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	<title>Comments on: Robert Gagnon capitulates to Nardelli</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/07/48503</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Ben in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/07/48503/comment-page-1#comment-139687</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2012 16:01:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Microscopic quibble, William.

4th century, not 3rd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Microscopic quibble, William.</p>
<p>4th century, not 3rd.</p>
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		<title>By: William O'Donnell</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/07/48503/comment-page-1#comment-139475</link>
		<dc:creator>William O'Donnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2012 08:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48503#comment-139475</guid>
		<description>I will reply to the task and article at hand. This is about the published work of Gagnon and Nardelli.  I do not understand why there is a tangential movement to Robert George????  All analogies should remain aside. But please allow me one aside.
 
Ten years ago I sent an email to a Roman Catholic Theologian at CTU and an adviser to my Master&#039;s work there to fill me in on her thoughts of the Princeton educated, self-appointed, god-head, Gagnon.  

She, Sister Barbara Bowe, RSCJ, ThD, (Harvard University) - A student of Helmut Kester and Krister Stendahl) replied in her email that &quot;no one listens to him[Gagnon]&quot;, and his career will go far &quot;with his church.&quot;

Sister Barbara is deceased and she is half right on all accounts:

1. No one really listens to him.
2. His career will go far.

Whatever you glean from her statements, which I admire, she was full aware that I turned to science, abandoned the Catholic church (as I do not possess the gift of faith), and focused my mind to Molecular Biology.

What does this mean?  I repeat Gagnon&#039;s formal charge to all his foes, like Jean-Fabrice Nardelli:

&quot;He is not a Biblical Scholar.&quot;

There is no record that Nardelli made the above-mentions claim!  

From the outset of his Review, Nardelli only wished to tackle Gagnon&#039;s review of science, his review of Greco-Roman studies, and his review of Pauline texts. 

One must remember that Paul was a Jew/convert &#039;christian.&#039; Paul should never be praised for bringing his Jewish, god-fearing, misogynist life into Christian history. BUT DON&#039;T WE ALL LOVE THE TYRANT? HE TELLS US HOW TO LIVE A BETTER LIFE!  

However, Christianity was/and was not unified until the 3rd Century (the Tyrant Constantine and the Council of Nicea).

GAGNON can make whatever theological conclusions he wants BASED ONLY ON HIS ABILITY TO INTERPRET SCRIPTURE - Princeton University said he could.


Gagnon is NOT, however, allowed to make claims beyond his theological scope (a worthless study I might add, except to vilify and falsely educate the ignorant, which he does daily in the classroom and on his website - where he is a politician).  


In short: Gagnon is not a scientist, he is not a mathematician, he is not statistician, he is not a molecular biologist, he is not cellular biologist, he is not a psychologist, and he IS NO Historian (Nardelli has shown this).

Gagnon is an online, Facebook creature, who uses his Princeton work to tell the world how it should think, act, behave, and grovel at the knees of his own god, who created nothing from the beginning of time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will reply to the task and article at hand. This is about the published work of Gagnon and Nardelli.  I do not understand why there is a tangential movement to Robert George????  All analogies should remain aside. But please allow me one aside.</p>
<p>Ten years ago I sent an email to a Roman Catholic Theologian at CTU and an adviser to my Master&#8217;s work there to fill me in on her thoughts of the Princeton educated, self-appointed, god-head, Gagnon.  </p>
<p>She, Sister Barbara Bowe, RSCJ, ThD, (Harvard University) &#8211; A student of Helmut Kester and Krister Stendahl) replied in her email that &#8220;no one listens to him[Gagnon]&#8220;, and his career will go far &#8220;with his church.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sister Barbara is deceased and she is half right on all accounts:</p>
<p>1. No one really listens to him.<br />
2. His career will go far.</p>
<p>Whatever you glean from her statements, which I admire, she was full aware that I turned to science, abandoned the Catholic church (as I do not possess the gift of faith), and focused my mind to Molecular Biology.</p>
<p>What does this mean?  I repeat Gagnon&#8217;s formal charge to all his foes, like Jean-Fabrice Nardelli:</p>
<p>&#8220;He is not a Biblical Scholar.&#8221;</p>
<p>There is no record that Nardelli made the above-mentions claim!  </p>
<p>From the outset of his Review, Nardelli only wished to tackle Gagnon&#8217;s review of science, his review of Greco-Roman studies, and his review of Pauline texts. </p>
<p>One must remember that Paul was a Jew/convert &#8216;christian.&#8217; Paul should never be praised for bringing his Jewish, god-fearing, misogynist life into Christian history. BUT DON&#8217;T WE ALL LOVE THE TYRANT? HE TELLS US HOW TO LIVE A BETTER LIFE!  </p>
<p>However, Christianity was/and was not unified until the 3rd Century (the Tyrant Constantine and the Council of Nicea).</p>
<p>GAGNON can make whatever theological conclusions he wants BASED ONLY ON HIS ABILITY TO INTERPRET SCRIPTURE &#8211; Princeton University said he could.</p>
<p>Gagnon is NOT, however, allowed to make claims beyond his theological scope (a worthless study I might add, except to vilify and falsely educate the ignorant, which he does daily in the classroom and on his website &#8211; where he is a politician).  </p>
<p>In short: Gagnon is not a scientist, he is not a mathematician, he is not statistician, he is not a molecular biologist, he is not cellular biologist, he is not a psychologist, and he IS NO Historian (Nardelli has shown this).</p>
<p>Gagnon is an online, Facebook creature, who uses his Princeton work to tell the world how it should think, act, behave, and grovel at the knees of his own god, who created nothing from the beginning of time.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Rush</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/07/48503/comment-page-1#comment-139361</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Rush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2012 00:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48503#comment-139361</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s interesting that Robert George has been brought up in this discussion. Several times in the past I&#039;ve thought that Gagnon is a Robert George wannabe*. They both seem to have one exceptionally strong area of intelligence:

