Comments on: Gallup asks how many gays http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/02/18/53849 News, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric Tue, 21 May 2013 14:44:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Kevin M http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/02/18/53849/comment-page-2#comment-253329 Kevin M Sun, 24 Feb 2013 02:50:44 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=53849#comment-253329 I think that estimates around 3% are almost always low. When you look at more granular data (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/10/20/opinion/darker-rainbow.html) you see rates as high as 6% (in young men of color). Older and white men are less likely to identify as gay to survey takers, but not less likely to actually be gay; you'd expect a random distribution of gays among all ethnic groups, so rates that differ more than 2% between white men and black men mean something funny is going on. The sheer number of older, white men who are unlikely to identify as gay to a survey taker are depressing the average. I think that estimates around 3% are almost always low. When you look at more granular data (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/10/20/opinion/darker-rainbow.html) you see rates as high as 6% (in young men of color). Older and white men are less likely to identify as gay to survey takers, but not less likely to actually be gay; you’d expect a random distribution of gays among all ethnic groups, so rates that differ more than 2% between white men and black men mean something funny is going on. The sheer number of older, white men who are unlikely to identify as gay to a survey taker are depressing the average.

]]> By: Priya Lynn http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/02/18/53849/comment-page-2#comment-253206 Priya Lynn Sat, 23 Feb 2013 04:36:07 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=53849#comment-253206 Nathaniel, as long as I don't actually try to practice medicine, why does it matter if I tell people I'm a doctor? Nathaniel, as long as I don’t actually try to practice medicine, why does it matter if I tell people I’m a doctor?

]]> By: Priya Lynn http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/02/18/53849/comment-page-1#comment-253203 Priya Lynn Sat, 23 Feb 2013 04:17:38 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=53849#comment-253203 No Nathaniel, its not a matter of false equivalence. In both cases a person is claiming to be something they're not. May not matter to you if people are truthful, but it does to me. No Nathaniel, its not a matter of false equivalence. In both cases a person is claiming to be something they’re not. May not matter to you if people are truthful, but it does to me.

]]> By: Nathaniel http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/02/18/53849/comment-page-1#comment-253190 Nathaniel Sat, 23 Feb 2013 02:13:02 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=53849#comment-253190 PL, that is a false equivalence. A degree is earned after years of hard work and is a matter of provable record. Until we invent a way to quantify the degree of every person's same- and opposite-sex attractions, no such comparison can be made with orientation. However, you still haven't answered the question. Why does it even matter that everybody accurately reports the least little bit of same-sex attraction? PL, that is a false equivalence. A degree is earned after years of hard work and is a matter of provable record. Until we invent a way to quantify the degree of every person’s same- and opposite-sex attractions, no such comparison can be made with orientation. However, you still haven’t answered the question. Why does it even matter that everybody accurately reports the least little bit of same-sex attraction?

]]> By: Priya Lynn http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/02/18/53849/comment-page-1#comment-253024 Priya Lynn Fri, 22 Feb 2013 19:01:10 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=53849#comment-253024 Mark, I can see a gay guy doing that due to societal pressure to be heterosexual, but I can't see a heterosexual man choosing to go against the stigma of being gay to force himself to have sex with a man, other than as we discussed unless he was being paid to do so. Mark, I can see a gay guy doing that due to societal pressure to be heterosexual, but I can’t see a heterosexual man choosing to go against the stigma of being gay to force himself to have sex with a man, other than as we discussed unless he was being paid to do so.

]]> By: Mark F. http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/02/18/53849/comment-page-1#comment-253021 Mark F. Fri, 22 Feb 2013 18:53:37 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=53849#comment-253021 Priya, I'm pretty sure I could get myself aroused enough to have sex with a woman if I had to. I don't find the idea totally revolting. That does not mean I'm bisexual. Priya,

I’m pretty sure I could get myself aroused enough to have sex with a woman if I had to. I don’t find the idea totally revolting. That does not mean I’m bisexual.

]]> By: Mark F. http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/02/18/53849/comment-page-1#comment-253020 Mark F. Fri, 22 Feb 2013 18:51:24 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=53849#comment-253020 "How can there even be any arousal if there is no attraction?" A certain percentage of straight guys can close their eyes and think of a women while having sex. “How can there even be any arousal if there is no attraction?”

A certain percentage of straight guys can close their eyes and think of a women while having sex.

]]> By: Priya Lynn http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/02/18/53849/comment-page-1#comment-252834 Priya Lynn Thu, 21 Feb 2013 23:26:20 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=53849#comment-252834 "So why begrudge others their own definitions of their orientation?". Because who you're attracted to determines your orientation, not what you wish to be thought of as. Its no different than same sex attracted people claiming they're exgay - No, you're not, if you're same sex attracted you're still gay or bisexual regardless of what you want to call yourself. Its no different than me calling myself a doctor because I want people to think of me that way even though I've never been to medical school. “So why begrudge others their own definitions of their orientation?”.

Because who you’re attracted to determines your orientation, not what you wish to be thought of as. Its no different than same sex attracted people claiming they’re exgay – No, you’re not, if you’re same sex attracted you’re still gay or bisexual regardless of what you want to call yourself.

Its no different than me calling myself a doctor because I want people to think of me that way even though I’ve never been to medical school.

]]> By: Nathaniel http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/02/18/53849/comment-page-1#comment-252828 Nathaniel Thu, 21 Feb 2013 22:56:30 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=53849#comment-252828 Again, we come back to definitions. I was using a broad definition of what a sexual encounter might be. Could it include college roommates who watched a porn together, but ("I swear") no touching was involved? Sexual encounters, much like one's own orientation, begins to be in the eye of the beholder. PL, you emphasize my point by throwing anybody with the least little attraction for the same sex into the bisexual category. You have made it too broad and meaningless. So why begrudge others their own definitions of their orientation? Again, we come back to definitions. I was using a broad definition of what a sexual encounter might be. Could it include college roommates who watched a porn together, but (“I swear”) no touching was involved? Sexual encounters, much like one’s own orientation, begins to be in the eye of the beholder. PL, you emphasize my point by throwing anybody with the least little attraction for the same sex into the bisexual category. You have made it too broad and meaningless. So why begrudge others their own definitions of their orientation?

]]> By: Varburg http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2013/02/18/53849/comment-page-1#comment-252678 Varburg Thu, 21 Feb 2013 02:32:41 +0000 http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/?p=53849#comment-252678 Maybe this won't been seen, since it's so many replies deep, but the linked article contradicts itself. It says: "except for the District of Columbia, all are below ±2 percentage points". This means that the rankings are not within the margin of error. It's not valid to just add the margins of error when comparing two values when the samples are independent. If the margins of error are equal, the margin of error for the sum or difference is the original multiplied by sqrt(2). See section 3 of this document: http://abcnews.go.com/images/PollingUnit/MOEFranklin.pdf If the ±3 figure is correct, the margin of error for the sum is 4.2. If the "below ±2" figure is correct, the margin of error for the sum is below 2.8. Maybe this won’t been seen, since it’s so many replies deep, but the linked article contradicts itself. It says: “except for the District of Columbia, all are below ±2 percentage points”. This means that the rankings are not within the margin of error. It’s not valid to just add the margins of error when comparing two values when the samples are independent. If the margins of error are equal, the margin of error for the sum or difference is the original multiplied by sqrt(2).

See section 3 of this document:
http://abcnews.go.com/images/PollingUnit/MOEFranklin.pdf

If the ±3 figure is correct, the margin of error for the sum is 4.2.

If the “below ±2″ figure is correct, the margin of error for the sum is below 2.8.

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