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News and commentary about the anti-gay lobby“Now you must raise your children up in a world where that union of man and box turtle is on the same legal footing as man and wife…”
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobbyOctober 18th, 2014
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¡Hagan lío! Synod Bishops revolt against leadership and get their way http://t.co/Ogkfjv4IBo #HUGE #catholic #tcot
— Fr. John Zuhlsdorf (@fatherz) October 16, 2014
(Note: Because this is a breaking story, this post has been updated numerous times between 12:40 p.m. and 1:20 p.m. PDT.)
The hardliners have won. The Extraordinary Synod of Bishops on the Family, which has wrapped up its first session in Rome this weekend, has just approved its final Relatio Synodi in the original, official Italian. An official English translation is not yet available, but Buzzfeed provides this in-house translation:
The pastoral care of people with homosexual orientation
55. Some families live the experience of having members who are of homosexual orientation. In this regard, questions have been raised on pastoral care which is appropriate to deal with this situation by referring to what the Church teaches: “There is no basis whatsoever to assimilate or to draw even remote analogies between same-sex unions and the plan of God for marriage and the family. ” Nevertheless, men and women with homosexual tendencies must be accepted with respect and sensitivity. “In their regard should be avoided every sign of unjust discrimination” (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Considerations Regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions Between Homosexual Persons, 4).
56. It is totally unacceptable that the Pastors of the Church suffer the pressures in this matter and that international bodies condition financial aid to poor countries, on the institution of laws that establish the “marriage” between persons of the same sex.
This represents a complete and utter victory for the Church’s more hardliner wing, particularly the American, African, and Oceanian bishops who angrily denounced the interim Relatio for asking whether the church was capable of providing a “welcoming… fraternal space” for gay people who possess “gifts and qualities to offer to the Christian community.” That statement also acknowledged “cases in which mutual aid to the point of sacrifice constitutes a precious support in the life of the partners,” while also recognizing the needs of the children of gay couples.
The new statement has none of that. It recognizes nothing about gay people or their children. In fact, it doesn’t recognize gays and lesbians at all, but rather restricts itself to addressing families who “live the experience of having members who are of homosexual orientation.” Which means it’s not even meant to address us. This is not just a full reversal from Monday’s statement, it’s not even as minimally positive as the mysteriously revised English mistranslation that was issued Thursday. This is more than just a backtrack. It’s a doubling down on the part of John Paul II’s and Benedict XVI’s appointed English-speaking bishops, and stunning rebuke of Pope Francis’s attempts to inject a small dose of humanity into the operation of the Church.
Despite the full-on capitulation to conservative clerics, the conservative EWTN-affiliated National Catholic Register still says, “Critics, however, have said the message, published on the eve of the final day of the two-week ecclesial gathering, sends out ‘weak and ambiguous’ signals on the Church’s positions on sexual morality”:
Yet this approach has not been accepted by everyone. Speaking to the Register Saturday, Opus Dei Father Robert Gahl, professor of moral philosophy at the Pontifical University of the Holy Cross in Rome, said: “The Holy Father’s silence on vexing questions leaves the Church in suspense.” He added that this suspense “is intensified by the ambiguities” of the interim report on the synod which was issued Monday, “because we all expect our faith to be confirmed by the successor Peter.”
Voice of the Family, a coalition of pro-family groups, criticized the final message for sending out “weak and ambiguous” signals about the Church’s stance on sexual morality. Cardinal Raymundo Damasceno Assis, archbishop of Aparecida, Brazil, said it should have contained “a clear statement rejecting any openings to homosexuality, cohabitation, so-called ‘second marriages’, or contraception,” especially after the interim report whose content “caused scandal both inside and outside the synod.”
It should be noted however that three paragraphs of the Relatio Synodi did not receive the required two-thirds approval. Two of those paragraphs were on divorce and remarriage, and Paragraph 55 in the section on gay people. Paragraph 55 fell short of the two-thirds majority in 118 to 62 vote. Pope Francis nevertheless agreed to release the full Relatio for the sake of transparency, along with the vote totals at the end for each paragraph. The failure of paragraph 55 to reach a two-thirds vote is seen as a protest by some of the more progressive bishops, who object to watering down the passage.
It’s also important to note that the Relatio Synodi has no doctrinal authority, but is rather a set of discussion points to be considered between now and when the Synod meets again next year. The current Relatio however is being presented as interim guidelines to the Episcopal Conferences, which means that there would be no pressure to change how bishops respond to LGBT teachers and church members.
