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	<title>Comments on: Mehlman: Conservative case for marriage</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/10/13/49661</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: John D</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/10/13/49661/comment-page-1#comment-164244</link>
		<dc:creator>John D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2012 19:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=49661#comment-164244</guid>
		<description>It seems to be a good thing from Timothy Kincaid&#039;s view that all Melman did was to inflame anti-gay sentiments to get a Republican in the White House, as opposed to (allegedly) endorsing an anti-gay politician. Oh, wait, he worked for a politician who ran on a platform of restricting gay rights.

If Barney Frank, who has worked for equality far longer than Melman, is somehow tainted because you think you remember that he endorsed John Silber (I don&#039;t remember that, though I lived in Massachusetts then), how tainted must Melman be? Clearly, we must never trust him after what he&#039;s done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to be a good thing from Timothy Kincaid&#8217;s view that all Melman did was to inflame anti-gay sentiments to get a Republican in the White House, as opposed to (allegedly) endorsing an anti-gay politician. Oh, wait, he worked for a politician who ran on a platform of restricting gay rights.</p>
<p>If Barney Frank, who has worked for equality far longer than Melman, is somehow tainted because you think you remember that he endorsed John Silber (I don&#8217;t remember that, though I lived in Massachusetts then), how tainted must Melman be? Clearly, we must never trust him after what he&#8217;s done.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/10/13/49661/comment-page-1#comment-162965</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2012 15:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=49661#comment-162965</guid>
		<description>&quot;San Fransisco values&quot; means &quot;fags&quot;, of course. It&#039;s barely even a dog whistle. As for the article, Cheney and Mehlman are cowards who only defended gay equality after becoming politically irrelevant. Eastwood kicks ass, period, full-stop.  And the true conservative heroes are people like Olson, Susan Collins, and the four NY Senators,  who fought for gay equality in a quantifiable, meaningful way. Cheney (who would obviously be 100% apathetic to gay equality if his daughter wasn&#039;t gay) and Melhman sought money and power at the deliberate expense of gay people and should never be spoken of in a discussion of gay rights unless in derision and scorn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;San Fransisco values&#8221; means &#8220;fags&#8221;, of course. It&#8217;s barely even a dog whistle. As for the article, Cheney and Mehlman are cowards who only defended gay equality after becoming politically irrelevant. Eastwood kicks ass, period, full-stop.  And the true conservative heroes are people like Olson, Susan Collins, and the four NY Senators,  who fought for gay equality in a quantifiable, meaningful way. Cheney (who would obviously be 100% apathetic to gay equality if his daughter wasn&#8217;t gay) and Melhman sought money and power at the deliberate expense of gay people and should never be spoken of in a discussion of gay rights unless in derision and scorn.</p>
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		<title>By: Lord_Byron</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/10/13/49661/comment-page-1#comment-162574</link>
		<dc:creator>Lord_Byron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2012 23:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=49661#comment-162574</guid>
		<description>First off I have to say this: Dick Cheney and small government used in the same sentence? How laughable. 

I also take umbrage at the phrase &quot;San Francisco Values&quot;. As Rick stated it seems that conservatives have a weird view of what people in San Francisco value. I do not live in the area, but that phrase along with liberal elite and intellectual elite annoy me greatly. 

Other than that it was an interesting article and while I greatly dislike Ken Mehlman for much of the anti-gay rhetoric used to elect and re-elect bush I appreciate what he is attempting to do. Still does not make up for what he did, in my opinion, but it&#039;s a start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off I have to say this: Dick Cheney and small government used in the same sentence? How laughable. </p>
<p>I also take umbrage at the phrase &#8220;San Francisco Values&#8221;. As Rick stated it seems that conservatives have a weird view of what people in San Francisco value. I do not live in the area, but that phrase along with liberal elite and intellectual elite annoy me greatly. </p>
<p>Other than that it was an interesting article and while I greatly dislike Ken Mehlman for much of the anti-gay rhetoric used to elect and re-elect bush I appreciate what he is attempting to do. Still does not make up for what he did, in my opinion, but it&#8217;s a start.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Loesser</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/10/13/49661/comment-page-1#comment-162537</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Loesser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2012 22:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=49661#comment-162537</guid>
		<description>What do you do with the gay folk who are clamoring for the right to marry, raise kids, live in a white picket fence neighborhood, volunteer for the local boy scout troop, and march in the Halloween Parade? That’s so… conservative. Those aren’t “San Francisco values”. How can this be?  As a San Franciscan - I thought these were &#039;San Francisco&#039; values.  Pray tell, what demonic values do we represent?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do you do with the gay folk who are clamoring for the right to marry, raise kids, live in a white picket fence neighborhood, volunteer for the local boy scout troop, and march in the Halloween Parade? That’s so… conservative. Those aren’t “San Francisco values”. How can this be?  As a San Franciscan &#8211; I thought these were &#8216;San Francisco&#8217; values.  Pray tell, what demonic values do we represent?</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/10/13/49661/comment-page-1#comment-162497</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2012 20:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=49661#comment-162497</guid>
		<description>I do think Mehlman&#039;s opinion matters as a person who can &quot;translate&quot; marriage equality into conservative language but I don&#039;t see him, personally, being effective because people don&#039;t know him.  To give credit where credit is due, Mehlman is quoting almost perfectly Andrew Sullivan&#039;s long-standing, even MORE thoughtful conservative case for marriage equality.  At least Mehlman didn&#039;t distort Sullivan&#039;s work. I don&#039;t know how Mehlman could convey what Sulliivan wrote in sound-bit size any better than he did. I&#039;m sure Andrew breathed a sigh of relief. 

