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	<title>Comments on: Barney Frank, the ultimate partisan hack.</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/11/48601</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Neon Genesis</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/11/48601/comment-page-2#comment-151780</link>
		<dc:creator>Neon Genesis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2012 02:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48601#comment-151780</guid>
		<description>I think it would be more productive for gay conservatives to support third parties like the Libertarian Party instead of the GOP.  While I don&#039;t agree with libertarians on most economic issues, they&#039;re at least consistent when it comes to gay rights and are more gay friendly.  The GOP is a sinking ship and third party is the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it would be more productive for gay conservatives to support third parties like the Libertarian Party instead of the GOP.  While I don&#8217;t agree with libertarians on most economic issues, they&#8217;re at least consistent when it comes to gay rights and are more gay friendly.  The GOP is a sinking ship and third party is the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Neon Genesis</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/11/48601/comment-page-2#comment-151770</link>
		<dc:creator>Neon Genesis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2012 01:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48601#comment-151770</guid>
		<description>Timothy, I think it&#039;s a bit of a double standard for you to bash Barney Frank for insulting the LCR but then fill your entire commentary with nothing but derogatory insults towards Barney Frank.  I think there are lots of reasons to criticize Barney Frank for, such as his watering down of ENDA and some of his ignorant statements about the trans community, but this isn&#039;t one of those issues.  An Uncle Tom is someone who defends a bigot at the expense of their own rights for the sake of appeasement and in this regards, gay Republican groups like the LCR and GoProud fit that description perfectly.  

You talk about Barney Frank being a partisan hack and call on us to support Republican gay candidates, but for the life of me, I cannot for the life of me think of a single instance where the LCR supported a gay-friendly Democrat over a homophobic Republican.  While I respect the LCR for their role in repealing DADT, for the vast majority of their history, the LCR have almost always put economic issues over human rights.  While I agree we need more gay-friendly voices in the GOP, voting for a candidate solely because of their sexual orientation is nothing but identity politics and a form of partisanship in itself.  I&#039;m not going to vote for a candidate just because they&#039;re a Democrat if they don&#039;t support human rights.  Likewise, I&#039;m not going to vote for a Republican just because they&#039;re gay if I don&#039;t agree with the policies they support.  If we truly believe that a person&#039;s sexual orientation doesn&#039;t matter, then we should vote for candidates because we believe in the policies they support, not because of what gender they love and that&#039;s what true bipartisanship is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy, I think it&#8217;s a bit of a double standard for you to bash Barney Frank for insulting the LCR but then fill your entire commentary with nothing but derogatory insults towards Barney Frank.  I think there are lots of reasons to criticize Barney Frank for, such as his watering down of ENDA and some of his ignorant statements about the trans community, but this isn&#8217;t one of those issues.  An Uncle Tom is someone who defends a bigot at the expense of their own rights for the sake of appeasement and in this regards, gay Republican groups like the LCR and GoProud fit that description perfectly.  </p>
<p>You talk about Barney Frank being a partisan hack and call on us to support Republican gay candidates, but for the life of me, I cannot for the life of me think of a single instance where the LCR supported a gay-friendly Democrat over a homophobic Republican.  While I respect the LCR for their role in repealing DADT, for the vast majority of their history, the LCR have almost always put economic issues over human rights.  While I agree we need more gay-friendly voices in the GOP, voting for a candidate solely because of their sexual orientation is nothing but identity politics and a form of partisanship in itself.  I&#8217;m not going to vote for a candidate just because they&#8217;re a Democrat if they don&#8217;t support human rights.  Likewise, I&#8217;m not going to vote for a Republican just because they&#8217;re gay if I don&#8217;t agree with the policies they support.  If we truly believe that a person&#8217;s sexual orientation doesn&#8217;t matter, then we should vote for candidates because we believe in the policies they support, not because of what gender they love and that&#8217;s what true bipartisanship is.</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/11/48601/comment-page-2#comment-143228</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2012 19:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48601#comment-143228</guid>
		<description>Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/11/48601/comment-page-2#comment-143214</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2012 18:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48601#comment-143214</guid>
		<description>Priya,

fair enough.  I&#039;ll footnote that it is my recollection and that of others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Priya,</p>
<p>fair enough.  I&#8217;ll footnote that it is my recollection and that of others.</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/11/48601/comment-page-2#comment-143198</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2012 18:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48601#comment-143198</guid>
		<description>Timothy said &quot;And I have no inclination to limit my recollections to your standard of proof.&quot;.

