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	<title>Comments on: Regnerus Admits He Lacks the Data to Critique Same-Sex Parenting (*so why is he doing it?)</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/13/45683</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 19 May 2013 14:07:11 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: StraightGrandmother</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/13/45683/comment-page-1#comment-127242</link>
		<dc:creator>StraightGrandmother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=45683#comment-127242</guid>
		<description>I think I am going to post this on all the Regnerus topics on Box Turtle. Let&#039;s say we &lt;b&gt;all work together&lt;/b&gt; and make a terrific website where we collect all this information on the Regnerus&#039; Study.

We crowd source this and everybody helps. I think what is missing is a lot of comments on the research by other Sociologists. We can all take a State and then call all the Universities in that State and speak to Sociologists there and ask them to provide their feedback on the research. 

Other people can work on collecting up all the direct quotes from Regnerus.

Oh and shouldn&#039;t we collect up all the places the data is being misreported? I saw for example a quote something like, &quot;Well this study proves that pedophilia is rampant with gays&quot;

And what about a website? Should we buy a domain name or should we use Blogger or Word press or something? If we hosted this separately how much would that cost us in bandwidth if a lot of people visited? Does anybody have idea on this? 

Let&#039;s set this up and organize this so it will be real easy for lawyers from our side to have a good reference point to jump off from. 

What else? Do you like this idea? Who will help? I don&#039;t mind if this is a part of Box Turtle and they are getting recognition for this. But I do think to do this right it is to big for the few guys at Box Turtle we need a lot more helping hands than just those guys. Whadda think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I am going to post this on all the Regnerus topics on Box Turtle. Let&#8217;s say we <b>all work together</b> and make a terrific website where we collect all this information on the Regnerus&#8217; Study.</p>
<p>We crowd source this and everybody helps. I think what is missing is a lot of comments on the research by other Sociologists. We can all take a State and then call all the Universities in that State and speak to Sociologists there and ask them to provide their feedback on the research. </p>
<p>Other people can work on collecting up all the direct quotes from Regnerus.</p>
<p>Oh and shouldn&#8217;t we collect up all the places the data is being misreported? I saw for example a quote something like, &#8220;Well this study proves that pedophilia is rampant with gays&#8221;</p>
<p>And what about a website? Should we buy a domain name or should we use Blogger or Word press or something? If we hosted this separately how much would that cost us in bandwidth if a lot of people visited? Does anybody have idea on this? </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s set this up and organize this so it will be real easy for lawyers from our side to have a good reference point to jump off from. </p>
<p>What else? Do you like this idea? Who will help? I don&#8217;t mind if this is a part of Box Turtle and they are getting recognition for this. But I do think to do this right it is to big for the few guys at Box Turtle we need a lot more helping hands than just those guys. Whadda think?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: StraightGrandmother</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/13/45683/comment-page-1#comment-127078</link>
		<dc:creator>StraightGrandmother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2012 12:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=45683#comment-127078</guid>
		<description>I think you should read the Scott Rose article-
http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/hold-noms-robert-george-accountable-for-the-anti-gay-regnerus-hit-job/politics/2012/06/18/41654

In it he alerts us to a new New Family Structures Study website which I have not even had a chance to look at, only opened up. We need all eyes on this new website.
http://www.familystructurestudies.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you should read the Scott Rose article-<br />
<a href="http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/hold-noms-robert-george-accountable-for-the-anti-gay-regnerus-hit-job/politics/2012/06/18/41654" rel="nofollow">http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/hold-noms-robert-george-accountable-for-the-anti-gay-regnerus-hit-job/politics/2012/06/18/41654</a></p>
<p>In it he alerts us to a new New Family Structures Study website which I have not even had a chance to look at, only opened up. We need all eyes on this new website.<br />
<a href="http://www.familystructurestudies.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.familystructurestudies.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Eric in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/13/45683/comment-page-1#comment-126475</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2012 07:11:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=45683#comment-126475</guid>
		<description>Thanks, SGM!  I just sent Dr. Amato an email.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, SGM!  I just sent Dr. Amato an email.</p>
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		<title>By: chiMaxx</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/13/45683/comment-page-1#comment-126430</link>
		<dc:creator>chiMaxx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=45683#comment-126430</guid>
		<description>Scott Rose: I think you make a good point in the link above, but you undercut how much people will be able to take your assertions seriously by using inflammatory phrases like &quot;NOMzi.&quot; 

