Box Turtle Bulletin

In Iran, homosexuality is a death penalty offense. While I’m not a believer in the death penalty, if nations want to make it a crime to engage in homo & lesbian behaviors, then that is fine with me.

It’s sad that there’s blind faith surrounding this. There is less homosexuality in Iran, because those sexual behaviors are illegal.

Vi Agara

Who let this vermin into the US? Homeland security asleep at the wheel again?

Martin Lanigan

Dear Anonymous,

That you would think that it is OK for any country to criminalize another person’s sexuality is pretty shocking.

I acknowledge that sexual orientation is not yet a part of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, however, the granting of consultative status to gay and lesbian NGOs is a positive step. Additionally, you must be aware of the EU’s progresive stance on recognizing sexual orientation as a protected ground against discrimination.

Out of curiousity, what penalties do you think are appropriate to gay and lesbain behaviours? Would you also be in favour of similar penalties for religious behaviours (e.g. being a Christian). If not, why not?

Robguy

If we could invoke the death penalty for heterosexuality we might bring the population into a more managable balance. Gays and lesbians have plenty of children, and even heteros could procreate without sex. That would be fine with me.

No – it would not.

Ken R

Biblically, we could stone to death those that have divorced and remarried since Jesus considered it Adultery. That is of course if one hasn’t committed adultery against the other already. And Adultery was punishable by stoning. So to be consistant with Biblical rule we must enact other punishments besides those for the homosexual. I would bet my life on at least 50% of the US population would have to be stoned to death including my own sister and brother for Adultery.

anonymous

Hi Martin:

I’m not religous & I’m against homosexuality & GID for reasons unrelated to religion. so your point is moot. In Iran, the incidence of men & their wives practicing sodomy & oral sex is less, because those sexual behaviors r also crimes. I have no problem with these laws either. It’s either straight normal sex or celibacy.

Not to rerun a topic that has been talked about so many times, but I share Pres. Mahmud Ahmadinejad’s view that their is something wrong with homo & lesbian sexual behaviors. No, they should not be executed but people who engage in certain sexual behaviors should go to jail. Yes, it’s micro-managing people’s sex lives, but so what?

Whether or not their attractions change, it’s in their best interest to be celibate & scientists should search for the cures of homosexuality & GID. If homosexuals & lesbians don’t want to be executed in Iran, then don’t engage in those sexual behaviors. They knew the laws, but chose to break it. Hearing Mahmud Ahmadinejad decry homosexuality is a nice change.

Jason

I was going to post a scathing reply until I read this part:

“Yes, itâ€™s micro-managing peopleâ€™s sex lives, but so what?”

Then I realized what kind of person I was dealing with, and that no response from me was going to make any sort of difference.

Ben in oakland

estion for mr. anonymous; how do we know that you don’t engage in those behaviors.

Ken R

Hearing Mahmud Ahmadinejad decry homosexuality is a nice change.

And not to mention that the Holocaust never happened was a nice change as well.

*rolls eyes*

Martin Lanigan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_religious_freedom_in_Iran

Hi Anonymous,

For the record, I did not state that you are religous. Many religious people would be ashamed to publicly support such an oppressive regime. Apparently, you are not one of those.

I am still curious to know what sources you utilize to back your statements about Iranian sexual practices. You claim that there is less sodomy and oral sex among heterosexual couples. Less compared to what? Is this based on your personal observations or do you have actual data? Please provide a link if possible.

You also note that there is something wrong with homosexual practices. What exactly? Is this just your opinion, or do you have any – you know – empirical evidence?

Finally, you have not answered my question. The persecution of non-Shia religious practices in Iran is a relevant point. You can find out about this here:

Iran exhibits a general intolerance for basic human rights – this intolerance extends to homosexualtiy as well. Since homosexuality and religion are both “behaviours” and both have some recognition in human rights codes, I thought this might be an interesting way to explore your provocative statements.

You appear to be a big fan of Iran (and its President) when it comes to the treatment of homosexuals. It is only natural for us to wonder if your fascination with intolerant attitudes extends to other subjects?

