Utah update

Timothy Kincaid

December 23rd, 2013

As you know, Judge Shelby refused to issue a stay to his ruling. And while he didn’t exactly call the state officials idiots, he did politely point out that is was their own fault that no stay was considered on Friday. (QSaltLake)

[State’s attorney] Lott gave the example of then-District Judge Vaughn Richard Walker deciding to stay his ruling at the same time he ruled against California’s Proposition 8.

Shelby explained the difference between what happened in that court and why it didn’t happen in this court.

“There was no motion for a stay pending when I made my ruling,” he said. “When Judge Walker ruled, the plaintiffs had filed a motion to stay the ruling in case it didn’t come down their way.”

There was no such motion filed by the State of Utah before Shelby made his ruling.

“I had no authority to rule on a temporary stay,” he explained.

By the time that the state came in to ask for a stay, they were no longer protecting the status quo. Now the rules of the game had shifted and marriage was the status quo.

So the state has now requested that the Tenth Circuit issue a stay, and the courts gave the plaintiffs (our side) until 5:00 to file a brief as to why no stay should be granted. Unlike the DA’s office, it is highly likely that the arguments were prepared long ago and only needed to me amended to take on the ‘status quo’ arguments.

Meanwhile, today is the day that Governor Herbert decided to appoint a new State Attorney General. The previous Attorney General resigned in November in a corruption scandal and the marriage filings were conducted by acting Attorney General Brian Tarbut.

Interesting side note, acting Attorney General Brian Tarbut had been the commander of the Utah State National Guard having worked his way up the rank. Also in the Utah State National Guard for eight years, leaving about the time that Tarbut assumed control, was Robert Shelby, the judge in this case.

It is impossible to predict whether the Tenth Circuit will now grant the state a stay. Nor do we know when it is that they will decide.

However, we do know that they will be considering “the factors that must be established to be entitled to a stay pending appeal.” In other words “this is controversial and we don’t like it” will not be sufficient for these judges. It is expected that they will need to be convinced that the state has a good chance of winning and that if no stay is granted that the state will be harmed.

But irrespective of the stay or whether the ruling is reversed, It is estimated that around 800 couples have married on Friday and today.

And those who refused to issue licenses may find that obstinance is not always a winning trait. After being denied a license by a lesbian couple, the County Clerk of Utah County has been sued. Should a stay be granted and this couple were unable to get a license elsewhere, he may find himself with a rather serious civil rights lawsuit on his hands; there is no confusion whatsoever about whether an un-stayed ruling by a federal judge should be followed.


December 23rd, 2013


Lindoro Almaviva

December 23rd, 2013

why do I have a feeling that the Utah Governor and the AG actually didn’t prepare a stay motion because they thought it would not be necessary? Why am I ready to bet that they just thought their arguments were enough and there was no way that a republican judge, husband of an LDS (or former, no word yet) member would even consider ruling against them. Never mind the fact that the same arguments have been unsuccessful in other courts, why do I have a feeling they thought they had this one on the bag either because of the political affiliation of the judge or possible ties to the LDS?

David C.

December 24th, 2013

@Lindoro Almaviva: I highly recommend that you read the Shelby ruling.

As an aside though, just to get a feel for how disorganized the Utah AG office is of late, I definitely recommend that you read the Judge Clark Waddoups ruling in Brown et al v. Buhman striking down an anti-cohabitation provision in Utah’s bigamy statute. I believe you will actually find this last bit of legal writing interesting and perhaps even entertaining.


December 24th, 2013

Good point and I think they played “pride cometh before the fall” in perfect harmony. For Utah, this couldn’t be a more perfect storm within which to perfect that act.
Given the lack of basis for a stay, I can’t see that cementing itself into this picture. However, their religious pride is so corrupt, I personally wouldn’t mind buying popcorn to watch SCOTUS deliver the nuclear blow to the most hypnotically induced religious state in the land.
I give Utah a standing ovation for their “parting of the sea” epic performance. As this continues to go the way of constitutional law following other states, they will be fishing their chariots and their warriors out of the bitingly chilly waters for years to come.
Lesson to be learned:
Never underestimate the talons of right mindedness in action.

Ben In Oakland

December 24th, 2013

“As an aside though, just to get a feel for how disorganized the Utah AG office is of late.”

Unlike the tornados that hit Illinois in tornado season, even though they hit Indiana, the Mississippi of the north–in order to express god’s displeasure with marriage equality–where was I? Oh, yes.

I believe the proper biblical precedent is the tower of babel. God’s will, you know. They weren’t prepared at this crucial juncture.


