<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: McCaskill back at Gallaudet</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/08/52575/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/08/52575</link>
	<description>News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 19 May 2013 14:07:11 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: College Jay</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/08/52575/comment-page-1#comment-230741</link>
		<dc:creator>College Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2013 00:14:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=52575#comment-230741</guid>
		<description>Then it really becomes an issue of whether or not McCaskill&#039;s actions undermined the university&#039;s mission or goals. Certainly any sizable college is going to have a faculty and student body with diverse political beliefs. It would be improper, I think, for the university to say which political beliefs are correct and which are not.

I mean, would it be a stretch to say that any faculty member who openly supported Romney in the last election was guilty of the same crime as McCaskill? I don&#039;t think so. His anti-gay marriage stance was very well known, and if McCaskill was disciplined for signing a petition, why wouldn&#039;t other faculty members be disciplined for supporting an anti-gay candidate under the same principle?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then it really becomes an issue of whether or not McCaskill&#8217;s actions undermined the university&#8217;s mission or goals. Certainly any sizable college is going to have a faculty and student body with diverse political beliefs. It would be improper, I think, for the university to say which political beliefs are correct and which are not.</p>
<p>I mean, would it be a stretch to say that any faculty member who openly supported Romney in the last election was guilty of the same crime as McCaskill? I don&#8217;t think so. His anti-gay marriage stance was very well known, and if McCaskill was disciplined for signing a petition, why wouldn&#8217;t other faculty members be disciplined for supporting an anti-gay candidate under the same principle?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael C</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/08/52575/comment-page-1#comment-228481</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2013 17:05:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=52575#comment-228481</guid>
		<description>Hello Andrew,
While I find it awful that gay kids are kicked out of religious schools and teachers are fired for not publicly condemning homosexuals, I don&#039;t have take legal issue with the religious institutions right to do so.

I don&#039;t think that a public declaration of opposing values to your employer should be protected by anti-discrimination laws. If the spokesperson for PETA appeared in a KFC ad campaign, PETA has the right to fire them. Their views are not being censored by their employer, the conditions of their employment are being breached by their actions. Employers have the right to terminate an employee that takes action to undermine the employers mission/goals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Andrew,<br />
While I find it awful that gay kids are kicked out of religious schools and teachers are fired for not publicly condemning homosexuals, I don&#8217;t have take legal issue with the religious institutions right to do so.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that a public declaration of opposing values to your employer should be protected by anti-discrimination laws. If the spokesperson for PETA appeared in a KFC ad campaign, PETA has the right to fire them. Their views are not being censored by their employer, the conditions of their employment are being breached by their actions. Employers have the right to terminate an employee that takes action to undermine the employers mission/goals.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/08/52575/comment-page-1#comment-227971</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2013 06:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=52575#comment-227971</guid>
		<description>Michael C, what we&#039;re talking about here is REACTIONS.  Of course many gays or gay-allies are dismissed from their jobs.  And we rant and rave about it (as we should).  

So how can we then turn our backs on McCaskill?  It&#039;s the same basic principal.  The only difference is content.  

A good parallel would be whether you stand against censorship, or whether you only stand against being yourself censored for your particular views because you&#039;re very right.  

My fundamental argument is that the former is more likely to guarantee the latter over the long haul.  The wheel turns, winners and losers trade places.  Agree to a set of rules that will maximize your gains but minimize your losses, and result in a society we all want to live in.

