of divorced parents, single parents, adopted parents, step-parents and “other” family structures, but it doesn’t explain why the children of homosexual parents have worse outcomes than children in those categories.

&quot;Problem #3: It Doesn’t Study Children Who Grew Up In Gay- or Lesbian-Led Households.&quot;

Out of 15,000 adults, it studies the outcomes of all the adults who claimed to have at least one homosexual parent. I don&#039;t know that it is a problem that it doesn&#039;t study something different. It doesn&#039;t claim to study something different.

&quot;Problem #4: This Study Makes The Wrong Comparison. When you look at the data, the study’s real findings become obvious. Children of parents who have had a same-sex relationship — a group that includes very large numbers of children of divorced parents, single parents, adopted parents, step-parents and &#039;other&#039; family structures — have developmental outcomes which are remarkably similar to children of divorced, single, adopted, step-, and &#039;other&#039; family structures overall when compared to intact, non-adoptive heterosexual families.&quot;

Again, this supposes that the children of homosexual parents had the same outcomes of children of divorced parents, single parents, adopted parents, step-parents and “other” family structures, but they had worse outcomes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Problem #1: Identifying a Same-Sex Relationship Doesn’t Tell Us Anything About the Nature of the Relationship.&#8221;</p>
<p>The study doesn’t claim to, and the author quotes Dr. Regnerus stating this.</p>
<p>&#8220;Problem #2: Arbitrary Decisions in Dealing with Overlaps Between Categories Make the LM and GF Categories Heterogeneous While the Other Categories Remain Relatively Homogeneous.&#8221;</p>
<p>This would explain why the children of homosexual parents would be more like the category of children of divorced parents, single parents, adopted parents, step-parents and “other” family structures, but it doesn’t explain why the children of homosexual parents have worse outcomes than children in those categories.</p>
<p>&#8220;Problem #3: It Doesn’t Study Children Who Grew Up In Gay- or Lesbian-Led Households.&#8221;</p>
<p>Out of 15,000 adults, it studies the outcomes of all the adults who claimed to have at least one homosexual parent. I don&#8217;t know that it is a problem that it doesn&#8217;t study something different. It doesn&#8217;t claim to study something different.</p>
<p>&#8220;Problem #4: This Study Makes The Wrong Comparison. When you look at the data, the study’s real findings become obvious. Children of parents who have had a same-sex relationship — a group that includes very large numbers of children of divorced parents, single parents, adopted parents, step-parents and &#8216;other&#8217; family structures — have developmental outcomes which are remarkably similar to children of divorced, single, adopted, step-, and &#8216;other&#8217; family structures overall when compared to intact, non-adoptive heterosexual families.&#8221;</p>
<p>Again, this supposes that the children of homosexual parents had the same outcomes of children of divorced parents, single parents, adopted parents, step-parents and “other” family structures, but they had worse outcomes.</p>
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