Box Turtle Bulletin
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobby“Now you must raise your children up in a world where that union of man and box turtle is on the same legal footing as man and wife…”
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobbyApril 29th, 2011
Linda Harvey
Mission America’s Linda Harvey thinks she has connected the dots:
Families constructed around sexual deviance stand in defiance of God’s eternally –revealed truth. No matter how “conservatively” and faithfully two men or two women operate as they consider themselves a marital union, the structure is still in defiance of God’s created order of male and female as the framework for marriage. Men and women already have the right to marry, because they are free to marry someone of the opposite sex, so the goal is a new structure.
…The mortgage crisis was the sin of temptation being offered by those who relaxed legitimate standards, offered to those without the personal standards to resist. This easy-pay physical structure was too good to be true, and appealed to an increasingly covetous segment of our culture. Sexual and material covetousness are usually sin siblings. It would be interesting to study the families who have defaulted on mortgages for the correlations between structural and/or functional weaknesses like infidelity, divorce, gambling or porn addictions, job instability, credit card default, domestic abuse, sexual deviance, and criminality. There is also a high likelihood that poor or no church attendance would show up as a factor as well.
But back to our main point, probably few such households are homosexually-headed, because few homosexuals want to settle down to any kind of permanence, despite the plea for the honor of the marital designation. Many unmarried mothers of children born out of wedlock are on public assistance, which means they are unlikely to have had a mortgage. So when we look at the mortgage crisis, we could analyze it as a shift in the American family, but these families would not begin to reflect where the greatest structural weaknesses already exist
Along her meandering way of connecting those dots, Harvey takes a side trip to indlulge her fascination with gay sex:
But let’s take two men, trying unsuccessfully to “consummate” their relationship. It is impossible. Forgive the graphics here, but neither oral nor anal sex, nor mutual masturbation will ever unify them structurally. In fact, actual anatomical damage can occur through anal sex. This ought to serve as a big clue from God, in case we weren’t paying attention.
Um, first of all, it’s not “impossible.” Our relationships are consummated whether she likes it or not, and consumation — even of a straight relationship — involves something far more significant than “structure.” And besides, it seems to me that if anatomical damage occurs, then the biggest clue from God is that someone’s doing it all wrong.
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TomTallis
April 29th, 2011
She sounds like she needs to be “unified structurally.”
mojwnun
April 29th, 2011
Harvey says: “It would be interesting to study the families who have defaulted on mortgages for the correlations between structural and/or functional weaknesses like infidelity, divorce, gambling or porn addictions, job instability, credit card default, domestic abuse, sexual deviance, and criminality.”
Actually, it appears “strategic defaulters” are “savvy consumers” with good previous credit histories, lower than average credit card utilization and retail balances: http://bit.ly/mBgTG9.
Guess Linda Harvey didn’t major in sociology…
Timothy Kincaid
April 29th, 2011
In addition to being a wackadoodle, she’s not a very good writer.
RWG
April 29th, 2011
She really is neck-deep in hate. Unfortunately for her, such hatred in one’s heart poisons the the life of the hater far more than it injures the object of hate. I pity her. She’s pathetic.
David Malcolm
April 29th, 2011
You know what the ironic part is? I remember in Bible College hearing my professor state that Religion was actually highly correlated to spousal abuse. Also don’t Evangelicals have higher divorce rates?
Edwin
April 29th, 2011
This woman sounds like she has a few screws loose. If anything most of the LGBT people are still paying on their loans. The holy rollers are the biggest problem with this country. They are the biggest bunch of Bullies out there.
Theo
April 29th, 2011
Harvey’s piece is too deranged and incoherent to warrant a rebuttal, except to note that she does not appear interested in a study of the personal lifestyles of the architects of the fraud at a systemic and institutional level – the investment bankers, the rating agency quants, and the mortgage brokers.