By the way - I&#039;m curious to see how McCaskill approaches her clients (students) after this, and whether she&#039;s both able to relate to them, and whether she&#039;s able to regain a measure of trust among her detractors (although given that I remember college politics revolving around posturing 20 year olds, unfinished egos, and a lack of critical thought, I have my doubts).  What a fascinating challenge.  I&#039;m curious to see whether she&#039;s able to meet the task in the long run.  It could present a remarkable civics lesson.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael C, what we&#8217;re talking about here is REACTIONS.  Of course many gays or gay-allies are dismissed from their jobs.  And we rant and rave about it (as we should).  </p>
<p>So how can we then turn our backs on McCaskill?  It&#8217;s the same basic principal.  The only difference is content.  </p>
<p>A good parallel would be whether you stand against censorship, or whether you only stand against being yourself censored for your particular views because you&#8217;re very right.  </p>
<p>My fundamental argument is that the former is more likely to guarantee the latter over the long haul.  The wheel turns, winners and losers trade places.  Agree to a set of rules that will maximize your gains but minimize your losses, and result in a society we all want to live in.</p>
<p>By the way &#8211; I&#8217;m curious to see how McCaskill approaches her clients (students) after this, and whether she&#8217;s both able to relate to them, and whether she&#8217;s able to regain a measure of trust among her detractors (although given that I remember college politics revolving around posturing 20 year olds, unfinished egos, and a lack of critical thought, I have my doubts).  What a fascinating challenge.  I&#8217;m curious to see whether she&#8217;s able to meet the task in the long run.  It could present a remarkable civics lesson.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/08/52575/comment-page-1#comment-227963</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2013 06:42:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=52575#comment-227963</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately, according to the NLRB and Federal law, gays have yet to be identified as a &quot;suspect class&quot; affording us the same protections as categories, such as race, gender, or religion -- that leaves it up to state law.  You sure don&#039;t hear too many of those cases happening here in California, or in Massachusetts, because here, unless the primary mission of the organization was religious (e.g. a church or religious ministry), they must comply with state law.  This is because we still don&#039;t have the Employment Non-Discrimination Act.  (One more double-edged sword moment... in states where orientation discrimination is barred, gay-owned businesses cannot discriminate against straight employees or applicants).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, according to the NLRB and Federal law, gays have yet to be identified as a &#8220;suspect class&#8221; affording us the same protections as categories, such as race, gender, or religion &#8212; that leaves it up to state law.  You sure don&#8217;t hear too many of those cases happening here in California, or in Massachusetts, because here, unless the primary mission of the organization was religious (e.g. a church or religious ministry), they must comply with state law.  This is because we still don&#8217;t have the Employment Non-Discrimination Act.  (One more double-edged sword moment&#8230; in states where orientation discrimination is barred, gay-owned businesses cannot discriminate against straight employees or applicants).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael C</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/08/52575/comment-page-1#comment-227505</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2013 19:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=52575#comment-227505</guid>
		<description>Hi CollegeJay,
Christian colleges fire staff all of the time for not agreeing with their stance on homosexuality. Many Christian schools force faculty and students to sign &quot;contracts&quot; that oblige them to oppose homosexuality. If I&#039;m remembering the story correctly, recently the mother of a gay son was fired for refusing to sign one of these types of agreements.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi CollegeJay,<br />
Christian colleges fire staff all of the time for not agreeing with their stance on homosexuality. Many Christian schools force faculty and students to sign &#8220;contracts&#8221; that oblige them to oppose homosexuality. If I&#8217;m remembering the story correctly, recently the mother of a gay son was fired for refusing to sign one of these types of agreements.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: College Jay</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/08/52575/comment-page-1#comment-227466</link>
		<dc:creator>College Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2013 18:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=52575#comment-227466</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with Andrew here. I doubt any aspect of McCaskill&#039;s job description mentioned her political activities. I&#039;ve met many well-meaning straight people who say they don&#039;t have a problem with homosexuality, but disagree with gay marriage. I&#039;ve met many LGBT people who do not view gay marriage as the grandiose civil rights cause that it&#039;s often made out to be. Yes, you might say that it&#039;s illogical, but it happens.

If a Christian college fired a staff member for signing a petition that supported gay marriage, the gay community would explode with rage. Yes, her job as a diversity coordinator does call things into question, and I do wonder how she&#039;ll be effective with LGBT students after so many no longer trust her.

Then again, I would hate for my job to be dependent upon whether or not people &quot;perceive&quot; me to be a certain way, whether I am or not. Frankly, I&#039;ve never seen much point in university diversity offices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Andrew here. I doubt any aspect of McCaskill&#8217;s job description mentioned her political activities. I&#8217;ve met many well-meaning straight people who say they don&#8217;t have a problem with homosexuality, but disagree with gay marriage. I&#8217;ve met many LGBT people who do not view gay marriage as the grandiose civil rights cause that it&#8217;s often made out to be. Yes, you might say that it&#8217;s illogical, but it happens.</p>
<p>If a Christian college fired a staff member for signing a petition that supported gay marriage, the gay community would explode with rage. Yes, her job as a diversity coordinator does call things into question, and I do wonder how she&#8217;ll be effective with LGBT students after so many no longer trust her.</p>
<p>Then again, I would hate for my job to be dependent upon whether or not people &#8220;perceive&#8221; me to be a certain way, whether I am or not. Frankly, I&#8217;ve never seen much point in university diversity offices.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/08/52575/comment-page-1#comment-226924</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2013 09:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=52575#comment-226924</guid>
		<description>And Neon, no, they wouldn&#039;t.  They&#039;d sue the living shit out of their employer.  And they&#039;d win.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Neon, no, they wouldn&#8217;t.  They&#8217;d sue the living shit out of their employer.  And they&#8217;d win.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/08/52575/comment-page-1#comment-226921</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2013 09:40:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=52575#comment-226921</guid>
		<description>Hey FirstAndrew... Just Original Andrew here.  And no, I comment on lots of things here :)  I just don&#039;t make it a full-time job.  I find some of the thinking around this issue reflective of disturbing lack of careful thought, self-reflection, or critical analysis, or some combination thereof, so I was at pains to turn into Granny and wag a finger.  We wouldn&#039;t tolerate being fired because we signed a petition, regardless of the nature of said petition.  It&#039;s our right.  