 I&#039;ve been doing this *exact* pitch for the last ten years and my talking points *all* come from Sullivan.  I didn&#039;t expect to see more of it when Sullivan published his, &quot;The Conservative Soul&quot; but that book turned out to be the primer in how to frame the debate in a language conservatives understand.  CORRECTION:  &quot;... a language conservatives can HEAR&quot; because the dog whistles have to be embedded in the argument. 

Mehlman is correct when he says the majority have a core of conservatism in them and it&#039;s the everyday, plain common sense understanding that we all have to balance a check book and we don&#039;t want things to get complicated to the point that we fear people are talking over our heads. We want our religion, or we want our freedom *from* religion and it&#039;s a conservative to want the government to keep their hands off our marriages as it is to say keep your hands out of my religion.

From experience, I know these approaches work and I&#039;ve seen them work on some incredibly ugly anti-gay bigots. But you have to have conservative cred before they&#039;ll hear you and in that regard, you just have to by-god assert it, even to the point of telling self-identified conservatives what ISN&#039;T conservative about their views.  Religious fundamentalists are especially vulnerable to having their lack of conservative credentials exposed since so many of them believe that their religious beliefs - alone - is what defines them as conservative.  It&#039;s pretty easy to show them how their beliefs are in direct conflict with classic conservatism - actually more closely associated with liberalism&#039;s tendency to nanny the country by  force of law.  When you can show them how they are doing that, it&#039;s pretty jolting to religious conservatives. The *do* start questing what it means to be conservative.

One conservative at a time. The line forms here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do think Mehlman&#8217;s opinion matters as a person who can &#8220;translate&#8221; marriage equality into conservative language but I don&#8217;t see him, personally, being effective because people don&#8217;t know him.  To give credit where credit is due, Mehlman is quoting almost perfectly Andrew Sullivan&#8217;s long-standing, even MORE thoughtful conservative case for marriage equality.  At least Mehlman didn&#8217;t distort Sullivan&#8217;s work. I don&#8217;t know how Mehlman could convey what Sulliivan wrote in sound-bit size any better than he did. I&#8217;m sure Andrew breathed a sigh of relief. </p>
<p> I&#8217;ve been doing this *exact* pitch for the last ten years and my talking points *all* come from Sullivan.  I didn&#8217;t expect to see more of it when Sullivan published his, &#8220;The Conservative Soul&#8221; but that book turned out to be the primer in how to frame the debate in a language conservatives understand.  CORRECTION:  &#8220;&#8230; a language conservatives can HEAR&#8221; because the dog whistles have to be embedded in the argument. </p>
<p>Mehlman is correct when he says the majority have a core of conservatism in them and it&#8217;s the everyday, plain common sense understanding that we all have to balance a check book and we don&#8217;t want things to get complicated to the point that we fear people are talking over our heads. We want our religion, or we want our freedom *from* religion and it&#8217;s a conservative to want the government to keep their hands off our marriages as it is to say keep your hands out of my religion.</p>
<p>From experience, I know these approaches work and I&#8217;ve seen them work on some incredibly ugly anti-gay bigots. But you have to have conservative cred before they&#8217;ll hear you and in that regard, you just have to by-god assert it, even to the point of telling self-identified conservatives what ISN&#8217;T conservative about their views.  Religious fundamentalists are especially vulnerable to having their lack of conservative credentials exposed since so many of them believe that their religious beliefs &#8211; alone &#8211; is what defines them as conservative.  It&#8217;s pretty easy to show them how their beliefs are in direct conflict with classic conservatism &#8211; actually more closely associated with liberalism&#8217;s tendency to nanny the country by  force of law.  When you can show them how they are doing that, it&#8217;s pretty jolting to religious conservatives. The *do* start questing what it means to be conservative.</p>
<p>One conservative at a time. The line forms here.</p>
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