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	<title>Comments on: Log Cabin doubles down on Hagel</title>
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	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/07/52444</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
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		<title>By: Molly Nolan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/07/52444/comment-page-1#comment-229310</link>
		<dc:creator>Molly Nolan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2013 18:45:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=52444#comment-229310</guid>
		<description>Mittens who has spewed plenty of more politely worded anti gay rhetoric, much of it recently, who in the position of President could have enacted anti gay policies, OK with LCR.  Hagel, said anti gay things some time ago, but more importantly on the LGBTI issues, has to uphold policies of President Obama, not OK.  If LCR opposed Hagel for other positions than anti gay statements, it would play as less hypocritical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mittens who has spewed plenty of more politely worded anti gay rhetoric, much of it recently, who in the position of President could have enacted anti gay policies, OK with LCR.  Hagel, said anti gay things some time ago, but more importantly on the LGBTI issues, has to uphold policies of President Obama, not OK.  If LCR opposed Hagel for other positions than anti gay statements, it would play as less hypocritical.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/07/52444/comment-page-1#comment-224774</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2013 22:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=52444#comment-224774</guid>
		<description>Robert,

guess what?  You don&#039;t get to just make up total lies about me.

So until you either (a) find an example of me endorsing Mehlman and all the politicos from the far right that tried to get discrimination placed into the Constitution, or (b) apologize - your choice - I&#039;ll be moderating your comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert,</p>
<p>guess what?  You don&#8217;t get to just make up total lies about me.</p>
<p>So until you either (a) find an example of me endorsing Mehlman and all the politicos from the far right that tried to get discrimination placed into the Constitution, or (b) apologize &#8211; your choice &#8211; I&#8217;ll be moderating your comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/07/52444/comment-page-1#comment-224460</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2013 17:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=52444#comment-224460</guid>
		<description>yet Kincaide endorses all the politicos from the far right that tried to get dixcrimination placed into the Constitution (MEHLMAN, et. al).  Sure Timothy, we believe you.  Really. Truly, we do.  What a load of hooey.  Slapping down those who come around is no way to move forward, it&#039;s a way of keeping us and others down.  Did you throw your support to Dick Cheney just because he came out for gay rights?  I bet you did.  If not, I&#039;m sure you wanted to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yet Kincaide endorses all the politicos from the far right that tried to get dixcrimination placed into the Constitution (MEHLMAN, et. al).  Sure Timothy, we believe you.  Really. Truly, we do.  What a load of hooey.  Slapping down those who come around is no way to move forward, it&#8217;s a way of keeping us and others down.  Did you throw your support to Dick Cheney just because he came out for gay rights?  I bet you did.  If not, I&#8217;m sure you wanted to.</p>
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		<title>By: Priya Lynn</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/07/52444/comment-page-1#comment-224432</link>
		<dc:creator>Priya Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2013 17:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=52444#comment-224432</guid>
		<description>The issue is not why Hagel is being opposed, its the hypocrisy of the Log Cabin Republicans in opposing him after they endorsed Romney/Ryan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue is not why Hagel is being opposed, its the hypocrisy of the Log Cabin Republicans in opposing him after they endorsed Romney/Ryan.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Kincaid</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/07/52444/comment-page-1#comment-224361</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Kincaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=52444#comment-224361</guid>
		<description>Mark,

Your comment illustrates a fascinating political phenomenon. There is much argument and discussion about &quot;why Hagel is being opposed&quot;.  And more than a few have expressed their own position based solely on who is opposing him. 

And that does have value. One&#039;s opponents do tell a great deal about one&#039;s positions or potential. (Though I do find the rather antisemetic undertone of some comments to be troubling).

However, my focus is not on why someone else opposes Hagel but on why &lt;b&gt;I&lt;/b&gt; oppose him. 

I am more supportive of Israel than Hagel (though less hawkish than his detractors), but that&#039;s not really of much interest to our readers. I doubt that anyone visits so as to get my views on military strategy or whether I support a two state policy. Those are not my reasons here. 

Log Cabin and/or their supporters may be pro-Israel. But their argument in their latest ad is entirely about Hagel&#039;s decisions, actions, and words directed towards gay Americans. Their ad happens to mirror my own previously stated concerns. 

