Box Turtle Bulletin

Bravo, Lt. Choi. Bravo. And I am straight.

No it shouldn’t have, Edwin. It was a stupid law and we’ve lost 17 years because of it with thousands of people needlessly effected by it. Yet the sight of two active-duty military officers in full uniform pulling a stunt like this at the official residence of the CiC? That’s not right. What else can military officers do to protest the CiC and we just excuse it? What about those sympathetic to the TEA Party movement? We have civilian control for a reason.

I support the cause but find this stunt to be more than a little disturbing.

Richard Rush

When oppressed minorities limit themselves to playing by all the rules established by their oppressors they shouldn’t be surprised when they get more oppression. Can anyone name an oppressed minority that has received equal rights and status by limiting themselves to asking politely? There may be some, but I just can’t think of any right now.

Lt. Daniel Choi is a hero, in my opinion.

Ben in Oakland

Dan Choi comment:

There was no freer moment than being in that prison. It was freeing for me, and I thought of all of the other people that were still trapped – that were still handcuffed and fettered in their hearts. And we might have been caged up physically, but the message was very clear to all of the people who think that equality can be purchased with a donation, or with a cocktail party, or with tokens, that are serving in a public role. We are worth more than tokens. We have absolute value. And when the person who is oppressed by his own country wants to find out how to get that dignity back – being chained up and being arrested – that’s how you get your dignity conferred back upon you. And so I think that by actions, my call is to every leader – not just talking gay leaders – I’m talking any leader who believes in America, and the promises of America can be manifest. We’re gonna do it again. And we’re going to keep doing it until the promises are manifest. And we will not stop. This is a very clear message to President Obama and any other leader who supposes to talk for the American promise and the American people. We will not go away.”

The man is a hero.

Scott P.

Could someone please clarify something for me? I thought both these gentlemen were expelled by the military. Or have they been reinstated?

Timothy Kincaid

Scott P.,

Choi is still in processing.

Richard: And where do you wish to draw the line? Start allowing servicemembers to pull stunts like this whenever they feel its necessary and what will the results be? If servicemembers disagree with public policy and feel strongly enough about it that they cannot refrain from speaking out publically, they need to resign or seek discharge before doing so. It is not their place to be questioning public policy while in uniform, let alone publically protesting it at the official residence of the Commander-in-Chief! That sets a VERY dangerous precedent and runs the risk of changing the military into something none of us would like.

Look, I don’t know Choi & Pietrangelo personally. I know a couple of fellas I respect that seem to think well of Choi (not sure if they know Pietrangelo), which puts him up a notch to me without having even met the man. Choi has been very impressive in interviews, speeches and online. Yet this stunt I cannot agree with. If he had resigned his commission first and then did this, I’d have no problem with it, but not while still in the service. That was wrong.

Ben Mathis

So John, how do you feel about the literal brigade of right wing conservative generals that comment on policies, court cases, etc, while in uniform. how about just this week General Jack Sheehan’s comment about the dutch having gay servicemembers? Seems it’s only when grunts want to say something that it’s not alright, and even then only when it’s not a republican talking point. Soldiers are involved in politics all day long and no one says a word till it’s about gay rights.

Sheehan is an ass but is retired so can freely speak his mind, unpleasant as it is in this case. There is a big difference between an active duty servicemember being asked their personal opinion on a subject, especially by Congress, and taking an active role in opposing public policy. Soldiers are free to participate in politics privately, they are NOT free to do so publically especially against established policy. I don’t give a damn what the subject matter is because that’s irrelevant. Tell me, would you find it acceptable if that “birther” officer (name escapes me) who filed suit against the president (and rightly lost) because he didn’t recognize Obama as the valid CiC chaining himself to the White House? Where exactly do you draw the line with these stunts by active duty personnel? How exactly do you see this helping repeal of DADT?

johnathan

John,

Let me first process this by saying I don’t know the first thing about the military — its proceedures nor its rankings, et cetera. Having said that, and with the understanding Sheehan is retired, why did he not tesitify in a simple suit and tie? He appeared in a military suit with all of his pins attached. Does this not also present a representation of the military uniform, in some form or another? In otherwords — retired or not — does Sheehan, when in said appearance, not also speak for the Military Apparatus? Really, when it comes down to it, how is his apperance in that “get up” any different than Choi’s, save for the fact that he is supposedly “retired?” Because, as far as I am concered, when I see “retired” Generals appering like that, speaking on behalf of current military protocol, they are no longer retired.

Just MY opinion. Take it at that value and level.

I only read about Sheehan’s remarks, I didn’t see them on video or a picture of his testimony. If he made his remarks while in uniform that makes them even more despicable. Retired personnel are allowed to wear the uniform in certain circumstances, testimony before Congress would be one of them. Yet as asinine as his comments were he was asked to testify and give his opinion on DADT, which is not the same thing as publically protesting public policy by chaining oneself in full uniform to the official residence of the CiC. I just heard elsewhere that Pietrangelo was actually out of the service at the time which if that’s the case while his participation in this stunt is controversial it’s far more acceptable than Choi’s.

johnathan

Let me rephrase my comments — I didn’t see them either, but assumed from the photograph in this article. Just after posting, I thought, “Maybe this picture is just a stock photo?” So, I don’t know whether he appeared in uniform or not. Does anyone on this board know?

Nevertheless, to Choi and Pietrangelo, I give my full support.

Richard W. Fitch

Yes, this is NOT just a stock photo. They were uniformed as you see them. btw, this is the same courthouse that a few days earlier welcomed applicants for Marriage Equality to get their licenses. About 150 same-sex partners applied.

johnathan

Richard, no, no…I don’t mean Choi and Pietrangelo…I mean Sheehan. Was that just a stock photo of Sheehan? Was Sheehan in uniform when HE testified? Does anyone know about that? I have no doubt about Choi and Pietrangelo appearing in uniform — and I fully applaud that necessary and courageous act.

Ben in Oakland

Personally, I am wondering if sheehan wasu nder oath when he testified, and given the Dutch government’s response, whether he can be prosecuted for lying under oath.

Richard Rush

Sheehan was NOT wearing a uniform during the senate testimony, although I don’t really care one way or the other.
Here is the video.

johnathan

Richard, thank you for letting me know. And you’re right. I, too, care less. He is an a$$h*le in, or out, of uniform.

Timothy Kincaid

A question about Choi and Pietrangelo,

these look to me just to be camouflage. Since this sort of attire can be purchased at all kinds of places and does not appear to have any insignia, is this actually a “uniform”?

In other words, if Choi wanted to appear in uniform, why wouldn’t he use his dress blues (or whatever he has) rather than what you’d wear to go play paintball?

Perhaps one of our readers who have served can answer.

Richard W. Fitch

Timothy: The pics that I have found of Choi at the HRC rally show him in camo with his name and various military insignia. The first pics at the fence no longer show them. I don’t know at what point this change actually took place.

Richard W. Fitch

Timothy – just got another pic of Choi just before the cuffs went on and he still had his patches, can’t see Jim. A comment elsewhere indicated that they went into the courthouse with and were taken before release.