Her post does point out something very telling about the entire Religious Right that I noticed a few years ago. During the economic meltdown of 2008, I continually checked the major Christian Right websites to see what they might have to say about this global catastrophe.
Now, the meltdown was, to a significant extent, the product of massive, systemic fraud (and not just mortgage fraud) in which millions of Americans participated and the consequences of which impacted millions of American families, not to mention vast numbers of families worldwide. So you might think that the “pro-family” movement would have a lot to say.
They said nothing. Through the whole foul saga – from the artificial creation of the housing bubble to its unraveling through the vast transfer of wealth from taxpayers to investment bankers – there was the sound of crickets.
While they produced endless rants on Proposition 8, there was no evident concern for criminal fraud. And no support for reforms that would punish and prevent fraud in the future. I searched once on Concerned Women For America’s website for something – anything- to show concern for America as it’s economy spiraled down into the abyss. The only hit was a piece arguing that Lehman Brothers’ true sin was that it supported the gay agenda.
While these folks have always fixated on gays, it is now a full blown neurosis. Some have suggested that their focus on gay issues is a deliberate strategy to help fundraising. I doubt it. I think that after 35 years of warring on homosexuality, these people are incapable of focusing on anything else (with the exception of abortion). And even when they do, they inevitably drift back to the object of their obsession.
Richard Rush
April 29th, 2011
Theo, your comment is spot-on. That’s why the marriage of the money-wing of the Republican party and the Religious Right is a match made in heaven.
enough already
April 29th, 2011
Theo,
That’s an astute observation – they said nothing.
Look at the “achievements” of the Teapublicans over the last months, federally and on the state level.
Nothing, virtually nothing has been done about unemployment…which is what they ran on.
Of course, the Democrats are doing a brilliant job of letting this opportunity slide by unused, as usual….
Richard Rush
April 29th, 2011
Oh, Linda, I know you are one of America’s finest Christians, and therefore I also know that you believe a faithful God’s hand is involved in all things. And since you are so skilled at discerning cause and effect, let’s talk about tornadoes.
If there is one thing that God does faithfully, it is battering the so-called Bible Belt with tornadoes every single year – on schedule. Why is it that the area of the U.S. with the greatest concentration of God’s most fervent fans is singled out for some of the most viciously brutal destruction known on earth. I just read in the news that this year’s tornadoes have been the worst in four decades, which coincidentally takes us back roughly to the beginning of the modern gay rights movement. Linda, I’m sure you agree there must be a God-based reason why this annual destruction occurs, so let’s take a look at some possibilities:
1. God is punishing America’s finest Christians (AfCs) for doing such a poor job of stopping the advance of the homosexual agenda. And after four decades of failure, He decided extra punishment is warranted this year.
2. God loves His gay children, and is punishing AfCs for their relentless vicious persecution of gay people.
3. God is angry with the states that now permit gay marriage, and decided to punish the Bible Belt states for it. (Hey, it makes as much sense as the U.S. invading Iraq after 9/11.)
4. God doesn’t concern Himself with such trivialities as tornadoes, and He just doesn’t care enough about AfCs to protect them from suffering. And besides, He is tired of the tornado survivors thanking Him, when what they really mean is, “Thank you, God, for killing those other people instead of me.”
5. God doesn’t really like those who proclaim themselves as the only true Christians, who are certain they know the mind of God, who claim to be the sole authority on the Bible’s meaning, and who march forth in sanctimonious certainty that they are doing His will. And those people are disproportionately concentrated in the Bible Belt.
6. God doesn’t exist. Tornadoes are a result of naturally occurring forces that are now easily explained by science, unlike thousands of years ago when superstition was all people had to explain their world.
So, Linda, which reason for Bible Belt tornadoes seems most rational to you?
Shofixti
April 29th, 2011
I can’t look away either, or resist.
By her reasoning, rape by a phallus can never harm a veejay – as God has sanctioned it invulnerable. It is obvious to us all that heterosex can harm the anatomy, a man can even break his penis against the woman’s pubic bone.