So what’s next? The Synod isn’t over, but will continue off and on for at least another year. An executive session will meet next month in Baltimore to draft a more detailed report which is expected to become a first draft for next year’s agenda. Meanwhile, the Pope reportedly told the Synod that they have a year to “mature” their ideas “with true spiritual discernment.” When the Synod meets again next October (and assuming the Synod doesn’t get extended further), it will issue a final Relatio, which, again, would not carry any authoritative doctrinal significance, but it would represent a consensus of the bishops. After that, it is customary for elements of a final Relatio to make their way into an Apostolic Exhortation, which, when promulgated by the Pope, becomes an official authoritative document of the Roman Catholic Church. There’s a lot that can happen between now and then:
When the synod reconvenes, it won’t be quite the same. Some who participated in this year’s meeting won’t be back (I’m thinking of papal critic Cardinal Raymond Burke). And Francis will likely select new cardinals come February. Why might a new-look synod matter? Because the sections that failed still had majority support. The paragraph on gay people, for example, failed by just six votes. But the synod fathers who want divorced and remarried Catholics to be able to receive the Eucharist have a longer row to hoe. Those sections failed by larger margins–and they did nothing more than state what had been discussed.
Meanwhile, just outside the walls of Vatican City, the mayor of Rome has registered sixteen same-sex marriages.
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Stephen
October 18th, 2014
Wow. Talk about big government.
Mike Michaels
October 18th, 2014
When will gays and lesbians understand that supporting mainstream organized religion is a form of self-loathing. If they want to believe the Bible is real, and not just a collection of very well written fictional stories, they need to follow a more personal and private study of the Bible and spirituality. Every time gay Catholics and Baptists get their hopes up, their religion does anything but act Christ-like and tells them their lives are meaningless. I just don’t understand how anyone could live like that…
Richard Rush
October 18th, 2014
Does the Relatio Synodi include language expressing a more welcoming tone for Catholic who marry Hindus, or should I assume that Maggie is still in tears?
Timothy Kincaid
October 18th, 2014
Mike,
There are more mainstream organized religious organizations than just the Catholic and Baptist churches.
In the US: most UCC, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, Quakers, Judaism, Buddhism, and many many more are completely welcoming and supportive.
Priya Lynn
October 18th, 2014
On the bright side at least this isn’t a world divided sharply into good 100% gay supporters and evil vile haters,with no place for the reporting of progress without bizarre assumptions of total change. Wouldn’t want to report this as backpedaling or backtracking to that evil vile hater position.
Thank god there are no mindsets that cannot get beyond dichotomy.
Priya Lynn
October 18th, 2014
I guess we should have all known better than to expect the catholic church behemoth to make significant change in less than a generation.
jerry
October 18th, 2014
Thus spake the Pedophile Protection Cult!
Lucrece
October 18th, 2014
Told you so. I know the shithole of a religion I grew up under ;)
Jim Hlavac
October 19th, 2014
why anyone thought they were changing is beyond me — for they weren’t going to call us “evil” — they were just going to think it and not say it – in the hope we’d give them money —
Look, they’re a bunch of men in dressed bitching about drag queens …
Mary in Austin
October 19th, 2014
Me, too, Lucrece.
Greg
October 19th, 2014
Oh for heaven’s sake why would any self-respecting gay person remain a member in such an organization?
While they are at it, perhaps the bishops should propose painting over the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, painted by a purportedly gay artist? A nice eggshell white would be nice…
L. C. Burgundy
October 19th, 2014
Gee, what a surprise. Told ya so. You’re not going to even get baby steps on this issue from the current crop of reactionary bishops who are chosen for their loyalty, not their pastoral talents. The synod, at the end, had absolutely nothing to say to gay people. The message is clear: You have no talents the RCC wants, and you are not welcome.
Timothy Kincaid
October 19th, 2014
I think you’re mistaken, they do want the gifts
… they just don’t want to say “thank you” for them.
Timothy Kincaid
October 19th, 2014
snark aside, as disappointing as this retreat was, there is a very bright lining to this cloud.
When we talk about the “they” who are pulling back the welcome, we have to remember that this is just over a third of the bishops. Almost two-thirds voted for the language of welcome (though in a watered down version).
Gene in L.A.
October 19th, 2014
“Oh for heaven’s sake why would any self-respecting gay person remain a member in such an organization?”
Because self-respecting gay people can genuinely disagree how such matters apply to them. Every time one of us categorically slams Catholicism or any other religion we’re doing exactly what they do when they categorically denigrate us. We are not all alike under the umbrella of our homosexuality, and they are not all alike in how they practice the tenets of their chosen faith. Some of us are them, and some of them are us.
Steve
October 19th, 2014
Don’t confuse the Catholic Church as an organization with the sheep. There are some decent Catholics yes, but the hierarchy is completely evil and immoral.
JB Taylor
October 19th, 2014
Thanks Gene. Catholicism is as much of my “identity” as being gay is. I didn’t ask to be raised Catholic, but there it is and I value that and my religious community. And my husband, and my son. Some gays and Catholics alike tell me I can’t be both, but they’re not the majority and they don’t rule me.
