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	<title>Comments on: Catholic Priest/Psychologist: It&#8217;s The Kids&#8217; Fault (UPDATED)</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/08/30/48209</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Jarred</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/08/30/48209/comment-page-1#comment-138696</link>
		<dc:creator>Jarred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2012 14:12:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48209#comment-138696</guid>
		<description>E. Manhattan:  If you cannot make your case without making derogatory insinuations about me personally, please don&#039;t address me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>E. Manhattan:  If you cannot make your case without making derogatory insinuations about me personally, please don&#8217;t address me.</p>
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		<title>By: E. Manhattan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/08/30/48209/comment-page-1#comment-138446</link>
		<dc:creator>E. Manhattan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2012 14:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48209#comment-138446</guid>
		<description>JFC said: &quot;and not have the cognitive and emotional maturity capable of giving consent to sex&quot;

Please do remember that I was discussing young, underage men who propositioned ME.  And I said no.  These were not young men &quot;giving consent&quot; to sex, or &quot;willing to have&quot; sex.   These were underage strangers who had seen me at public Gay Liberation events, and who had taken the initiative to track me down and insist on having sex with me, with no encouragement at all from me.

Humans are certainly able to decide whether or not they want to have sex before they are 18, no matter what psychologists may witter on about.  Evolution made sure of that.  

I had sex with other teenagers when I was a teenager, and we all thought sex was great.   And if surveys can be believed, the majority of the commenters here either had sex with other people or wanted sex with other people when they were teenagers.  So I understood the younger men when I was in my early 20s, I was just not interested. 

And if you tend to believe whatever theory is current in the mental-health industry, about sex or anything else, you would benefit from taking some logic classes and adopting a more skeptical mindset.   They have a very long history of getting it wrong, then coming up with a new theory and saying &quot;no, no, we got it right this time&quot; - and then finding out that they were very wrong again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JFC said: &#8220;and not have the cognitive and emotional maturity capable of giving consent to sex&#8221;</p>
<p>Please do remember that I was discussing young, underage men who propositioned ME.  And I said no.  These were not young men &#8220;giving consent&#8221; to sex, or &#8220;willing to have&#8221; sex.   These were underage strangers who had seen me at public Gay Liberation events, and who had taken the initiative to track me down and insist on having sex with me, with no encouragement at all from me.</p>
<p>Humans are certainly able to decide whether or not they want to have sex before they are 18, no matter what psychologists may witter on about.  Evolution made sure of that.  </p>
<p>I had sex with other teenagers when I was a teenager, and we all thought sex was great.   And if surveys can be believed, the majority of the commenters here either had sex with other people or wanted sex with other people when they were teenagers.  So I understood the younger men when I was in my early 20s, I was just not interested. </p>
<p>And if you tend to believe whatever theory is current in the mental-health industry, about sex or anything else, you would benefit from taking some logic classes and adopting a more skeptical mindset.   They have a very long history of getting it wrong, then coming up with a new theory and saying &#8220;no, no, we got it right this time&#8221; &#8211; and then finding out that they were very wrong again.</p>
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		<title>By: BSL</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/08/30/48209/comment-page-1#comment-138442</link>
		<dc:creator>BSL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2012 14:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48209#comment-138442</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll preface my comments by stating that the opinions offered by Fr. Groeschel are horrific. When I heard a Catholic priest had made these comments I was disturbed. Then, I heard it was Fr. Groeschel and things seemed to fall into place a bit.  I have seen him on EWTN off and on...for years. I saw him recently on one or two occasions again...after an illness. I was shocked at the changes in the loss of his ability to articulate thoughts. He was frail, appeared almost incoherent at times and if he was a TV or Hollywood personality would likely have a &quot;handler.&quot;  I had a great respect for the man...and there is no positive spin to put on this situation.  Either he made these comments with full use of his faculties...a very sad situation. Or
he is suffering from onset of Alzheimers or Dementia.  If I had to choose the lesser of two evils, I suppose I&#039;d choose the latter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll preface my comments by stating that the opinions offered by Fr. Groeschel are horrific. When I heard a Catholic priest had made these comments I was disturbed. Then, I heard it was Fr. Groeschel and things seemed to fall into place a bit.  I have seen him on EWTN off and on&#8230;for years. I saw him recently on one or two occasions again&#8230;after an illness. I was shocked at the changes in the loss of his ability to articulate thoughts. He was frail, appeared almost incoherent at times and if he was a TV or Hollywood personality would likely have a &#8220;handler.&#8221;  I had a great respect for the man&#8230;and there is no positive spin to put on this situation.  Either he made these comments with full use of his faculties&#8230;a very sad situation. Or<br />
he is suffering from onset of Alzheimers or Dementia.  If I had to choose the lesser of two evils, I suppose I&#8217;d choose the latter.</p>
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		<title>By: JCF</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/08/30/48209/comment-page-1#comment-138399</link>
		<dc:creator>JCF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2012 04:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48209#comment-138399</guid>
		<description>&quot;If I had decided to have sex with them, though, I can’t see any ethical barrier – &lt;b&gt;they most definitely knew what they were doing&lt;/b&gt;, and consent was an issue with me, not with them, since they were definitely the initiators.&quot;

