Box Turtle Bulletin
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobby“Now you must raise your children up in a world where that union of man and box turtle is on the same legal footing as man and wife…”
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobbyJuly 22nd, 2008
Her fantasy looks something like this:
I can argue why marriage matters for the continuation of civilization. I can tell you about every study that shows without a doubt that children do best with both a mother and a father. But let me cut to the chase: If we don’t win the marriage battle, now on the ballot in California, Florida and Arizona, people who disagree with homosexual behavior will … go to jail. [Ellipses in the original]
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a. mcewen
July 22nd, 2008
Every time members of the anti-gay industry talks about those “studies that prove a child does better in a home with a mother and father,” they always omit the fact that the studies never looked at same sex households.
Evan
July 22nd, 2008
I’m beginning to wonder if the appropriate response to these mindless twits is to just ignore them.
I mean, more and more of the population “gets it” every day, and the opposition is dying faster than they can perpetuate their morally bankrupt ideas…
Zachary Peters
July 23rd, 2008
Interesting comment, especially since it is not that long ago when sodomy laws were abolished.
Michael
July 23rd, 2008
Wait, how is this a fantasy? Aren’t we celebrating when bigots like that photographer and that printer get fined? The author of this essay cites several cases that have been discussed here. I know all or most cases involve fines only, but isn’t jail time the inevitable goal we should be pushing for? I thought we were supposed to be happy when Christians get smacked for hate crimes. Now it’s a fantasy?
GDad
July 23rd, 2008
It’s not so much that people who “disagree with homosexual behavior” will go to jail. It’s that people who actively discriminate against LGTBQ(etc.) people or who actively seek to harm them will have some kind of legal penalty.
I don’t like actors who take stupid roles, but I don’t think I’m going to jail for refusing to see Talledega Nights. If it ever comes to that, I’ll move elsewhere.
Eric
July 23rd, 2008
“Wait, how is this a fantasy? Aren’t we celebrating when bigots like that photographer and that printer get fined? The author of this essay cites several cases that have been discussed here. I know all or most cases involve fines only, but isn’t jail time the inevitable goal we should be pushing for? I thought we were supposed to be happy when Christians get smacked for hate crimes. Now it’s a fantasy?”
Yes. It’s a fantasy. There is a huge difference between being charged with a hate crime, which essentially is an additional charge added to other legal charges; e.g. vandalism that is also a hate crime results in a more severe penalty, and between what this woman is describing.
What she is describing is the Evil Homosexual Menace rounding up the Good Christians who are peaceably voicing their disagreements and throwing them in jail. It’s such nonsense that I can’t really believe that you’re giving that credence.
El Rose
July 23rd, 2008
Look. The jail term may be extreme, but I don’t think we can argue that the best place for kids is with their mom and dad.
El Rose
Ben in Oakland
July 23rd, 2008
El Rose– I think we can CERTAINLY argue that. ask any kid who has been abused, beaten, thrown out, or born addicted, or born to parents who didn’t want him, or weren’t prepared for him, or have their own emotional issues.
Some people believe that gay people do not procreate. Some have, and some do, when we are not busy adopting and raising the unwanted castoffs of irresponsible heterosexual procreation, many of whom are dying for a home, dying for the love of two parents (of whatever gender), or maybe just dying.
I have a friend who adopted a child with her partner– an unwanted child who would have been raised in poverty and disease, but has been given a chance at a different life with her. M. is now healthy, bright, charming, well behaved, and a joy to be around, instead of merely another piece of 3rd world refuse heading towards an early death because his heterosexual parents neither wanted him nor were prepared to care for him.
Some communities are in fact plagued by children born outside of marriage, born by child mothers to absent fathers, perpetuating cycles of poverty and family breakdown.
Davey Benkof said that lesbians make lousy fathers. My response– a number of FATHERS make lousy fathers.
So, NO, I don’t think we can agree on that
Richard Rush
July 23rd, 2008
Ben in Oakland: excellent comments (as always). Whenever I see your comments on a blog I read them carefully, whereas many others I may skim. You always seem able to get to the essence of an issue and express it clearly. Those blogs receiving your comments are very fortunate.
Of course, it helps that I virtually always agree with you.
Just wanted to tell you.
Ben in Oakland
July 23rd, 2008
Thank you, Richard. That’s very kind of you.
I think it is VERY important to cut through the bullshit and the unexamined assumptions of our opponents.
I just wish they had the intellectual and moral fibre to do the same.
Jason D
July 23rd, 2008
El Rose,
Sorry, but Ben has a point. Just because two people can successfully procreate does not mean they are also the best people suited for the job of raising the kids they produce. Examples include the Jackson Family, The Ramsey’s, Britney Spears. The list can go on for pages.
People often think that being able to give birth somehow magically transforms you into a responsible and mature adult. It does not. Rather than being a contraceptive, stupidity seems to be a combination of a fertility drug & an aphrodisiac.
Is it ideal for a child to be raised by the folks who gave their genetic material? Absolutely! But this is reality. In reality, we have foster homes. In reality we have adoption, because sometimes the birth parents are the LEAST qualified to raise their own kids. Sometimes parents die, abuse, neglect, or outright abandon their own kids.
Ben in Oakland
July 23rd, 2008
My two favorites are susan smith, the one who drowned her two children in her car and tried to blame it on an unknown black man, and Andrea yates, who murdered her five children by drowning them. those kids were certainly “better off”, weren’t they?
At least they didn’t try to pin those two on gay people
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