Where’s my handy-dandy notebook, another clue from G-d!
Mihangel apYrs
April 30th, 2011
If I ever saw a face that begged to be slapped…..
andrew
April 30th, 2011
Hang on, folks, there is an form of coherent logic here, although she takes tremendous freedoms.
Her assertion is basically that the relaxation of standards leads to failure. It’s just that her analogy fails. She’s not crazy, she’s just lazy, not very bright, and extremely manipulative. Oh, and tack on self-satisfied and curiously fixated on the gays.
Certainly failure due to relaxation of standards is demonstrable in the housing crisis: the issuance of mortgages with no money down, no proof of income, and no evidence that the buyer would ever be able to pay it back directly led to those same mortgages going bad.
But there the analogy to relationships / marriages fails.
Marriages are not mortgages.
Mortgages are someone else’s property leveraged until the buyer can pay it back. They are not a right, and they should not be — one has to qualify for a mortgage (while any two (straight) fools can marry). Morgages are not intrinsic to human nature. One can rent and still have the protection of a roof over one’s head. And they are not always reflective of values — if someone loses their job through circumstances outside their control, for example, one might have to default. The contract in a mortgage is between the folks in the house and an external entity
Marriages, on the other hand – or even just relationships – are not on loan from anyone. I don’t need to come to Ms. Harvey for approval to choose a partner (no matter what she thinks). The contract there is between the people under that roof. All we are demanding is that our relationships are given the same recognition that anyone else’s is.
In other words, my “house” (relationship) isn’t backed by a “loan” (societal permission) — it’s entirely self-funded (determined by me and my partner). But you had damned well better “deliver the mail to my door” the same as you would anyone else’s (give my relationship the same official treatment that my neighbors enjoy). I’ll “pay my property taxes” (assume the responsibilities in society taken on by a couple in a committed relationship), but I expect police, fire, mail, etc. (the rights and benefits accrued by society to other relationships).
As for standards… while this society continues to celebrate marriages arranged on network television, have an entire state with an economy based in part on the ease of entering into a marriage (and getting out of one), and streamline the processes for getting out of a marriage — all of these for hetero unions, I’m rather unclear on WTF anyone is babbling about vis a vis gay marriages.
Harvey: clean your own house first. In the meantime, I want my damn rights.
dave
April 30th, 2011
Religion is a form of mental illness and she’s got it bad.
BlackDog
April 30th, 2011
Yeah Theo, it’s funny. I’ve always thought it didn’t make any sense that the Religious Right is obsessed with trying to control people’s sex lives, but willing to let massive financial shenanigans slide.
The Bible has a lot more page space devoted to being careful and honest with your money, let alone other people’s (and of course “Thou shalt not steal”) than to anything it may say about homosexuality.
So they think teh gay is so wrong, but it should be perfectly fine for a man in a suit who works at a bank to steal the money of millions of people? This makes no sense! If I take my gun and go rob someone in the street, I go to prison. It should be the same for the man in the suit who robs millions with a computer or a pen…the Bible is clear on that, thou shalt not steal.
Also, Jesus said you cannot serve both God and money…so please, religious right people…pick one or the other.
If they want to follow one verse to a tee (and force everyone else to as well!) they should expect to be called out for not having the same degree of consistency on preaching that about ALL of them, but it’s funny how if you try then the excuses start right out the gate.
They’re a bunch of scam artists, and articles like this one make it pretty obvious.
Regan DuCasse
April 30th, 2011
Hmmm…
The most visible, outspoken and savvy Christians, have not gone on the attack or tried to change laws to do with USURY.
But instead, continue to go after gay people and will tie them to every pathology, social failure and systemic disgrace known to this country.
As if gay citizens aren’t ALSO suffering along with the rest of society because of such pernicious pathology.
Anything in which heterosexuals are the controlling majority, and where there are NO exclusive behaviors, are not included in the complaints or calls for restraint.