Personally I want to say that it is so comforting to know that you don’t think innocent gays and lesbians should be put to death. Knowing that people like you might be my neighbour fills my heart with the glow of human warmth.

anonymous

Hi Martin:

Your thoughts are noted. No, Ben, I don’t engage in those behaviors. I know 42 year old virgins.

As far as Pres. Mahmud Ahmadinejad, his views on the Holocaust would be best described as indifferent. Yes, he has denied it, but he has also said that it’s a European matter & unrelated to the matters in the Middle East. I once wanted to be a history teacher & I know about the 2 World Wars, KOrean War & the Vietnam War.

I do agree with Ahmadinejad that history revisionists should not be censored. They can SOMETIMES be right if revisionists can find things others haven’t. Recently, historians have discussed whether Stalin was going to strike 1st based on declassified documents & Operation Barbarossa was incidentally impeding a Soviet plan to conquer Europe.

But I’m not a fan of Ahmadinejad. I don’t agree with Ahmadinejad seeking to punish those with differing religious views & though I’m neutral on the death penalty, I would have no problem if it was no longer used. I do agree with his views of sex. While I’m not going to lobby my legislators to pass laws against Homo&lesbian activities, if legislatures want to make them crimes, then I’m all for it.

The way I see it, having laws against certain sexual behaviors is synonymous to having laws on what animals 1 can hunt or not. I’m not an animal rights activist, but I would support laws which forbid hunting pumas, wolves & bears & require that 1 may only hunt quail or deer & that marksmanship must be required for hunters. Ideally every1 should be vegetarians but given that most people eat meat, @least require that animals are humanely hunted. In Iran, you can’t keep a dog as a pet & dogs can only be used for military & police purposes. While I don’t agree with this, I do believe that they must make it a crime to own a python & I believe in Iran, it’s a crime to own a python.

Yes, Mahmud Ahmadinejad is anti-Semitic, but I agree with him that the U.S. should stay out of the MIddle East & it was Jewish groups who pushed for U.S. intervention in Iraq. Muslims & Jews often hate eachother though they share so much in common incl. circumcision & the fact that they don’t eat pork. Mahmud Ahmadinejad is right on nuclear power for electricity because nuclear powerplants don’t emit greenhouse gases & generate alot of electricity. Nuclear power must be done safely. Mahmud Ahmadinejad is a religous nut, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t agree with him on some topics.

The main reason I support Mahmud’s comments about homosexuality is because the press gives an often 1 sided account of it. We need more people saying that they see something wrong with certain sexual behaviors & not face repercussions. If homosexual groups didn’t push their views on others, then maybe I wouldn’t care so much about their sexual behaviors, though I think it’s bad. But considering that homosexual groups use the press & workplace to give 1 sided views, it’s a nice change to hear Ahmadinejad say something that they don’t want to hear. When homosexuality is neutrally discussed w/o censorhsip, then I’ll not listen to what Ahmadinejad says.

Randi Schimnosky

Anonymous said “If homosexual groups didnâ€™t push their views on others, then maybe I wouldnâ€™t care so much about their sexual behaviors”.

How ironic and hypocritical. No gays are trying to force you to be gay or limit your heterosexual behaviors, it is you who is trying to push, not just your views onto gays but trying to control their sexuality.

Only in bizzaro world can someone like you insist on controlling gays sex lives and then claim they’re victimizing you when they’ve done nothing of the sort.

Gays have the same right to their sex lives that you do. Your push for inequality is immoral.

Jody

Anon, you make a request to use the tool of science to find cures for homosexuality, when it’s science itself has found that homosexuality is neither an illness nor an aberration.

Sometimes there are two sides to an issue, such as whether Iraq would be better or worse if we left. It’s fallacious though to think there are always two sides to an issue — the Holocaust did happen and the normality of homosexuality has been definitively settled.

While you are free to argue otherwise, you are also free to drain the Pacific with a thimble. The futility of both actions is rather apparent.

Martin Lanigan

Thank you for your candour Anonymous.

I think we pretty much know where you stand, and that I should always wear bright colours whilst strolling through any sylvan forests.

