NYTimes takes on Utah’s no-gay-marriage arguments

Timothy Kincaid

January 13th, 2014

The New York Times takes on the arguments (three, so far) presented by the state of Utah as to why their ban on same-sex couples marrying is a legitimate state interest. It’s quite funny. Here’s their take on the second argument:

In the Supreme Court, state officials changed tack. They pressed a different argument, one built on a contested premise.

“A substantial body of social science research confirms,” the brief said, “that children generally fare best when reared by their two biological parents in a loving, low-conflict marriage.”

Lawyers for the couples challenging Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage responded that the assertion “is not true.” For evidence, they cited “the scientific consensus of every national health care organization charged with the welfare of children and adolescents,” and listed nine such groups. The view of the groups, the challengers said, “based on a significant and well-respected body of current research, is that children and adolescents raised by same-sex parents, with all things being equal, are as well-adjusted as children raised by opposite-sex couples.”

Utah responded that it would not be swayed by “politically correct trade associations,” referring to, among others, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Medical Association and the American Psychiatric Association. “We are not ruled by experts,” the state’s brief said.

Ben in Oakland

January 13th, 2014

We’re not ruled by experts, unless the experts agree with us.

Disagreement isn’t hate, except when you disagree with us.

Politically correct statements are irrelevant. Only political statements that are incorrect are relevant.

a Substantial body of evidence is that which substantiates our statements, even though 90% of everyone else thinks our substantial body of evidence is neither substantial nor evidence.


January 13th, 2014

An Idaho legislator once said: “There’s science, and then there’s common sense.”

I wasn’t there, but I assume that heads nodded and murmurs of agreement rose as he spoke.


January 13th, 2014

“Wise men and sages of the earth state. ..”

That was an example presented by my 9th grade research writing teacher of how NOT to back up facts in one’s research papers. Doing so would have resulted in an automatic F.

I don’t think the attorneys arguing for Utah’s same-sex marriage ban would fair well in my 9th grade research writing class, based on how they substantial their arguments.

Richard Rush

January 13th, 2014

I put back the part of the following quote that surely must have been omitted:

“We are not ruled by experts, [we are ruled by the Mormon church,] the state’s brief said.”


January 13th, 2014

Please read this editorial by three respected lawyers in yesterday’s Sunday Tribune:


All couples who were married before the stay — whether same-sex or not — remain legally married after the stay. Yet the state of Utah is now refusing to honor the marital vows of only same-sex couples.


The state of Utah has chosen to deprive same-sex couples of their marital rights even though the governor’s office has acknowledged that the advent of marriage equality was having minimal or no impact on most state agencies. In contrast, the state has readily acknowledged that the withdrawal of marriage rights is harmful to gay couples.


The state’s actions demonstrate that Amendment 3 has always been about demeaning the lives and denying legal status to the families of LGBT citizens. The principal purpose of Amendment 3 has always been to impose legal inequality on gay citizens. Today Amendment 3 is literally being used to ignore marriages, not protect them.


January 13th, 2014

We are not ruled by experts. We are ruled by inept amateurs who can’t make a consistent or coherent argument. Once we get our panel of inept amateur idiots to weigh in, you really won’t be able to follow what we present as “thinking.”


January 13th, 2014

You’ve got to read the whole Times article, though, because the third argument is truly a thing of beauty – making the second argument seem nearly rational. You see, by restricting marriage to opposite-sex couples, the state is increasing “gender diversity” in marriage, just like universities are allowed to make affirmative action decisions to increase student diversity. Seriously.


January 14th, 2014

Well, it occurs to me that the state of Utah had put out a want ad for help on mounting their “defense of marriage.” Do you suppose the staff of The Onion got the job?

Priya Lynn

January 14th, 2014

CPT_Doom, that’s hilarious, it shows just how pathetically devoid of justification for their position they really are. I’m going to go read the whole article now.

Ben in Oakland

January 14th, 2014

Genderless marriage is one of the memes the Brownshirt keeps repeating. I’m sure the AG in Utah went directly to him to ask for advice about what to say.

I’m sure they rationalize all of this by telling themselves over and over, “we’ll, WE believe it.”


January 14th, 2014

CPT_Doom: Yep. Next step: Only interracial marriages are allowed. You know, it’s just like affirmative action.

The Lauderdale

January 14th, 2014

“Well, it occurs to me that the state of Utah had put out a want ad for help on mounting their “defense of marriage.” Do you suppose the staff of The Onion got the job?”

I’d half buy that. I read the same part Timothy quoted to my mom yesterday, and she laughed.

“A substantial body of social science research confirms… We are not ruled by experts.” That I can believe.

Jordan Lamb

January 15th, 2014

I’m gay, what’s your problem?!?!

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