Box Turtle Bulletin
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobby“Now you must raise your children up in a world where that union of man and box turtle is on the same legal footing as man and wife…”
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobbyMay 29th, 2012
From the NOM Blog:
Dan — I accept and will look forward to debating you at your dining room table. As I said in my challenge to you, anytime, any place.
While I appreciate the invitation that you have extended to my wife, she will not be able to attend. She is a full-time mom with seven beautiful children and an eighth on the way.
Dan Savage invited National Organization for Marriage’s Brian Brown to a debate at Dan Savage’s dining table, with the New York Times’s Mark Oppenheimer serving as moderator. The original invitation included having Brown’s wife and Dan’s husband also at the table. A date and time will be announced later, giving Savage time to redecorate his living room and dining room for the occasion.
Latest Posts
Featured Reports
In this original BTB Investigation, we unveil the tragic story of Kirk Murphy, a four-year-old boy who was treated for “cross-gender disturbance” in 1970 by a young grad student by the name of George Rekers. This story is a stark reminder that there are severe and damaging consequences when therapists try to ensure that boys will be boys.
When we first reported on three American anti-gay activists traveling to Kampala for a three-day conference, we had no idea that it would be the first report of a long string of events leading to a proposal to institute the death penalty for LGBT people. But that is exactly what happened. In this report, we review our collection of more than 500 posts to tell the story of one nation’s embrace of hatred toward gay people. This report will be updated continuously as events continue to unfold. Check here for the latest updates.
In 2005, the Southern Poverty Law Center wrote that “[Paul] Cameron’s ‘science’ echoes Nazi Germany.” What the SPLC didn”t know was Cameron doesn’t just “echo” Nazi Germany. He quoted extensively from one of the Final Solution’s architects. This puts his fascination with quarantines, mandatory tattoos, and extermination being a “plausible idea” in a whole new and deeply disturbing light.
On February 10, I attended an all-day “Love Won Out” ex-gay conference in Phoenix, put on by Focus on the Family and Exodus International. In this series of reports, I talk about what I learned there: the people who go to these conferences, the things that they hear, and what this all means for them, their families and for the rest of us.
Prologue: Why I Went To “Love Won Out”
Part 1: What’s Love Got To Do With It?
Part 2: Parents Struggle With “No Exceptions”
Part 3: A Whole New Dialect
Part 4: It Depends On How The Meaning of the Word "Change" Changes
Part 5: A Candid Explanation For "Change"
At last, the truth can now be told.
Using the same research methods employed by most anti-gay political pressure groups, we examine the statistics and the case studies that dispel many of the myths about heterosexuality. Download your copy today!
And don‘t miss our companion report, How To Write An Anti-Gay Tract In Fifteen Easy Steps.
Anti-gay activists often charge that gay men and women pose a threat to children. In this report, we explore the supposed connection between homosexuality and child sexual abuse, the conclusions reached by the most knowledgeable professionals in the field, and how anti-gay activists continue to ignore their findings. This has tremendous consequences, not just for gay men and women, but more importantly for the safety of all our children.
Anti-gay activists often cite the “Dutch Study” to claim that gay unions last only about 1½ years and that the these men have an average of eight additional partners per year outside of their steady relationship. In this report, we will take you step by step into the study to see whether the claims are true.
Tony Perkins’ Family Research Council submitted an Amicus Brief to the Maryland Court of Appeals as that court prepared to consider the issue of gay marriage. We examine just one small section of that brief to reveal the junk science and fraudulent claims of the Family “Research” Council.
The FBI’s annual Hate Crime Statistics aren’t as complete as they ought to be, and their report for 2004 was no exception. In fact, their most recent report has quite a few glaring holes. Holes big enough for Daniel Fetty to fall through.
“Google” is a trademark of Google Inc.
© Box Turtle Bulletin. All Rights Reserved.
Posts 
Posts via daily email:
Mark F.
May 29th, 2012
Well, I’m glad to see this may actually happen.
Timothy Kincaid
May 29th, 2012
While I appreciate the invitation that you have extended to my wife, she will not be able to attend. She is a full-time mom with seven beautiful children and an eighth on the way.
In other words, “this is NOT a family dinner. My wife will not be there and I refuse to pretend that you and your sex partner are a real relationship.”
JesterKatz
May 29th, 2012
@Timothy Kincaid
It does feel like Brown’s giving a middle finger to Savage. To me, it’s like he’s saying, “I have a WIFE with BIOLOGICAL CHILDREN; We can do something special called, PROCREATION.”
Ryan
May 29th, 2012
Jeez, I have no love for Brown, but I think he just meant his wife is busy. And pregnant, and probably doesn’t want to schlep to Seattle . I think when they’re in a room together, they’ll both be forced to be civil, which should be very interesting. I didn’t think Brown would be man enough to accept, so good on him. I of course expect Savage to crush him, though.