Jason

“The way I see it, having laws against certain sexual behaviors is synonymous to having laws on what animals 1 can hunt or not.”

You’re comparing sex to hunting? Let’s see, one involves adults in consensual activities behind closed doors. The other involves a human attacking an animal for sport.

One involves, by it’s very nature, the maiming and killing of another animal, whereas the other is mutual gratification. I don’t know what to find more disturbing: your linking them together or that you think they are both something that government has a responsibility to regulate.

Timothy Kincaid

OK, guys. I think it’s time to heed the old maxim that one ought not feed the trolls.

Ken R

The main reason I support Mahmudâ€™s comments about homosexuality is because the press gives an often 1 sided account of it. We need more people saying that they see something wrong with certain sexual behaviors & not face repercussions. If homosexual groups didnâ€™t push their views on others, then maybe I wouldnâ€™t care so much about their sexual behaviors, though I think itâ€™s bad. But considering that homosexual groups use the press & workplace to give 1 sided views, itâ€™s a nice change to hear Ahmadinejad say something that they donâ€™t want to hear. When homosexuality is neutrally discussed w/o censorhsip, then Iâ€™ll not listen to what Ahmadinejad says.

If you replace the word homosexual with blacks, Jews, or any other group that has been marginalized in the past it tells quite a bit about what Anon really is saying.

Perhaps this is the former poster missionaryway? Sounds like him.

Jody

B-b-buuuttt Tiiiiiiiimmmmmmm!!!!!!!

anonymous

Jody & Randi:

When incidents such as Chris Kempling happen, where he is punished for comments he makes in papers outside work hours, then it’s pushing views & it’s nice that Mahmud Ahmadinejad is bold enough to say what he means.

Mahmud Ahmadinejad is right in that there are parts of the Holocaust which are open to ?, though I differ with revisionists on most parts. It’s possible that Hitler did not know of the gas vans, because he left it to his henchmen & Himmler forbade discussions of Jews being killed before Hitler. The reports often had euphemisms such as evacuation instead of extermination, because Hitler didn’t want to know exact details. Also Hitler rejected all ideas to use the nerve gases Sarin, Tabun & Soman, which are deadlier than Zyklon B. The reasons are not conclusive. They often say it’s because Hitler was wounded by mustard gas during WW1 & the fear of the other side using nerve gases, but Hitler rejected nerve gases even as the war was lost & German cities were destroyed. Germany & Japan weren’t trustworthy allies & futuristic Japanese weapons were based on German technology.

Since Jody raised the medical society, keep in mind that psychologists in Iran are going to have different views of homosexuality than psychologists here in the U.S. Yes, they’ll have their biases, but if they discover the cures for homosexuality & GID, then it’s for the better.

You limit the discussion to say that Ahmadinejad is against homosexual behaviors, when he is against MOST sexual behaviors, other than straight normal sex. Ahmadinejad is also against sterilization surgeries such as vasectomies. Homosexuals accuse me of people like me or Ahmadinejad of being puerile & controlling other people’s sex lives, but it’s for society’s good. Incidentally, I believe that people who engage in sodomy & oral sex must pay higher medical insurance rates, just as fat people do.

Mahmud Ahmadinejad has charisma. He knows how to stir the masses. Ho Chi Minh, Idi Amin & Hitler also have charisma. Yes, their charisma is usu. for bad, but even dicators can sometimes do good things. Hitler signed advanced animal welfare laws & he signed laws against tobacco use, so though Hitler engulfed Europe in a war which killed millions, so he had 2 values. Similarly, though Ahmadinejad is a mad man, Ahmadinejad has 1 value-he is against homosexuality. Both of them are comparable to a Geico commercial where 1 can say, yes they’re bad men but the good news is that they signed animal welfare laws, anti-tobacco laws & decried homosexuality.

Brad Carlson

To the person who said: “It’s OK if countries criminalize homosexual behavior” I ask WHY?

WHY is it OK to criminalize behavior between consenting adults that harms no one? (And don’t talk about AIDS: lesbians have the lowest incidence of AIDS of any group, and gay men need not get it if they have proper information.)