Here&#039;s a more temperate but still highly critical look at how the Regnerus study was funded: http://worldofweirdthings.com/2012/06/13/how-think-tanks-could-buy-themselves-a-study/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott Rose: I think you make a good point in the link above, but you undercut how much people will be able to take your assertions seriously by using inflammatory phrases like &#8220;NOMzi.&#8221; </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a more temperate but still highly critical look at how the Regnerus study was funded: <a href="http://worldofweirdthings.com/2012/06/13/how-think-tanks-could-buy-themselves-a-study/" rel="nofollow">http://worldofweirdthings.com/2012/06/13/how-think-tanks-could-buy-themselves-a-study/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Virilene</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/13/45683/comment-page-1#comment-126405</link>
		<dc:creator>Virilene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=45683#comment-126405</guid>
		<description>Would be interesting to see some discussion/reportage of the accounting for that &gt;$750K worth of Far-Right money--how it was spent, how much of it found its way into the author&#039;s pocket.  Would be interesting to see what the going rate for academic integrity is these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would be interesting to see some discussion/reportage of the accounting for that &gt;$750K worth of Far-Right money&#8211;how it was spent, how much of it found its way into the author&#8217;s pocket.  Would be interesting to see what the going rate for academic integrity is these days.</p>
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		<title>By: StraightGrandmother</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/13/45683/comment-page-1#comment-126404</link>
		<dc:creator>StraightGrandmother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=45683#comment-126404</guid>
		<description>mikek- &lt;b&gt;PLEASE&lt;/b&gt; send an e-mail and ask for a correction to Titles of the response articles. Please do this.Please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mikek- <b>PLEASE</b> send an e-mail and ask for a correction to Titles of the response articles. Please do this.Please.</p>
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		<title>By: mikek</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/13/45683/comment-page-1#comment-126403</link>
		<dc:creator>mikek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=45683#comment-126403</guid>
		<description>Thank you, SG.  Keep at &#039;em!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, SG.  Keep at &#8216;em!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: StraightGrandmother</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/13/45683/comment-page-1#comment-126395</link>
		<dc:creator>StraightGrandmother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=45683#comment-126395</guid>
		<description>The Journal of Social Science Research is available on line and there are 2 reviews of the “Gays Make Bad Parents” research by Regnerus the reviews are by Drs. Amato and Eggebeen.
http://www.journals.elsevier.com/social-science-research/recent-articles/

Here are the titles to their reviews:
“What can we learn from studies of children raised by gay or lesbian parents.” by David J. Eggebeen

“The well-being of children with gay and lesbian parents.” by Paul R. Amato

Do you see how the title wrongly infers that it is the well-being of children raised by parent(s). The logical assumption is that it is mommy+mommy or daddy+daddy. In fact this research is completely on mommy+daddy and one of them has a gay fling.

Please consider writing to them and asking them to change the Title to their article so that it is clear to the public that the relationship of the parents was mommy+daddy.

Dr. Amato pxa6@psu.edu

Dr. Eggebeen e5x@psu.edu

The editor of this Journal is Dr. James White james.wright@ucf.edu

You have to agree that these titles are very misleading to the public. that [s] in the word “parents” needs to be defined so that the public is not mislead.

We can spend our time on gay blogs talking to each other or we can actually do something. So please write and ask that the titles be changed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Journal of Social Science Research is available on line and there are 2 reviews of the “Gays Make Bad Parents” research by Regnerus the reviews are by Drs. Amato and Eggebeen.<br />
<a href="http://www.journals.elsevier.com/social-science-research/recent-articles/" rel="nofollow">http://www.journals.elsevier.com/social-science-research/recent-articles/</a></p>
<p>Here are the titles to their reviews:<br />
“What can we learn from studies of children raised by gay or lesbian parents.” by David J. Eggebeen</p>
<p>“The well-being of children with gay and lesbian parents.” by Paul R. Amato</p>
<p>Do you see how the title wrongly infers that it is the well-being of children raised by parent(s). The logical assumption is that it is mommy+mommy or daddy+daddy. In fact this research is completely on mommy+daddy and one of them has a gay fling.</p>
<p>Please consider writing to them and asking them to change the Title to their article so that it is clear to the public that the relationship of the parents was mommy+daddy.</p>
<p>Dr. Amato <a href="mailto:pxa6@psu.edu">pxa6@psu.edu</a></p>
<p>Dr. Eggebeen <a href="mailto:e5x@psu.edu">e5x@psu.edu</a></p>
<p>The editor of this Journal is Dr. James White <a href="mailto:james.wright@ucf.edu">james.wright@ucf.edu</a></p>
<p>You have to agree that these titles are very misleading to the public. that [s] in the word “parents” needs to be defined so that the public is not mislead.</p>
<p>We can spend our time on gay blogs talking to each other or we can actually do something. So please write and ask that the titles be changed.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: StraightGrandmother</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/13/45683/comment-page-1#comment-126379</link>
		<dc:creator>StraightGrandmother</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:59:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=45683#comment-126379</guid>
		<description>1) I sent off my first e-mail to the entire Editorial Board (shown above the e-mail addresses) asking them to make clear to the public that the study is about mommy+daddy and one of them has a gay fling. I asked them to use exactly mommy+daddy as that will be very easy for the public to understand.