Several years ago I watched a video debate between George and someone whose name I can&#039;t remember. I don&#039;t even remember the subject. But I do remember listening to George, and concluding that he had an exceptional ability to absorb, retain, and easily recall vast amounts of information. But in my view, he was woefully lacking in the intelligence required to properly connect the dots in a rational way (or maybe he was just unwilling). I felt he was using his command of information-recall to perpetrate a snow-job. And that&#039;s how I see Robert Gagnon.

*Robert Gagnon is Associate Professor of New Testament at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, whereas Robert George is McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence at Princeton University.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting that Robert George has been brought up in this discussion. Several times in the past I&#8217;ve thought that Gagnon is a Robert George wannabe*. They both seem to have one exceptionally strong area of intelligence:</p>
<p>Several years ago I watched a video debate between George and someone whose name I can&#8217;t remember. I don&#8217;t even remember the subject. But I do remember listening to George, and concluding that he had an exceptional ability to absorb, retain, and easily recall vast amounts of information. But in my view, he was woefully lacking in the intelligence required to properly connect the dots in a rational way (or maybe he was just unwilling). I felt he was using his command of information-recall to perpetrate a snow-job. And that&#8217;s how I see Robert Gagnon.</p>
<p>*Robert Gagnon is Associate Professor of New Testament at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, whereas Robert George is McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence at Princeton University.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnAGJ</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/07/48503/comment-page-1#comment-139338</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnAGJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2012 19:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48503#comment-139338</guid>
		<description>Timothy, Timothy, Timothy.  Tsk-tsk.  Are you baiting the man?  Melikes!  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy, Timothy, Timothy.  Tsk-tsk.  Are you baiting the man?  Melikes!  :)</p>
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		<title>By: Soren456</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/07/48503/comment-page-1#comment-139315</link>
		<dc:creator>Soren456</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2012 15:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48503#comment-139315</guid>
		<description>&quot;I’ve never encountered someone so convinced of his theological and intellectual superiority, yet transparent in his lack of logic or consistent thought.&quot;

FWIW, makes me think of Newt Gingrich, whose effortless falsehoods cover history, politics AND theology. Is Gagnon the Gingrich of theology?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’ve never encountered someone so convinced of his theological and intellectual superiority, yet transparent in his lack of logic or consistent thought.&#8221;</p>
<p>FWIW, makes me think of Newt Gingrich, whose effortless falsehoods cover history, politics AND theology. Is Gagnon the Gingrich of theology?</p>
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		<title>By: Ben in Oakland</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/07/48503/comment-page-1#comment-139311</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben in Oakland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2012 15:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48503#comment-139311</guid>
		<description>&quot;Watching him jump through hoops to simultaneously believe completely contradictory teachings and seeing the steps he takes to try and support his positions leaves me laughing out loud.&quot;

said the Red Queen in Alice, &quot;I can believe six impossible things before breakfast.&quot;

From the encyclopedia of psychology Freud on projection and reaction formations.&quot;A type of defense mechanism whereby unacceptable, anxiety-causing emotions or impulses are masked by an exaggerated version of the opposite emotions or impulses.&quot;

exactly who is the Well Read Queen?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Watching him jump through hoops to simultaneously believe completely contradictory teachings and seeing the steps he takes to try and support his positions leaves me laughing out loud.&#8221;</p>
<p>said the Red Queen in Alice, &#8220;I can believe six impossible things before breakfast.&#8221;</p>
<p>From the encyclopedia of psychology Freud on projection and reaction formations.&#8221;A type of defense mechanism whereby unacceptable, anxiety-causing emotions or impulses are masked by an exaggerated version of the opposite emotions or impulses.&#8221;</p>
<p>exactly who is the Well Read Queen?</p>
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		<title>By: Hunter</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/07/48503/comment-page-1#comment-139286</link>
		<dc:creator>Hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2012 11:33:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48503#comment-139286</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not seriously challenging your choice of Gagnon -- happily, in this instance, I&#039;m not all that familiar with this writings, but he&#039;s not that far out of the fold on that score, from what I do know.