I find it absurd and laughable that those who either want to support the administration or want to hate Log Cabin refuse to address what LCR says and instead want to assign them motivations and, based on those imagined motivations, deride their character. 

Whether LCR endorsed or picketed Mitt Romney, whether Hagel is supported or opposed by right-wing nutcases, whether or not Barney Frank likes or hates his party registration, it still remains that Hagel has a long uninterrupted anti-gay history which is not, for me, wished away by one &quot;please confirm me&quot; statement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,</p>
<p>Your comment illustrates a fascinating political phenomenon. There is much argument and discussion about &#8220;why Hagel is being opposed&#8221;.  And more than a few have expressed their own position based solely on who is opposing him. </p>
<p>And that does have value. One&#8217;s opponents do tell a great deal about one&#8217;s positions or potential. (Though I do find the rather antisemetic undertone of some comments to be troubling).</p>
<p>However, my focus is not on why someone else opposes Hagel but on why <b>I</b> oppose him. </p>
<p>I am more supportive of Israel than Hagel (though less hawkish than his detractors), but that&#8217;s not really of much interest to our readers. I doubt that anyone visits so as to get my views on military strategy or whether I support a two state policy. Those are not my reasons here. </p>
<p>Log Cabin and/or their supporters may be pro-Israel. But their argument in their latest ad is entirely about Hagel&#8217;s decisions, actions, and words directed towards gay Americans. Their ad happens to mirror my own previously stated concerns. </p>
<p>I find it absurd and laughable that those who either want to support the administration or want to hate Log Cabin refuse to address what LCR says and instead want to assign them motivations and, based on those imagined motivations, deride their character. </p>
<p>Whether LCR endorsed or picketed Mitt Romney, whether Hagel is supported or opposed by right-wing nutcases, whether or not Barney Frank likes or hates his party registration, it still remains that Hagel has a long uninterrupted anti-gay history which is not, for me, wished away by one &#8220;please confirm me&#8221; statement.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark F.</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/07/52444/comment-page-1#comment-223889</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark F.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2013 07:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=52444#comment-223889</guid>
		<description>Whatever&#039;s Hagel&#039;s real views are, he has to stay in line with Obama&#039;s views to keep his job. I&#039;m really not concerned with this issue.

Hagel is really being opposed because he is considered to be too dovish. Tim, I&#039;m surprised you can&#039;t see this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whatever&#8217;s Hagel&#8217;s real views are, he has to stay in line with Obama&#8217;s views to keep his job. I&#8217;m really not concerned with this issue.</p>
<p>Hagel is really being opposed because he is considered to be too dovish. Tim, I&#8217;m surprised you can&#8217;t see this.</p>
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		<title>By: MattNYC</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/07/52444/comment-page-1#comment-223688</link>
		<dc:creator>MattNYC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2013 00:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=52444#comment-223688</guid>
		<description>I feel that his apology is as sincere as any politician can make.  He&#039;s done running for office and has nothing to defend--that doesn&#039;t justify his stances when he actually held power, but it does make me believe him more now.

He&#039;s a soldier&#039;s soldier and I believe he&#039;ll defend equality in the military the same way that every other part of the Pentagon has.  

I agree that LCR has once again found themselves willingly used as tools as long as it gets them attention, press and money (I&#039;d be willing to bet that they received large &quot;anonymous&quot; donations from some &quot;end-timers&quot; who are using them to help defeat a guy who won&#039;t kiss Bibi&#039;s feet.

As a secular, peace-loving Jew--like the vast majority of the actual Israeli population--the fact that he annoys AIPAC and Bibi (and the Chicken-Hawk Neo-cons) makes me like him FAR more than his Senatorial anti-gay stances ever made me detest him.

This country would be much better off without the enormously damaging influence that AIPAC and CUFI wield over our foreign policy.  In the latter&#039;s case, it truly shames me that there are Jews and supporters of Israel who would align themselves to religious fanatics who need all Jews to return to Israel so that they can die in the Apocalypse that they all hope comes soon.  Rah, rah, Israel!  With friends like that...