With a 14 year-old?! That&#039;s crazy. It&#039;s illegal AND unethical. The rational decision-making part of the brain is the LAST to develop. A teenager can be 6&#039;4&quot; 200 lbs---or be able to solve problems in quantum mechanics---and not have the cognitive and emotional maturity capable of giving consent to sex. Do NOT Go There---whether they&#039;re hairy or not!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If I had decided to have sex with them, though, I can’t see any ethical barrier – <b>they most definitely knew what they were doing</b>, and consent was an issue with me, not with them, since they were definitely the initiators.&#8221;</p>
<p>With a 14 year-old?! That&#8217;s crazy. It&#8217;s illegal AND unethical. The rational decision-making part of the brain is the LAST to develop. A teenager can be 6&#8217;4&#8243; 200 lbs&#8212;or be able to solve problems in quantum mechanics&#8212;and not have the cognitive and emotional maturity capable of giving consent to sex. Do NOT Go There&#8212;whether they&#8217;re hairy or not!</p>
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		<title>By: jerry</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/08/30/48209/comment-page-1#comment-138380</link>
		<dc:creator>jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 22:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48209#comment-138380</guid>
		<description>Timothy, I was going to make a comment I hoped would be humorous about you running down the street in your underwear, but you put the link if for the story and after reading the story I didn&#039;t think my intended comment would have been funny at all.  Thanks for saving me from embarrassment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy, I was going to make a comment I hoped would be humorous about you running down the street in your underwear, but you put the link if for the story and after reading the story I didn&#8217;t think my intended comment would have been funny at all.  Thanks for saving me from embarrassment.</p>
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		<title>By: E. Manhattan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/08/30/48209/comment-page-1#comment-138372</link>
		<dc:creator>E. Manhattan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 21:08:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48209#comment-138372</guid>
		<description>Jarred, I see that you DO live in an Ozzie and Harriet world, where unjust accusations are always found out, and gay men are always given the benefit of full due process. 

I have lived for many decades in a very different America - it&#039;s full of unpleasant facts.   In the America I live in, Gay people are rarely treated with fairness when they are accused of sexual crimes.   And many Gay men have ended up in prison or  have been beaten, tortured and/or killed, or have had their houses burned - just because they were gay, and someone else imagined or pretended that the gay guy had committed a social or legal crime.  I know that these things are  incomprehensible to you, but I have seen them happen to people around me.  And these things definitely still happen in many parts of the U.S.A., including parts of New York - they are not ancient history.  