Richard Rush
May 29th, 2012
The obsession with gender in qualifying human relationships became tiresome a long time ago. The overwhelming relevant aspects of relationships revolve around two people being human. Whether or not they are same-sex or opposite-sex couples is a relatively minor distinction in the overall – unless you suffer from Gender Obsession Disorder. And I think it’s a safe bet that Brian Brown suffers from G.O.D., and thus he won’t be experiencing an epiphany at Dan and his husband’s home.
Bose in St Peter MN
May 29th, 2012
“…a full-time mom with seven beautiful children and an eighth on the way…” is apparently an entirely different person from anyone who has been inspired to become a foster parent, an adoptive parent, a traditional parent of a child with special needs.
Shofixti
May 30th, 2012
What’s the point?
There is no way that they match on epistemological and ontological dimensions so how will a debate help anyone other than merely rehearsing those same patterns of distinction.
Ryan
May 30th, 2012
Comments on the NOM-blog are eye-popping in their utter lack of class. “Jokes” abound about Brian catching an STD at Dan’s house, and one poor soul thinks they’ll be debating Dan’s “proclivities” rather than gay marriage. Hard to believe that in 2012 people would be so arrogant to think that homosexuality itself should be up for debate. I think my hopes for a civil conversation are unlikely.
chiMaxx
May 30th, 2012
As I said elsewhere, marriage equality foes like to keep things at a certain level of abstraction. Not bringing his wife, and thus keeping both spouses off camera, makes it easier for him to talk about marriage in the abstract and to try to avoid having to acknowledge the effects that the policies and abstractiona about marriage and family he throws around would have a material effect on Dan, his husband and their son.
james
May 30th, 2012
Well, with seven kids and an eighth on the way, we cannot accuse Mr. Brown of being a hypocrite. He really does believe marriage is about the children. Apparently about the sex, too.
While I wish the entire family well, if this was a lower-income, working class, nonwhite traditional one man/one woman family, Republicans would be all over them for not being able to control themselves.
Timothy (TRiG)
May 30th, 2012
This I did not expect. Could be interesting. (Could also be painful.)
TRiG.
homer
May 30th, 2012
Brian Brown will make sure everyone knows that his wife had to stay at home because he didn’t want to expose her to Dan Savage and Dan’s husband. The NOM followers will eat this up.
Matt
May 30th, 2012
On the menu, Crow and Humble Pie.
Jarred
May 30th, 2012
Not bringing his wife, and thus keeping both spouses off camera…
Wait, are both spouses going to be kept off camera. Personally, I hope that Dan’s husband is right there by Dan’s side. After all, the fact that Brian’s spouse chose to decline the invitation does not mean that Dan’s husband has to follow suit.
Personally, I think it would make quite the statement to show Dan’s husband standing there supporting Dan while Brian finds himself having to stand alone.
chiMaxx
May 30th, 2012
Jarred: I think that is how Brown is trying to maneuver it–to make the video about the issues and principles not the people, arguing that two against one would be unfair ganging up on him. I hope Dan doesn’t fall for it.
Reed
May 30th, 2012
Pregnant for the eighth time. Ah, yes. “The breeder defense.”
james
May 30th, 2012
another poster already stated it but the truth is if brian brown were a black man with all those kids or a hispanic man with all those kids let me tell you the repubs would be all about his “food stamps” and “welfare” and having more kids so the government can pay for them. but he is white so its ok.
Nathaniel
May 31st, 2012
I have to wonder if Brown isn’t a little misogynistic; i.e. he thinks a woman’s place is barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. If he succeeds in banning marriage equality forever (which won’t happen, but that is his goal), would he then go after the freedoms of women?
As to being a hypocrite, the whole thing to me smacks of someone who protests too much. “See, I have 8 kids. That proves I am straight.” There are so many layers to that comment, we could probably spend a life-time unravelling everything Brown tried to say (intentionally or otherwise) with it. I hope Savage rebuts with an invitation for the children to tag along, and an offer of a sitter during the debate.
Donny D.
May 31st, 2012
Timothy Kincaid wrote,
Timothy, I think that’s the essence what Brian Brown is communicating there.
There also seems to be an element of heterosexual gloating in there as well. As well as an attempt at a hoaky excuse, since I’m sure “Mrs. Brown” can get enough help with the kids to get away for an evening here and there. Brian Brown also manages to make his wife sound badly overworked to everyone who isn’t grossly sexist.
Also he might be acting like he’s being gallant and protecting poor little wifey-pooh from facing the evil, vicious homos in their own den.
Leave A Comment