December 24th, 2013

Ok. Today’s civics lesson: Checks and Balances

When a one-party political group has such control as in Utah, there is bound to be corruption. The currents of power was bound to produce absolute corruption. That’s why we need a healthy two-party system.

It’s quite entertaining to read about the Utah Attorney General office and the mess they are in now. The high price (more than 3 million dollars) to have fancy New York lawyers look into the corruption should be a wake-up call. And it might not be just two politicians involved in this power and influence. It might involve some other higher-ups… just be aware of the costs to to everyone when a political party has too much control.

There should be checks and balances in our Republic.

And then we need to note why we as a Republic need a judicial system. Because sometimes a theocracy trying to cloak itself as democratic political system is bound to run up against a Constitutional check.

No letter read from a pulpit or through a private network of satellite hook-ups from a Church headquarters should trump civil law. Playing with voters to seemingly use democratic methods to get your dogma into civil law has to be mitigated with a thorough check with that important document: the US Constitution.

No matter how many people vote for something it does not mean it will pass the Judicial and the Executive checks and balances. (And don’t try to usurp the power of the Judicial system…it might just come back and bite you.)

Checks and balances. It’s part of the system. Or should be.


December 24th, 2013

‘And Prince Savage, Champion for the Rainbow Slaves and voice for the good God Enki, commanded the Pharoah of Utah, “let my people go.” And Enki upon seeing Pharoah’s spite and stubbornness, sent multiple plagues sixteen plus one upon the lands, wiping out corrupt law. The Pharoah of Utah showed arrogance and sloth still refusing to set the rainbow slaves free. Until one day Enki took from Pharoah his most cherished evil weapon; a box of sparkling gems the Pharoah valued beyond all else. The brilliant gems were called Discriminations, and could conflict entire nations upon igniting a single gem, created and given to him by the malicious evil God Yahweh, the Holy God of Condemnation.

The Pharoah of Utah unbridled by his losses, cracked at his knees folding under beneath the weight of his own sorrow, setting free the Rainbow Slaves he had held captive for so long.

The Pharoah of Utah still filled with rage, was able to crawl onto his horse, and the Pharoah and his warriors chased after the Rainbow Slaves towards the Red Sea destined to kill Savage and the Rainbow Warriors and any cost. Now strength had come upon the Rainbow Sla ….’

Ben in Oakland

December 24th, 2013

Actually, cowboy, what we need is a healthy MULTI party system. 50 years ago, when I was 13, I wrote a 40 page paper for my social studies class that got me a commendation from my principal. ( the average paper was about 10 pages in length). In it, I detailed the problems of a two party system when either both parties are the same or both parties are radically different. Using the examples of soviet Russia and nazi germany, I showed how when radically different parties become even more radically different, they end up looking the same.

The two party system worked for this country for quite a while, but started devolving inthe seventies, leading us to where we are now: one centrist party describing itself as liberal, one far right party describing itself as moderate.

Both are liars.

Ben in Oakland

December 24th, 2013

Idavid, you’re mean and snarky. I like that!


December 24th, 2013

As they said back then, ‘if the sandle fits.’ Merry Christmas to you Ben, and everyone else who graces these pages.

Thanks and Merry Christmas Tim and Jim. It was truly an excellent year of reporting here at the Box and I greatly appreciate it.

And Judge Shelby, thanks for a timely planned Christmas gift. Merry Christmas.


December 24th, 2013

iDavid: You’re just too good. Really.

Ben (the one in Oakland): I concur. More diversity in the political circus would be healthier for our country. Even though I think we might have two Republican parties.

I also agree, if it were Democrats here in Utah that had complete control over the politics there would be abuses and corruption in the power base. There would be liquor stores all over the place! Or (gasp!) hard liquor sold in the private sector in something called grocery stores.

It’s truly a Happy Holiday for some of my friends this year. There is definitely a sense of empowerment that comes with equality. I heard it was nearly a third of all the same-sex couples in Utah have gone to get their marriage licenses! And, for me, I feel there is no turning back now. And that makes me walk a little taller and a little prouder.

It was difficult, at first, when I came “out”. One thing I was uncomfortable with was all the hugging I was given with all my new gay friends. It was foreign to me. You have to understand how my family was very stoic and standoffish.

But, now I feel I could hug you all.

Happy Holidays.


December 24th, 2013

remember also that beyond the 800+ couples who’ve married since Friday, there are also some number of couples with out-of-state marriage that Friday’s ruling validated. that could easily double the number of legally married same-sex couples in UT right now.


December 24th, 2013

Is it just me or does that picture of Judge Shelby ring anyone else’s gaydar?


December 24th, 2013

And Happy Holidays, to all from the far left coast!