WHY is it OK to allow bigotry to dictate public policy? WHY should any kind of love be criminalized? What many people seem to fail to realize is that gay people love each other just like heterosexuals. To deny people the right to express their love (in PRIVATE no less!) is absolutely barbaric.

Iran and the backward thinking countries that deny the existence of sexual minorities are the criminals. Just as they deny the Holocaust, these folks are ignorant and hateful.

A Real Christian

The first commenter is scarey! They think it should be criminal to be gay. Should it be criminal be different than others in other ways as well, like sprital views, careers, their sex, their race. Get real, this is not 1900 anymore, we live in a modern world and more and more countries accept people for their differences where no hate is acceptable. USA is a bit behind on Equal Rights.

Mark

It should be noted that many Muslims are totally puzzled by the idea of someone having a homosexual identity. A man who wants to be penetrated by another man is considered to be “like a woman,” so gay sex is sort of like heterosexual sex. A gay friend from Algeria confirms this. He’s a handsome young man, but bearded and hairy so he’s not attractive to the guys who are looking for a feminine looking guy. Also, virtually everyone equates man to man sex with anal sex, which my friend does not enjoy. And the idea of two men having a sexual and romantic relationship is considered weird.

anonymous

Once again Brad & Real Christian, Ahmadinejad & people like me don’t believe in jailing people because of their orientation & in nations such as Iran, people aren’t jailed for sexual orientation. They’re jailed for sexual behaviors. If some1 of the homosexual or straight orientation never engages in homo & lesbian sexual behaviors, then they won’t be jailed.

If a nation wants to jail a man & a woman for engaging in sodomy & oral sex, then that is fine. It’s either straight normal sex (penis entering vagina) or no sex & imposing celibacy on homosexuals & lesbians is what helps them. Why is it bigotry to be against kinky sex? The world will be a better place if they found the cures for homosexuality, GID, sodomy & oral sex.

Having laws against homo & lesbian sexual behaviors, along with laws against other kinky sexual behaviors are a moot point if they discovered the 100% cures. Even Simon LeVay who is hostile to reparative therapy said in 2001 that if homosexuals & lesbians want to have r.t., he will support their right & if reparative therapists want to find cures, then he will support them, though he has a dim view.

Having sex is not a civil right & Ahmadinejad would say that homosexuals are not comparable to Black people. Incidentally, many African nations have laws against certain sexual activities. As noted, Ahmadinejad believes in telling people what sexual behaviors they can or can’t engage in. It’s not about micro-managing people’s sexual orientations, it’s about micro-managing people’s sexual behaviors & I see nothing wrong with it.

Jim Burroway

“Itâ€™s either straight normal sex (penis entering vagina) or no sex”

Are you suggesting laws against masturbation, oral sex, frottage, or any other sort of genital contact, including such contact among heterosexual couples, or is it just the homos you want to hold to this “behavioral” standard?

You know what anonymous? I have a same-gender partner. Under your laws, I would be jailed. I’m not buying your attempt at a distintion between orientation and behavior, anymore than I’d buy anyone else’s distinction between love and behavior.

If you want to spout that kind of nonsense, I suggest you start your own blog. Or join up with other like-minded nutcases.

Jody

Jim, I’m actually wondering if it isn’t his Cameron-ness cloaked in mystery.

I mean, it reads just as insanely…

Randi Schimnosky

Anonymous said “Having sex is not a civil right”. According to your logic sleeping is not a civil right either and that’s where you’re wrong. Your 9th amendment says that rights not enumerated in the constitution are retained by the people. This includes such obvious human needs as the right to have sex.

Anonymous said “imposing celibacy on homosexuals & lesbians is what helps them.”.

Nonsense. Sex in a committed same sex relationship is a pleasure to both partners just as it is in a heterosexual relationship. Depriving someone of a pleasure that harms no one most certainly doesn’t help them in any way, it deprives them of happiness which is their right. All the major mental and physical health organizations agree that it is normal and healthy for a minority of the population to be gay. As long as gays aren’t hurting you its their right to do as they please. You have no right to control any life other than your own. Your attempts to force your will on people who aren’t hurting you are by definition immoral.

Timothy Kincaid