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	<title>Comments on: I Tolerate You So Much, You Need to Shut Up and Hide!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/24/48985/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/24/48985</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:49:14 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/24/48985/comment-page-1#comment-262938</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Mar 2013 16:59:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48985#comment-262938</guid>
		<description>If you thought that one was bad, try this one! http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2013/03/9449/
I doesn&#039;t make much sense either. As far as I can glean, traditional marriage is good because Leander tried to rape Hero. Or something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you thought that one was bad, try this one! <a href="http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2013/03/9449/" rel="nofollow">http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2013/03/9449/</a><br />
I doesn&#8217;t make much sense either. As far as I can glean, traditional marriage is good because Leander tried to rape Hero. Or something.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/24/48985/comment-page-1#comment-262845</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Mar 2013 05:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48985#comment-262845</guid>
		<description>Poor old Esolen is so confused. He&#039;s just so ... conflicted! I mean if anyone were to encroach upon the extraordinary tolerance of either him or the dauphin, my God! Who knows what would happen? They might be tempted! And from there they could be corrupted! They&#039;d be down that slippery slope in a laundry chute and the resulting debauchery would be all your fault, you gay dudes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Poor old Esolen is so confused. He&#8217;s just so &#8230; conflicted! I mean if anyone were to encroach upon the extraordinary tolerance of either him or the dauphin, my God! Who knows what would happen? They might be tempted! And from there they could be corrupted! They&#8217;d be down that slippery slope in a laundry chute and the resulting debauchery would be all your fault, you gay dudes!</p>
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		<title>By: Frijondi</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/24/48985/comment-page-1#comment-151645</link>
		<dc:creator>Frijondi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2012 21:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48985#comment-151645</guid>
		<description>Does anyone else from the Bay Area remember Art Hoppe&#039;s columns in the SF Chronicle?  For non-Chron readers, Hoppe died about ten years ago, after having been reliably funny five days a week since (I&#039;m told) the 1950s.

I&#039;ve been googling around trying to find a particular column he wrote in the early eighties that addresses Mr. Esolen&#039;s concerns.  Can&#039;t find it, so I&#039;ll try to reconstruct the gist from memory.  It went more or less like this:

Hoppe&#039;s fictitious son Mordred comes home and announces, &quot;Guess what, Dad? I&#039;ve been recruited!&quot;

&quot;You mean by the army? Didn&#039;t your mother and I warn you about that?&quot;

&quot;No, by the homosexuals.&quot;

&quot;Really?  I thought you had a crush on that girl in your history class.&quot;

&quot;Well, these two guys told me that as a homosexual, I&#039;d live a glamorous, carefree life, with no wife to nag me and no kids to put through college.  Women will love me because I&#039;m well-dressed, witty and cultured, and I&#039;ll get to accompany rich widows to the symphony and art openings every weekend!&quot;

&quot;Son, do you realize what two men actually have to do together in order to be homosexuals?&quot;