So, LCR--in its desperate need to be accepted and tolerated (like a beaten spouse)--plays the tool.  How proud they must all feel.  What a cash cow for shrinks everywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel that his apology is as sincere as any politician can make.  He&#8217;s done running for office and has nothing to defend&#8211;that doesn&#8217;t justify his stances when he actually held power, but it does make me believe him more now.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s a soldier&#8217;s soldier and I believe he&#8217;ll defend equality in the military the same way that every other part of the Pentagon has.  </p>
<p>I agree that LCR has once again found themselves willingly used as tools as long as it gets them attention, press and money (I&#8217;d be willing to bet that they received large &#8220;anonymous&#8221; donations from some &#8220;end-timers&#8221; who are using them to help defeat a guy who won&#8217;t kiss Bibi&#8217;s feet.</p>
<p>As a secular, peace-loving Jew&#8211;like the vast majority of the actual Israeli population&#8211;the fact that he annoys AIPAC and Bibi (and the Chicken-Hawk Neo-cons) makes me like him FAR more than his Senatorial anti-gay stances ever made me detest him.</p>
<p>This country would be much better off without the enormously damaging influence that AIPAC and CUFI wield over our foreign policy.  In the latter&#8217;s case, it truly shames me that there are Jews and supporters of Israel who would align themselves to religious fanatics who need all Jews to return to Israel so that they can die in the Apocalypse that they all hope comes soon.  Rah, rah, Israel!  With friends like that&#8230;</p>
<p>So, LCR&#8211;in its desperate need to be accepted and tolerated (like a beaten spouse)&#8211;plays the tool.  How proud they must all feel.  What a cash cow for shrinks everywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Hyhybt</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/07/52444/comment-page-1#comment-223593</link>
		<dc:creator>Hyhybt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2013 21:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=52444#comment-223593</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know... on the one hand, I don&#039;t trust his apology, and, were it up to me, wouldn&#039;t put someone who seems to be anti-gay (and other things besides) in a position of power given other viable options.

On the other hand, that&#039;s a *relatively* small part of his potential job, for which, so far as I know, he&#039;s otherwise qualified for, and he can&#039;t go too far out of line considering where his would-be boss stands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know&#8230; on the one hand, I don&#8217;t trust his apology, and, were it up to me, wouldn&#8217;t put someone who seems to be anti-gay (and other things besides) in a position of power given other viable options.</p>
<p>On the other hand, that&#8217;s a *relatively* small part of his potential job, for which, so far as I know, he&#8217;s otherwise qualified for, and he can&#8217;t go too far out of line considering where his would-be boss stands.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/07/52444/comment-page-1#comment-223554</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2013 20:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=52444#comment-223554</guid>
		<description>Oh, and today Chris Barron tweeted &quot;this Hagel is &quot;anti-gay&quot; smear campaign is disgraceful and a damn lie&quot;. Obviously,since he&#039;s not part of the organization anymore, he didn&#039;t get the payoff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and today Chris Barron tweeted &#8220;this Hagel is &#8220;anti-gay&#8221; smear campaign is disgraceful and a damn lie&#8221;. Obviously,since he&#8217;s not part of the organization anymore, he didn&#8217;t get the payoff.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/07/52444/comment-page-1#comment-223552</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2013 20:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=52444#comment-223552</guid>
		<description>The Republicans are concern-trolling, with a major assist from the Log Cabin-ites. I&#039;m ashamed to say I fell for it. They endorsed Romney, for christsake. Not only was Romney against DADT, but he pledged to push for a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. The Hagel thing isn&#039;t about the gays, it&#039;s about Israel, and Republicans are attempting to play Dems for fools, suddenly pretending to give a good goddamn gay rights. It&#039;s pathetic and transparent. It&#039;s enough to make me support Hagel, despite the fact that he&#039;s anti-gay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Republicans are concern-trolling, with a major assist from the Log Cabin-ites. I&#8217;m ashamed to say I fell for it. They endorsed Romney, for christsake. Not only was Romney against DADT, but he pledged to push for a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. The Hagel thing isn&#8217;t about the gays, it&#8217;s about Israel, and Republicans are attempting to play Dems for fools, suddenly pretending to give a good goddamn gay rights. It&#8217;s pathetic and transparent. It&#8217;s enough to make me support Hagel, despite the fact that he&#8217;s anti-gay.</p>
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