If the shoe was on the other foot you&#039;d be demanding proof beyond someone else&#039;s recollections.  Don&#039;t have a lower standard for yourself then you do for the rest of us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy said &#8220;And I have no inclination to limit my recollections to your standard of proof.&#8221;.</p>
<p>If the shoe was on the other foot you&#8217;d be demanding proof beyond someone else&#8217;s recollections.  Don&#8217;t have a lower standard for yourself then you do for the rest of us.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/11/48601/comment-page-2#comment-143156</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2012 16:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48601#comment-143156</guid>
		<description>Wow, Timothy must be pretty embarrassed of himself. And reading his replies to comments throughout the thread, very short and succinct, just goes to show what kind of person he is. Dish it out, and then since you can&#039;t defend what you said, just don&#039;t say anything else at all... right?

How embarrassing... Anti-Gay is something you become from your body of work. Log Cabin Republicans, Gay Republicans, they can try and say whatever they want to defend themselves, but the proof is in the pudding. If you do anti-gay things, then you are anti-gay. It&#039;s like holding a &quot;God Hates Fags&quot; sign, but saying to people &quot;I love everyone.&quot; It just doesn&#039;t jive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, Timothy must be pretty embarrassed of himself. And reading his replies to comments throughout the thread, very short and succinct, just goes to show what kind of person he is. Dish it out, and then since you can&#8217;t defend what you said, just don&#8217;t say anything else at all&#8230; right?</p>
<p>How embarrassing&#8230; Anti-Gay is something you become from your body of work. Log Cabin Republicans, Gay Republicans, they can try and say whatever they want to defend themselves, but the proof is in the pudding. If you do anti-gay things, then you are anti-gay. It&#8217;s like holding a &#8220;God Hates Fags&#8221; sign, but saying to people &#8220;I love everyone.&#8221; It just doesn&#8217;t jive.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/11/48601/comment-page-2#comment-143136</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2012 16:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48601#comment-143136</guid>
		<description>John D

As I stated above, my mention of Frank supporting Silber over Weld is a personal recollection. A number of others share that recollection and I&#039;ve never encountered anyone with a recollection that Frank did anything other than encourage the election of Silber over Weld. 

It was 1990 and the Internet was not there to record and dissect every word. While I&#039;ve found a few of the personal recollection sort of mentions, I too have not found record of a formal press conference endorsement. 

But I also have found no indication that Frank muttered a single passing comment in opposition to Silber in the General election And had he done so it would have been the front page headlines. 

While my recollection is endorsement, going forward I&#039;ll limit my terminology to &quot;supported Silber over Weld&quot;.  I have had far to much confirmation over the years of that fact. 

If you simply must believe that Barney Frank either supported Weld or was silent on the election - be free to do so. If you have some recollection of that, state it. 