I have, however, done my own dissection of one of George&#039;s pieces, and logic doesn&#039;t play a large role.  The one I remember was a very elaborate &quot;argument&quot; that was completely circular, starting off with Catholic doctrine on marriage and ending with -- Catholic doctrine on marriage.

When it comes right down to it, they&#039;re both hacks, they&#039;re both intellectually dishonest, and I doubt that either of them could reason his way through a grocery store without help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not seriously challenging your choice of Gagnon &#8212; happily, in this instance, I&#8217;m not all that familiar with this writings, but he&#8217;s not that far out of the fold on that score, from what I do know.</p>
<p>I have, however, done my own dissection of one of George&#8217;s pieces, and logic doesn&#8217;t play a large role.  The one I remember was a very elaborate &#8220;argument&#8221; that was completely circular, starting off with Catholic doctrine on marriage and ending with &#8212; Catholic doctrine on marriage.</p>
<p>When it comes right down to it, they&#8217;re both hacks, they&#8217;re both intellectually dishonest, and I doubt that either of them could reason his way through a grocery store without help.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/07/48503/comment-page-1#comment-139229</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2012 00:54:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48503#comment-139229</guid>
		<description>Hunter, I appreciate the challenge.  And I have to say that you presented a good contender.  (you get bonus points for that)

But George&#039;s logic at least has enough consistency to have a veneer of thoughtfulness.  If not, we would not so enjoy when Rob Tisinai illustrates its inconsistency.

With Gagnon it really requires a deep and abiding faith (in Gagnon) to get through the first few paragraphs without laughing.

So while I think Robert George comes close, I gotta stick with Robert Gagnon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hunter, I appreciate the challenge.  And I have to say that you presented a good contender.  (you get bonus points for that)</p>
<p>But George&#8217;s logic at least has enough consistency to have a veneer of thoughtfulness.  If not, we would not so enjoy when Rob Tisinai illustrates its inconsistency.</p>
<p>With Gagnon it really requires a deep and abiding faith (in Gagnon) to get through the first few paragraphs without laughing.</p>
<p>So while I think Robert George comes close, I gotta stick with Robert Gagnon.</p>
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		<title>By: Hunter</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/07/48503/comment-page-1#comment-139226</link>
		<dc:creator>Hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2012 00:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48503#comment-139226</guid>
		<description>&quot;I’ve never encountered someone so convinced of his theological and intellectual superiority, yet transparent in his lack of logic or consistent thought.&quot;

Robert P. George</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’ve never encountered someone so convinced of his theological and intellectual superiority, yet transparent in his lack of logic or consistent thought.&#8221;</p>
<p>Robert P. George</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Miner</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/07/48503/comment-page-1#comment-139213</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Miner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2012 23:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48503#comment-139213</guid>
		<description>By no means.  He&#039;s just busy, and the level of discourse at which he &amp; Nardelli are operating is one in which very different response times are appropriate, as compared to the blogosphere.  20 days is FOREVER in blog-land; all the other trolls will already have moved on to other topics.   20 days is as nothing for scholars who have to be in command of enormous amounts of material in very obscure languages from 20-30 centuries in the past.  I spoke to him at the Conversation w/Robinson in San Diego, and I think BTB and I are both too familiar with Gagnon&#039;s character and his commitments to doubt that future anti-Nardelli material is forthcoming, in due time.  The nub of the matter is that Gagnon is coming from a place of moral law, in which NO MATTER HOW MANY PEOPLE DO IT (and how much they enjoy it!) it&#039;s still sin.  So Nardelli is free to multiply examples of homosexy behavior from cultures all over the world; they don&#039;t move Gagnon an inch.
---Mark Miner, a fan of both Gagnon and Nardelli, and eagerly awaiting the next installment!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By no means.  He&#8217;s just busy, and the level of discourse at which he &amp; Nardelli are operating is one in which very different response times are appropriate, as compared to the blogosphere.  20 days is FOREVER in blog-land; all the other trolls will already have moved on to other topics.   20 days is as nothing for scholars who have to be in command of enormous amounts of material in very obscure languages from 20-30 centuries in the past.  I spoke to him at the Conversation w/Robinson in San Diego, and I think BTB and I are both too familiar with Gagnon&#8217;s character and his commitments to doubt that future anti-Nardelli material is forthcoming, in due time.  The nub of the matter is that Gagnon is coming from a place of moral law, in which NO MATTER HOW MANY PEOPLE DO IT (and how much they enjoy it!) it&#8217;s still sin.  So Nardelli is free to multiply examples of homosexy behavior from cultures all over the world; they don&#8217;t move Gagnon an inch.<br />
&#8212;Mark Miner, a fan of both Gagnon and Nardelli, and eagerly awaiting the next installment!</p>
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