And that was the end of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone else from the Bay Area remember Art Hoppe&#8217;s columns in the SF Chronicle?  For non-Chron readers, Hoppe died about ten years ago, after having been reliably funny five days a week since (I&#8217;m told) the 1950s.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been googling around trying to find a particular column he wrote in the early eighties that addresses Mr. Esolen&#8217;s concerns.  Can&#8217;t find it, so I&#8217;ll try to reconstruct the gist from memory.  It went more or less like this:</p>
<p>Hoppe&#8217;s fictitious son Mordred comes home and announces, &#8220;Guess what, Dad? I&#8217;ve been recruited!&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;You mean by the army? Didn&#8217;t your mother and I warn you about that?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;No, by the homosexuals.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Really?  I thought you had a crush on that girl in your history class.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Well, these two guys told me that as a homosexual, I&#8217;d live a glamorous, carefree life, with no wife to nag me and no kids to put through college.  Women will love me because I&#8217;m well-dressed, witty and cultured, and I&#8217;ll get to accompany rich widows to the symphony and art openings every weekend!&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Son, do you realize what two men actually have to do together in order to be homosexuals?&#8221;</p>
<p>And that was the end of that.</p>
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		<title>By: TikiHead</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/24/48985/comment-page-1#comment-151536</link>
		<dc:creator>TikiHead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2012 18:14:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48985#comment-151536</guid>
		<description>LOL. I am envisioning the gay snare in his son&#039;s path. Maybe it&#039;s a Pottery Barn Catalog, with a tilted box held by a stick, connected to a string...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL. I am envisioning the gay snare in his son&#8217;s path. Maybe it&#8217;s a Pottery Barn Catalog, with a tilted box held by a stick, connected to a string&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/24/48985/comment-page-1#comment-151454</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2012 15:37:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48985#comment-151454</guid>
		<description>I am so profoundly encouraged by the ability of us on the side of equality to think critically and divergently. Those on Mr. Esolen&#039;s team ought to try it some time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so profoundly encouraged by the ability of us on the side of equality to think critically and divergently. Those on Mr. Esolen&#8217;s team ought to try it some time.</p>
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		<title>By: cd</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/24/48985/comment-page-1#comment-151137</link>
		<dc:creator>cd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2012 04:46:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48985#comment-151137</guid>
		<description>To find where Prof. Esolen is at any given time, measure the rotation of the Earth accurately and compute where the point on its surface is that it revolves around. Go there and you will meet Prof. Esolen!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To find where Prof. Esolen is at any given time, measure the rotation of the Earth accurately and compute where the point on its surface is that it revolves around. Go there and you will meet Prof. Esolen!!!</p>
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		<title>By: CPT_Doom</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/24/48985/comment-page-1#comment-150622</link>
		<dc:creator>CPT_Doom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2012 11:48:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48985#comment-150622</guid>
		<description>I feel very sorry for Mr. Esolen, for the burdens he carries, and I think the least the LGBT community can do - especially those of us who have not &lt;i&gt;attained the healthy masculine nature&lt;/i&gt; he wants for his son - is to honor his wishes. We should keep our homosexuality and our existence hidden from his precious son, even though that may inconvenience him a bit. After all, that history teacher who lives without a wife cannot guarantee that Mr. Esolen&#039;s son won&#039;t figure out his &quot;nautre&quot; from his mannerisms, etc. Thus he must decline to educate Mr. Esolen&#039;s son. The waiter must also refrain from serving the professor and his family; the doctor must refrain from providing health care; the accountant must refuse to do their taxes; the pilot must refuse them passage on his airliner - all to ensure that very special Esolen &lt;i&gt;dauphin&lt;/i&gt; won&#039;t ever come into contact with non-masculine individuals. Sure trying to navigate the world without ever coming into contact with TEH GAY may require longer waits by the Esolen family and whole places - like Disney parks - where they cannot go, but I am sure it will be worth the sacrifice. 

Oh, and one other note for Mr. Esolen. The two teenagers who bashed me 8 years ago, smashing my face in with a brick, learned very quickly that I can certainly fight like a man, which is why they ran away like the cowards that they were. And I am not the only homosexual who is capable of self-defense. He might remember that there are those of us who have come close enough to Esolen&#039;s masculine ideal that we can actually kick his sorry behind, hypothetically speaking of course. It might make him pause before ticking more of us off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel very sorry for Mr. Esolen, for the burdens he carries, and I think the least the LGBT community can do &#8211; especially those of us who have not <i>attained the healthy masculine nature</i> he wants for his son &#8211; is to honor his wishes. We should keep our homosexuality and our existence hidden from his precious son, even though that may inconvenience him a bit. After all, that history teacher who lives without a wife cannot guarantee that Mr. Esolen&#8217;s son won&#8217;t figure out his &#8220;nautre&#8221; from his mannerisms, etc. Thus he must decline to educate Mr. Esolen&#8217;s son. The waiter must also refrain from serving the professor and his family; the doctor must refrain from providing health care; the accountant must refuse to do their taxes; the pilot must refuse them passage on his airliner &#8211; all to ensure that very special Esolen <i>dauphin</i> won&#8217;t ever come into contact with non-masculine individuals. Sure trying to navigate the world without ever coming into contact with TEH GAY may require longer waits by the Esolen family and whole places &#8211; like Disney parks &#8211; where they cannot go, but I am sure it will be worth the sacrifice. </p>
<p>Oh, and one other note for Mr. Esolen. The two teenagers who bashed me 8 years ago, smashing my face in with a brick, learned very quickly that I can certainly fight like a man, which is why they ran away like the cowards that they were. And I am not the only homosexual who is capable of self-defense. He might remember that there are those of us who have come close enough to Esolen&#8217;s masculine ideal that we can actually kick his sorry behind, hypothetically speaking of course. It might make him pause before ticking more of us off.</p>
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		<title>By: esurience</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/24/48985/comment-page-1#comment-150415</link>
		<dc:creator>esurience</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2012 04:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48985#comment-150415</guid>
		<description>Doesn&#039;t he understand that we are tolerating him as well?