2) Dr out of Utah writes back and says we won&#039;t respond to StraightGrandmother&quot; either disclose who you are or get lost.

3)I write back and decline. 

4)I Get an e-mail from Darren Sherkat-

&quot;I am assuming by the list that you are addressing the editorial board of a journal on which I sit. I appreciate your concern with this issue, as I&#039;m sure everyone else does. You can rest assured that we&#039;re also concerned about publications which may stray from the path of objective social science. I do not speak for the board or for its editors, however I do know that you have been heard, and your opinion is welcome. I think others will take it from here.

thanks,

Sincerely,
Darren Sherkat&quot;
=================

5)I send another e-mail with about the statistic on Foster Care. Tara W showed the fact that women used to get their children taken away simply for being a lesbian and as late as 1995 Mary Ward&#039;s daughter was taken away- solely because Mary was a lesbian. Also Tara points out that a lot of gay headed families adopt children out of Foster Care,so those children experienced time in Foster Care. [Nobody responds]

6)Nobody responds to my foster care concern

7)I send out this e-mail shown in its entirety

Dear Editors and Advisory Editors of Journal of Social Science Research,


June 11, 2012 National Review Kathryn Jean Lopez


Lopez: How is it different than a child growing up with a single mother raising him or a single father raising her? Or a grandmother or . . .  there are all kinds of scenarios, of course? Why focus on same-sex households?

Regnerus: Yes, many scenarios are possible, and for kids whose mothers had a same-sex relationship, they were more likely to experience a variety of senarios, including living with grandparents. Why the focus on same-sex households? That was the key research question, basically. We wanted to know if the “no differences” thesis that has become almost an assumption in scholarly circles was true when put to the test of a large, nationally representative sample and a detailed survey of lots of different outcomes.

Lopez: So are young adults from step- and single-parent families much different? What is the gold standard?

Regnerus: Yes, adults who lived in step- and single-parent families exhibit a variety of differences, on average, &lt;b&gt;from the gold standard of a married mom and dad (who are still together when the respondent is an adult)&lt;/b&gt;. It calls into question, in fact, the common “wait till the kids are out of the house to divorce” mentality.


Lopez: What is the reigning academic view of children in same-sex families? How does this study depart from that view? Do you anticipate engagement from academia? 

Regnerus: No substantive differences, on things that matter. That’s been the emergent view. &lt;b&gt;This study definitely affirms that there is a gold standard.&lt;/b&gt; Yes, I anticipate engagement from scholars, and that is fine and welcome. I think there is plenty we can agree on.


(SGM- You REALLY should read this whole article at National Review.)

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/302455/mom-and-dad-make-difference-kathryn-jean-lopez

=============================================

June 12, 2012 National Review

Maggie Gallagher National Organization for Marriage-

Over at TNR, someone named Molly Redden openly and unashamedly calls for Mark Regnerus to be marginalized for daring to publish in a &lt;b&gt;peer-reviewed journal&lt;/b&gt; a new study of family structure which was reviewed by serious family scholars. This used to happen behind the scenes, not in public. It’s both weird and ugly. And Molly is so open about it! 