But otherwise I&#039;ve addressed this as far as I&#039;m going to. And I have no inclination to limit my recollections to your standard of proof.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John D</p>
<p>As I stated above, my mention of Frank supporting Silber over Weld is a personal recollection. A number of others share that recollection and I&#8217;ve never encountered anyone with a recollection that Frank did anything other than encourage the election of Silber over Weld. </p>
<p>It was 1990 and the Internet was not there to record and dissect every word. While I&#8217;ve found a few of the personal recollection sort of mentions, I too have not found record of a formal press conference endorsement. </p>
<p>But I also have found no indication that Frank muttered a single passing comment in opposition to Silber in the General election And had he done so it would have been the front page headlines. </p>
<p>While my recollection is endorsement, going forward I&#8217;ll limit my terminology to &#8220;supported Silber over Weld&#8221;.  I have had far to much confirmation over the years of that fact. </p>
<p>If you simply must believe that Barney Frank either supported Weld or was silent on the election &#8211; be free to do so. If you have some recollection of that, state it. </p>
<p>But otherwise I&#8217;ve addressed this as far as I&#8217;m going to. And I have no inclination to limit my recollections to your standard of proof.</p>
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		<title>By: John D</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/11/48601/comment-page-2#comment-142933</link>
		<dc:creator>John D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2012 09:23:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48601#comment-142933</guid>
		<description>Oh, what a bunch of partisan hacks we are, looking for substantiation. Damn us!

Once again, I pointed out that Timothy Kincaid has not given us any proof that Frank endorsed Silber. The page he linked to contained the same claim, but did not substantiate it. The Queerty post also contained the likely false claims by Steve Gobie (or to put it another way, of two claims made by the Queerty piece, one was unsubstantiated, the other was false).

Look, I&#039;m sure that Barney isn&#039;t the gay Jewish left-handed Messiah, but if you want to claim that he endorsed Silber (a quick Google search shows that Kincaid has claimed it multiple times), than you need some proof.

To make claims without proof is pure hackery.

You&#039;re free to dislike Barney Frank. Feel free to refute his statements about the Log Cabin Republicans (who have long been seen as ineffectual). I&#039;d like to see them wield some power in their party, but it just isn&#039;t happening. In the meantime, I&#039;d suggest they find the most gay-positive Republicans, stand with them, and state that the other are betraying the soul of the Republican party.

Let&#039;s just be done with unsubstantiated attacks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, what a bunch of partisan hacks we are, looking for substantiation. Damn us!</p>
<p>Once again, I pointed out that Timothy Kincaid has not given us any proof that Frank endorsed Silber. The page he linked to contained the same claim, but did not substantiate it. The Queerty post also contained the likely false claims by Steve Gobie (or to put it another way, of two claims made by the Queerty piece, one was unsubstantiated, the other was false).</p>
<p>Look, I&#8217;m sure that Barney isn&#8217;t the gay Jewish left-handed Messiah, but if you want to claim that he endorsed Silber (a quick Google search shows that Kincaid has claimed it multiple times), than you need some proof.</p>
<p>To make claims without proof is pure hackery.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re free to dislike Barney Frank. Feel free to refute his statements about the Log Cabin Republicans (who have long been seen as ineffectual). I&#8217;d like to see them wield some power in their party, but it just isn&#8217;t happening. In the meantime, I&#8217;d suggest they find the most gay-positive Republicans, stand with them, and state that the other are betraying the soul of the Republican party.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s just be done with unsubstantiated attacks.</p>
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		<title>By: cd</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/11/48601/comment-page-1#comment-142723</link>
		<dc:creator>cd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2012 02:17:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48601#comment-142723</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s less than two months until a major election.  And it seems to me that both Barney Frank and Timothy Kinkaid are engaging in pre-election partisanship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s less than two months until a major election.  And it seems to me that both Barney Frank and Timothy Kinkaid are engaging in pre-election partisanship.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/11/48601/comment-page-1#comment-142524</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 19:11:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48601#comment-142524</guid>
		<description>Donny D

I agree that I was decidedly less civil than I could have been.  

I have already decided that this experiment in mean-spiritedness did not go well.  It allowed for the focus to shift onto the words I used rather than the words Frank used and I agree that if more measured it could have have greater effect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donny D</p>
<p>I agree that I was decidedly less civil than I could have been.  </p>
<p>I have already decided that this experiment in mean-spiritedness did not go well.  It allowed for the focus to shift onto the words I used rather than the words Frank used and I agree that if more measured it could have have greater effect.</p>
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