The SINGLE exclusive feature that gay people have is the cause celebre and to be treated as if it’s THE MOST PRIMARY destructive factor among mankind.
That IS deranged, stupid and does nothing to improve on society and it’s woes.
Three young women were murdered in the LA environs in five days. The youngest was a 17 year old girl who was dumped in a plastic container.
Indeed, all the gang shootings, violence against females and cases of child neglect so far in the news can be attributed to anyone gay. Singularly or collectively.
I’m exposed to these intensive social problems more closely than your average citizen. The more I am, the more people like AFTAH, FRC, AFA, TVC, NOM and so on, CLEARLY have the dumbest, meanest, most insane and spiteful agenda considering everything else going on.
If this shit weren’t so deadly serious, I wish I could laugh at these people.
But they are more effective than we think in some quarters. Rabid dogs might be irrational and frothing at the mouth, but they are still dangerous and one can never turn their back on them.
Regan DuCasse
April 30th, 2011
Oops, TYPO. I mean ALL these crimes CANNOT be attributed to anyone gay. Yikes, not enough coffee yet.
Priya Lynn
April 30th, 2011
Mmmmm, coffee…
Ben in Atlanta
April 30th, 2011
I respectfully decline the position of scapegoat. I also know that deviant is not a dirty word. It only adds to the inifinte variety of Divine expression.
enough already
April 30th, 2011
When you consider that it is legal to discriminate against gays in lending, selling, purchasing, renting, leasing and advertising homes in the US, this is even more offensive than the usual hatred.
Rob in San Diego
April 30th, 2011
I guess that she doesn’t realize that gays buy all of their dilapidated and ran down houses that heterosexuals have ruined over the years and renovated them and increased the property values on all their other run down neighborhoods. In fact, it seemed like all the mortgage issues happened in on the heterosexual side of town here in San Diego.
homer
April 30th, 2011
She also doesn’t mention the “prosperity gospel” phenomenon and how numerous churches convinced people that they should buy houses despite poor finances.
Theo
April 30th, 2011
@Richard Rush:
I’m impressed. That’s a lot of thought, certainly more than Harvey merits.
I would note that Harvey emphasizes the failure of standards on the part of the borrower. But unless he is a flipper or is playing the role of a dummy buyer in a classic mortgage fraud scheme, then the borrower has no incentive to buy a house that he knows he can’t afford. The borrowers thought they could afford it because they bought into the lie that housing prices always go up. That’s stupidity and gullibility, but it isn’t really a change in standards.
By contrast, the incentives to abandon standards lay with the broker and the bank, both of whom would reap larger fees by sticking as many marks, I mean suckers, um, I mean borrowers with exotic ARMs.
At the end of the day, it was Angelo Mozilo who walked away with $300 million while the borrowers got foreclosure notices and ruined credit and you and I got the privilege of purchasing these toxic loans in order to spare bankers from a prolonged period of impaired bonuses. Makes you wonder why Linda Harvey isn’t demanding a survey of the sex lives and drug histories of the execs at Countrywide and Ameriquest.
Paul J. Stein
May 1st, 2011
Back in the early 90’s my former spouse and I applied for a housing loan. The property was a foreclosure craftsman in a great area across from schools and shopping nearby. The loan broker wanted me to season (hold in savings) the money (borrowed down payment). I was on disability, limited income, assistance for medical. I was assured it “would be ok”. i did not do it because it was FRAUD, I could loose my down payment, and any equity I had in the home. This was through Countrywide. I called the State of OHIO and complained, The feds, local agencies, NO ONE DID ANYTHING! The loan broker was later fired from his county (LUCAS) job as auditor for misuse of funds! This goes way back further than the last 20 years.
Jaime
May 3rd, 2011
Actual anatomical damage can be done through pregnancy and childbirth. Does this mean that God did not intend for women to have children?
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