I would rather he not not hold the views he does, and if he must hold them, I&#039;d rather he not express them. In fact, I think he does damage by expressing his views. Sets up a &quot;snare&quot; for other people, if you will.

But I recognize his right to hold those views, and his right to express them, as contemptible as I find them.

What debt should he owe to me for tolerating that?

&quot;For one, the rights of my son should be respected.&quot;

Your son has no right to not be confronted with ideas and people that make him uncomfortable.

If that was truly a &quot;right&quot; then I&#039;d have to demand not to be confronted with
*you*.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&#8217;t he understand that we are tolerating him as well?</p>
<p>I would rather he not not hold the views he does, and if he must hold them, I&#8217;d rather he not express them. In fact, I think he does damage by expressing his views. Sets up a &#8220;snare&#8221; for other people, if you will.</p>
<p>But I recognize his right to hold those views, and his right to express them, as contemptible as I find them.</p>
<p>What debt should he owe to me for tolerating that?</p>
<p>&#8220;For one, the rights of my son should be respected.&#8221;</p>
<p>Your son has no right to not be confronted with ideas and people that make him uncomfortable.</p>
<p>If that was truly a &#8220;right&#8221; then I&#8217;d have to demand not to be confronted with<br />
*you*.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/24/48985/comment-page-1#comment-150309</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2012 01:00:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48985#comment-150309</guid>
		<description>Mr Esolen wants his son to grow up without encountering any complications of humanity. I gather the plan is to hatch him from an infantile state into fully fledged masculine innocence.

Fie on us nasty gays with our snaring tendencies. The Garden of Eden may yet be brought into being as Mr Esolen fashions his son into the new Adam. let&#039;s all keep very quiet so the imprinting process takes hold and he might recognise his Eve when he sees her.

Wouldn&#039;t it be terrible if some less than ideal condition should rupture the fragile purity of Adam&#039;s gender construction. We&#039;d better all stay indoors lest we somehow cause a fall from Grace. Whatever you do, don&#039;t let him see your apples.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Esolen wants his son to grow up without encountering any complications of humanity. I gather the plan is to hatch him from an infantile state into fully fledged masculine innocence.</p>
<p>Fie on us nasty gays with our snaring tendencies. The Garden of Eden may yet be brought into being as Mr Esolen fashions his son into the new Adam. let&#8217;s all keep very quiet so the imprinting process takes hold and he might recognise his Eve when he sees her.</p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t it be terrible if some less than ideal condition should rupture the fragile purity of Adam&#8217;s gender construction. We&#8217;d better all stay indoors lest we somehow cause a fall from Grace. Whatever you do, don&#8217;t let him see your apples.</p>
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		<title>By: David S.</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/09/24/48985/comment-page-1#comment-150237</link>
		<dc:creator>David S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2012 22:12:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=48985#comment-150237</guid>
		<description>Professor Esolen wrote a series of blog entries entitled &quot;Ten Arguments for Sanity&quot; on the Touchstone Magazine blog some time ago. This blog entry links to and critically summarizes his arguments, such as they are:

http://www.ivygateblog.com/2012/02/before-yales-upcoming-true-love-week-headline-speaker-published-fanatical-anti-gay-tirades/#more-18116</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Professor Esolen wrote a series of blog entries entitled &#8220;Ten Arguments for Sanity&#8221; on the Touchstone Magazine blog some time ago. This blog entry links to and critically summarizes his arguments, such as they are:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ivygateblog.com/2012/02/before-yales-upcoming-true-love-week-headline-speaker-published-fanatical-anti-gay-tirades/#more-18116" rel="nofollow">http://www.ivygateblog.com/2012/02/before-yales-upcoming-true-love-week-headline-speaker-published-fanatical-anti-gay-tirades/#more-18116</a></p>
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