My bosses get to control more than 33% of my life - and I&#039;m lucky, I have a great employer... there are folks with their pee breaks scheduled, who don&#039;t get paid for overtime, who earn no benefits.  

But as much as I like my job, I&#039;ll be damned if I&#039;m going to turn every last shred of my dignity and control over to them - whether through allowing them to decide what kinds of medical conditions they find morally acceptable to insure, what bumper stickers they deem suitable for my car... or what I do in my church, in the ballot box, or when confronted with a petition.  

And I&#039;m going to scream bloody murder when any of you all try to do it to me.

And please yes, that is precisely what you are arguing for when you advocate for her employer to have the right to step in on this issue.  Because it is a double-edged sword, and you cannot predict where that kind of thing goes.

Anyone here remember how GSA groups earned the right to suit the crap out of schools that banned them?  

It was when anti-gay Christian groups sued to have the right to meet on school grounds after-hours.  The courts allowed it, provided the government remained neutral on content.  The Christians never imagined that they were opening the door for desperately needed GSA clubs across the country.  

So... what are you opening the door to here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey FirstAndrew&#8230; Just Original Andrew here.  And no, I comment on lots of things here :)  I just don&#8217;t make it a full-time job.  I find some of the thinking around this issue reflective of disturbing lack of careful thought, self-reflection, or critical analysis, or some combination thereof, so I was at pains to turn into Granny and wag a finger.  We wouldn&#8217;t tolerate being fired because we signed a petition, regardless of the nature of said petition.  It&#8217;s our right.  </p>
<p>My bosses get to control more than 33% of my life &#8211; and I&#8217;m lucky, I have a great employer&#8230; there are folks with their pee breaks scheduled, who don&#8217;t get paid for overtime, who earn no benefits.  </p>
<p>But as much as I like my job, I&#8217;ll be damned if I&#8217;m going to turn every last shred of my dignity and control over to them &#8211; whether through allowing them to decide what kinds of medical conditions they find morally acceptable to insure, what bumper stickers they deem suitable for my car&#8230; or what I do in my church, in the ballot box, or when confronted with a petition.  </p>
<p>And I&#8217;m going to scream bloody murder when any of you all try to do it to me.</p>
<p>And please yes, that is precisely what you are arguing for when you advocate for her employer to have the right to step in on this issue.  Because it is a double-edged sword, and you cannot predict where that kind of thing goes.</p>
<p>Anyone here remember how GSA groups earned the right to suit the crap out of schools that banned them?  </p>
<p>It was when anti-gay Christian groups sued to have the right to meet on school grounds after-hours.  The courts allowed it, provided the government remained neutral on content.  The Christians never imagined that they were opening the door for desperately needed GSA clubs across the country.  </p>
<p>So&#8230; what are you opening the door to here?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stephen Mead</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/08/52575/comment-page-1#comment-226425</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Mead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2013 23:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=52575#comment-226425</guid>
		<description>Those who are unhappy with the decision, students, parents, faculty, may want to consider starting a petition on Change.org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those who are unhappy with the decision, students, parents, faculty, may want to consider starting a petition on Change.org</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TampaZeke</title>
		<link>http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/01/08/52575/comment-page-1#comment-226385</link>
		<dc:creator>TampaZeke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2013 22:59:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=52575#comment-226385</guid>
		<description>I grew up in Mississippi in the late sixties, seventies and eighties and I&#039;ve NEVER met a person who self-identified as racist and I&#039;ve never met anyone who didn&#039;t take offense at being called racist, including my parents who have never used any other word but the N-word to refer to black people.

I think Ms. McCaskill is suffering from the same kind of delusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I grew up in Mississippi in the late sixties, seventies and eighties and I&#8217;ve NEVER met a person who self-identified as racist and I&#8217;ve never met anyone who didn&#8217;t take offense at being called racist, including my parents who have never used any other word but the N-word to refer to black people.</p>
<p>I think Ms. McCaskill is suffering from the same kind of delusion.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