Ben In Oakland

December 24th, 2013

He pinged mine big time, but he’s hetero married, as I understand. I think it’s just unusual for straight men in their 50’s to be so fit and attractive and well groomed.

Lindoro Almaviva

December 24th, 2013

Ben in Oakland, you got that wrong. He is 43 (that hottie is my age). He did set my gaydar off, and i was seconds away from tweeting my own marriage proposal (much to the consternation of my boyfriend, but then I told him we could convert to orthodox Mormonism and be all happy)

Ben In Oakland

December 24th, 2013

Damn, that makes him too young and too straight for me.

Oh, well. my husband probably would not have approved anyway.


December 24th, 2013

Yes gaydar ping! If it’s one thing I’ve learned through this sex education course we’ve all partaken in over recent years, it’s that a straight marriage certificate doesn’t particularly mean some married men don’t partake in the sporty art of sensual pole vaulting.
With Utah being the highest consumer of pornography in the nation …


… I’m pretty sure some Mormon dads have some very enthusiastic Mmormon4Mmormon bedtime stories.

My question is; why do the uber religious seem to have the highest extra curricular sex drives? Hmmm, quelling sexual guilt perhaps? Or might they be partly filling in the cosmic sexual gap created by celibate gays, who out of sexual guilt and confusion, erroneously call themselves “ex-gay” for anesthetic purposes? Who knows.

Regardless, Judge Shelby rates a 10 on my little black book page titled DILF.


December 24th, 2013

It’s a done deal; “Stay Denied” for the State of Utah by the 10 Circuit Court with gay marriages continuing indefinitely.
Utah’s next venture for a Stay may be SCOTUS, that is; if their heads are so thick they still don’t see the writing on the wall.
Congrats UTAH. Welcome to America!
What an amazing Christmas Eve!!!
Blessings to all!


December 24th, 2013

@iDavid re. Mormon dads:

Next time you pass a rest stop known for cruising, notice how many of the empty cars parked there have baby seats in the back. Seriously.

Ben in Oakland

December 25th, 2013

IDavid, one thing I have learned in my life seems to be true always:

Man is a doing animal. we do, we create, we think. We create our lives with every single thing we do, we think, we create, with every truth or every lie we tell ourselves. and most important of all, where we put our attention is what we create in our lives.

This is one of the reasons why I am more and more convinced that the more someone obsesses about homosexuality in others, the more likely it is that that someone is gay– or more accurately, is a homo-hating-homo.

Quite aside from Questions of lust, I truly hope Judge Shelby is as heterosexual as they come. His decision indicates that he understands exactly what homohatred and homobigotry are, where they comes from, and why they have no more place in society than do racism, misogyny, or any other form of bigotry.


December 25th, 2013

iDavid, Brilliant.

Regarding divine retribution, I cannot help but think this is God’s punishment on Utah/LDS for the LDS’ hubris in opposing ME in California, Washington STate, Nevada.


December 26th, 2013


So cool about hugging. I too came from a similar family background and now today we are all hugging. I think they saw it on TV and gave in. It’s also great you are feeling taller and stronger. Is it getting better and better each day in Utah with the happenings this week?


I surely see how that is possible, and then there are so many infected layers to our “BioAndroid” hard drives, and fear of change is one of them.


I do see your point. Please let me preface. I see the only correct definition used in the Bible describing the true authentic God of Greation is, “God is a peace that surpasseth all understanding”. Other then that, the term “God” is used rather loosely incorrectly and irreverently and does not honor the true meaning of creation at all. In fact, it perverts it into an evil being promoting evil doings creating confusion and conflict within the minds of mankind i.e. via slavery enslaving women gays blacks SEX tossing Adam and Eve out of the Garden and the list goes on; this is not God at all, but a fabricated tool for destruction and control of the human psyche, which has played itself out only too well over the centuries.

Though I could say ‘yay yay rah rah! god really stuck it to LDS, Utah!’, well then I would just be buying into more Biblical Error, of which there is much. The good of our hearts and our country is simply trumping out the bad infectious hatred densified there. If we give the label “god” to good and evil deeds, which the Bible does to our confusion, then we give way too much power to that false idol, and people tend to stay controlled and scared.

I think the LDS imploded under it’s own weight of hatred disgust guilt and fear and has not accessed The Authentic God of Creation Tools (reason via peace) to resolve it. And they still haven’t. They just keep knashing their teeth, saying in a sense, ‘come on gay guys, stick it in, fuck us some more’.

But now, if you want to go at it for fun’s sake for everything the LDS Church has done to ruin lives of their gay brothers and sisters here and throughout the world; then Yeah, God double fucked LDS in the ass baby.

And he didn’t use lube.


December 26th, 2013

PS Theee best straight supporter of gay marriage in Utah video …


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