I wish you well, and I hope you make sure you stay in sheltered communities where everyone knows you, so that you can remain safe from the real America.   The one in your head is much nicer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jarred, I see that you DO live in an Ozzie and Harriet world, where unjust accusations are always found out, and gay men are always given the benefit of full due process. </p>
<p>I have lived for many decades in a very different America &#8211; it&#8217;s full of unpleasant facts.   In the America I live in, Gay people are rarely treated with fairness when they are accused of sexual crimes.   And many Gay men have ended up in prison or  have been beaten, tortured and/or killed, or have had their houses burned &#8211; just because they were gay, and someone else imagined or pretended that the gay guy had committed a social or legal crime.  I know that these things are  incomprehensible to you, but I have seen them happen to people around me.  And these things definitely still happen in many parts of the U.S.A., including parts of New York &#8211; they are not ancient history.  </p>
<p>I wish you well, and I hope you make sure you stay in sheltered communities where everyone knows you, so that you can remain safe from the real America.   The one in your head is much nicer.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris McCoy</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/08/30/48209/comment-page-1#comment-138355</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris McCoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 19:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48209#comment-138355</guid>
		<description>Jarred said:
&lt;blockquote&gt; Therefore, such interactions should remain prohibited, no matter how &quot;willing&quot; the minor is.&lt;blockquote&gt;
The problem with this argument is that it ignores the reality of human sexuality.
Also, the significant variability in what constitutes a &quot;minor&quot;, a shown in the lack of uniformity in the Age of Consent laws, not only in the US, but around the world, should serve as a reminder that not all adult/&quot;minor&quot; relationships are automatically non-consensual.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jarred said:</p>
<blockquote><p> Therefore, such interactions should remain prohibited, no matter how &#8220;willing&#8221; the minor is.<br />
<blockquote>
The problem with this argument is that it ignores the reality of human sexuality.<br />
Also, the significant variability in what constitutes a &#8220;minor&#8221;, a shown in the lack of uniformity in the Age of Consent laws, not only in the US, but around the world, should serve as a reminder that not all adult/&#8221;minor&#8221; relationships are automatically non-consensual.</p></blockquote>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: Jarred</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/08/30/48209/comment-page-1#comment-138330</link>
		<dc:creator>Jarred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 15:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48209#comment-138330</guid>
		<description>And in all seriousness, if you think people are automatically going to believe a group of boys who make accusations against a man, I&#039;m guessing you haven&#039;t looked into what happens in most cases of abuse, sexual harassment, and sexual assault.  A great number of people bend over backward trying to give the accused abuser the benefit of the doubt and even drag the alleged victims through painful scrutiny and even mud-slinging.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And in all seriousness, if you think people are automatically going to believe a group of boys who make accusations against a man, I&#8217;m guessing you haven&#8217;t looked into what happens in most cases of abuse, sexual harassment, and sexual assault.  A great number of people bend over backward trying to give the accused abuser the benefit of the doubt and even drag the alleged victims through painful scrutiny and even mud-slinging.</p>
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		<title>By: Jarred</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/08/30/48209/comment-page-1#comment-138328</link>
		<dc:creator>Jarred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 15:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48209#comment-138328</guid>
		<description>Jerry&#039;s uncle, &lt;i&gt;did&lt;/i&gt; have a choice.  He could have refused.  Yes, Jerry and his friends might have told awful lies about them, but they &lt;i&gt;would&lt;/i&gt; have been lies.  Because of that fact, there would have been no evidence, and I do believe we live in a society where an accusation needs to be backed up with evidence.

You are assuming that I would believe an unsupported accusation.  You make that assumption in error.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jerry&#8217;s uncle, <i>did</i> have a choice.  He could have refused.  Yes, Jerry and his friends might have told awful lies about them, but they <i>would</i> have been lies.  Because of that fact, there would have been no evidence, and I do believe we live in a society where an accusation needs to be backed up with evidence.</p>
<p>You are assuming that I would believe an unsupported accusation.  You make that assumption in error.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/08/30/48209/comment-page-1#comment-138327</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 15:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48209#comment-138327</guid>
		<description>Didn&#039;t Larry Kramer made similar statements in an essay in his book Reports from the Holocaust? I seem to remember that from back in the Day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t Larry Kramer made similar statements in an essay in his book Reports from the Holocaust? I seem to remember that from back in the Day.</p>
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