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/302634/professor-mark-regnerus-must-be-punished-maggie-gallagher#

=====================================================

Excuse me? I didn&#039;t see any Gold Standards? Is that what the Peer Review saw? Did peer review see in this data that a heterosexual mother and father produces Gold Standard Children and married gay and lesbian couples are what? Silver? Bronze maybe? Is that what the research what the data proves?
~SGM 

8) Surprisingly(?) after the &lt;b&gt;Gold Standard&lt;/b&gt; quotations were sent out I got an e-mail back from Dr. Wright. This is the same Dr Wright that Scott Rose points out has written what a threat to Marriage is if same sex couples marry. Who has also written about an promoted State laws for a separate Marriage License a &quot;Covenant Marriage License.&quot; Below is the e-mail I received from Dr. Wright.
==================
Dear SGM,
 
You and all other critics and commentators on the Regnerus study are invited to prepare a serious science-based summary of your concerns and issues and submit that for review and possible publication in a future issue of Social Science Research, which is the normal way in which controversies surrounding scientific papers and findings are aired and resolved.  In the meantime, may I please request that you limit your communications just to me and the author?  My editorial board is not directly responsible for the publication of the Regnerus paper so copying them on your communications does not accomplish anything worthwhile. 

Thank you,

Jim Wright
Department of Sociology
University of Central Florida
407-823-5083
====================

I think we would all be well served to read the rebuttals to the research. Interesting to me was the Amato review when he gives full disclosure and says he was a paid consultant for 2 days designing the questionnaire. I think Scott Rose raises a good question WHO were the Peer Reviewers?

Below you have to search through a little bit to find the rebuttals.
http://www.journals.elsevier.com/social-science-research/recent-articles/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) I sent off my first e-mail to the entire Editorial Board (shown above the e-mail addresses) asking them to make clear to the public that the study is about mommy+daddy and one of them has a gay fling. I asked them to use exactly mommy+daddy as that will be very easy for the public to understand.</p>
<p>2) Dr out of Utah writes back and says we won&#8217;t respond to StraightGrandmother&#8221; either disclose who you are or get lost.</p>
<p>3)I write back and decline. </p>
<p>4)I Get an e-mail from Darren Sherkat-</p>
<p>&#8220;I am assuming by the list that you are addressing the editorial board of a journal on which I sit. I appreciate your concern with this issue, as I&#8217;m sure everyone else does. You can rest assured that we&#8217;re also concerned about publications which may stray from the path of objective social science. I do not speak for the board or for its editors, however I do know that you have been heard, and your opinion is welcome. I think others will take it from here.</p>
<p>thanks,</p>
<p>Sincerely,<br />
Darren Sherkat&#8221;<br />
=================</p>
<p>5)I send another e-mail with about the statistic on Foster Care. Tara W showed the fact that women used to get their children taken away simply for being a lesbian and as late as 1995 Mary Ward&#8217;s daughter was taken away- solely because Mary was a lesbian. Also Tara points out that a lot of gay headed families adopt children out of Foster Care,so those children experienced time in Foster Care. [Nobody responds]</p>
<p>6)Nobody responds to my foster care concern</p>
<p>7)I send out this e-mail shown in its entirety</p>
<p>Dear Editors and Advisory Editors of Journal of Social Science Research,</p>
<p>June 11, 2012 National Review Kathryn Jean Lopez</p>
<p>Lopez: How is it different than a child growing up with a single mother raising him or a single father raising her? Or a grandmother or . . .  there are all kinds of scenarios, of course? Why focus on same-sex households?</p>
<p>Regnerus: Yes, many scenarios are possible, and for kids whose mothers had a same-sex relationship, they were more likely to experience a variety of senarios, including living with grandparents. Why the focus on same-sex households? That was the key research question, basically. We wanted to know if the “no differences” thesis that has become almost an assumption in scholarly circles was true when put to the test of a large, nationally representative sample and a detailed survey of lots of different outcomes.</p>
<p>Lopez: So are young adults from step- and single-parent families much different? What is the gold standard?</p>
<p>Regnerus: Yes, adults who lived in step- and single-parent families exhibit a variety of differences, on average, <b>from the gold standard of a married mom and dad (who are still together when the respondent is an adult)</b>. It calls into question, in fact, the common “wait till the kids are out of the house to divorce” mentality.</p>
<p>Lopez: What is the reigning academic view of children in same-sex families? How does this study depart from that view? Do you anticipate engagement from academia? </p>
<p>Regnerus: No substantive differences, on things that matter. That’s been the emergent view. <b>This study definitely affirms that there is a gold standard.</b> Yes, I anticipate engagement from scholars, and that is fine and welcome. I think there is plenty we can agree on.</p>
<p>(SGM- You REALLY should read this whole article at National Review.)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/302455/mom-and-dad-make-difference-kathryn-jean-lopez" rel="nofollow">http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/302455/mom-and-dad-make-difference-kathryn-jean-lopez</a></p>
<p>=============================================</p>
<p>June 12, 2012 National Review</p>
<p>Maggie Gallagher National Organization for Marriage-</p>
<p>Over at TNR, someone named Molly Redden openly and unashamedly calls for Mark Regnerus to be marginalized for daring to publish in a <b>peer-reviewed journal</b> a new study of family structure which was reviewed by serious family scholars. This used to happen behind the scenes, not in public. It’s both weird and ugly. And Molly is so open about it! </p>
<p><a href="http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/302634/professor-mark-regnerus-must-be-punished-maggie-gallagher#" rel="nofollow">http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/302634/professor-mark-regnerus-must-be-punished-maggie-gallagher#</a></p>
<p>=====================================================</p>
<p>Excuse me? I didn&#8217;t see any Gold Standards? Is that what the Peer Review saw? Did peer review see in this data that a heterosexual mother and father produces Gold Standard Children and married gay and lesbian couples are what? Silver? Bronze maybe? Is that what the research what the data proves?<br />
~SGM </p>
<p>8) Surprisingly(?) after the <b>Gold Standard</b> quotations were sent out I got an e-mail back from Dr. Wright. This is the same Dr Wright that Scott Rose points out has written what a threat to Marriage is if same sex couples marry. Who has also written about an promoted State laws for a separate Marriage License a &#8220;Covenant Marriage License.&#8221; Below is the e-mail I received from Dr. Wright.<br />
==================<br />
Dear SGM,</p>
<p>You and all other critics and commentators on the Regnerus study are invited to prepare a serious science-based summary of your concerns and issues and submit that for review and possible publication in a future issue of Social Science Research, which is the normal way in which controversies surrounding scientific papers and findings are aired and resolved.  In the meantime, may I please request that you limit your communications just to me and the author?  My editorial board is not directly responsible for the publication of the Regnerus paper so copying them on your communications does not accomplish anything worthwhile. </p>
<p>Thank you,</p>
<p>Jim Wright<br />
Department of Sociology<br />
University of Central Florida<br />
407-823-5083<br />
====================</p>
<p>I think we would all be well served to read the rebuttals to the research. Interesting to me was the Amato review when he gives full disclosure and says he was a paid consultant for 2 days designing the questionnaire. I think Scott Rose raises a good question WHO were the Peer Reviewers?</p>
<p>Below you have to search through a little bit to find the rebuttals.<br />
<a href="http://www.journals.elsevier.com/social-science-research/recent-articles/" rel="nofollow">http://www.journals.elsevier.com/social-science-research/recent-articles/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/13/45683/comment-page-1#comment-126373</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=45683#comment-126373</guid>
		<description>Andrew,
I&#039;m sorry, my earlier comment about Dr. Regnerus deserving &quot;a hearty pat on the back&quot; was really meant to be sarcastic. Dr. Regnerus only admits that his study doesn&#039;t prove what he claimed in the study itself under great pressure, and even then he&#039;s only admitting it in a very limited way, and only to specific audiences. To other audiences he keeps repeating his bogus claims as though they were valid. 

I could have made it clearer that I was being sarcastic, but, with hindsight, I realize this isn&#039;t something that should be joked about. Regnerus has a history of valuing ideology more than facts in his published work, and sarcasm risks being misread as letting him off the hook.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew,<br />
I&#8217;m sorry, my earlier comment about Dr. Regnerus deserving &#8220;a hearty pat on the back&#8221; was really meant to be sarcastic. Dr. Regnerus only admits that his study doesn&#8217;t prove what he claimed in the study itself under great pressure, and even then he&#8217;s only admitting it in a very limited way, and only to specific audiences. To other audiences he keeps repeating his bogus claims as though they were valid. </p>
<p>I could have made it clearer that I was being sarcastic, but, with hindsight, I realize this isn&#8217;t something that should be joked about. Regnerus has a history of valuing ideology more than facts in his published work, and sarcasm risks being misread as letting him off the hook.</p>
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