Priya Lynn
October 19th, 2014
Throw off the shackles JB. The Catholic church has nothing to offer you but oppression.
Sharon B
October 20th, 2014
The RCCI smacks you around, but won’t even buy you flowers afterwards. : (
Nathaniel
October 20th, 2014
To PL and others, please don’t forget that just because you don’t get something of value from a religion doesn’t mean others can’t or shouldn’t. Where some see shackles, others see security or even freedom.
In addition to the value we find in our faith, those of us who stay with the Church also recognize that change will only come from within. Anti-gay denominations will not change their tune unless they are made to realize the spiritual poverty of that stance. But they will not realize it as long as those who are LGBT or Allied keep leaving. Many of us see things worth saving in the Church and in our denominations, and we would rather try to rescue the Church from itself rather than abandon it for dead, along with its treasures.
Please, also, be mindful that Baptists do not operate with the same hierarchical structures of many other denominations. A primary tenet of Baptist teaching is the priesthood of the believer, which instructs us that every believer is qualified to interpret scripture for herself. Thus, Baptist churches are usually seen as independent, though they often ally themselves with other like-minded congregations. I suspect many of your think Southern Baptist when you think of Baptists, but they are not the only Baptist association. And while they may seem hierarchical and monolithic, this is mostly because, if any congregations disagree with an SBC teaching, they are kicked out of the Convention rather than be allowed to move and change it. So, welcoming and affirming Baptist churches abound, much like welcoming and affirming Methodist churches. But, unlike Methodists, those churches do not have to answer to anti-gay forces within a denominational hierarchy.
Priya Lynn
October 20th, 2014
Nathaniel, there is no good in believing falsehoods about eternal life, eternal torture, or an imaginary leader defined by ancient ignorant people.
So, no, you shouldn’t attempt to find anything of value in religion because it is a denial of reality and that prevents us from making the best possible world.
Priya Lynn
October 20th, 2014
I wouldn’t hate religion so much if the religious would leave children out of it and stop indoctrinating them. If you want to preach to adults who are capable of making informed decisions that’s fine, but filling children’s head full of religion is child abuse.
Richard Rush
October 20th, 2014
Nathaniel said, “Many of us see things worth saving in the Church . . .”
Me, too, but there are only three things I can think of right now: 1) Architecture, 2) Music, and 3) other art. I wish I could include other aspects, such as fellowship, but I can’t because they are all entwined with nonsensical beliefs. Of course, the three things I would save are entwined also, but they are powerful enough to stand on their own. After all, those things were created precisely because they arouse powerful human emotions and thus were an effective tool for promoting religion.
About forty years ago, on a weekday, I wandered into St. Thomas Church in New York City (just a few blocks from St. Patrick’s Cathedral). The combination of the architecture, music (the organist was practicing), and the way the sun was streaming through the stained glass windows created an awesomely powerful experience. I’m sure that many people would have interpreted it as a religious experience, but I knew better.
Timothy Kincaid
October 20th, 2014
On this thread I see some someone saying that he has certain religious beliefs which he values. I may not share his beliefs but I respect his choices and his values.
But, alas, there’s another who says “no”, he should change his religious beliefs to what they believe. Because their beliefs about religion are true and lead to a better life, etc. etc.
Ah, evangelism. It’s annoying whether it’s in the form of a tract from someone knocking at my door, a screaming man waving a sign at pride paraders, or a person in a chat room telling us that only their beliefs about religion are right and true and good.
Priya Lynn
October 20th, 2014
That’s the great thing about a democracy – its an open marketplace of ideas and the best ones often win.
Priya Lynn
October 20th, 2014
Assuming all voices get equal opportunity, lol, which too often isn’t the case in the dominated by wealthy conservatives United States.
Gene in L.A.
October 20th, 2014
Even as a rationalist myself, I cringe at the zeal with which some others pursue the same trail. Evangelism carried to its extreme is simple bullying, and both sides do it.
Chris
October 20th, 2014
I too was discouraged by the pullback in the final document, but I wouldn’t say it was a total victory for the hard-liners. As Andrew Sullivan reports, for gay people and our concerns even to be aired is a major step forward.
If I could be permitted a football analogy. Before Francis, gay Catholics were at best on the 1 yard line, and ready for a safety. In the first few months of his papacy, we ground out, let’s say, a ten yard gain (the “Who am I to judge?” stuff). The mid-Synod relatio was like a 50 yard bomb, so now we were in opponents’ territory…and THEY were scared shitless.
The final report was like a 15 yard sack. So, yeah, that’s deflating after such a huge gain, but we’re still better off than where we started.
Priya Lynn
October 20th, 2014
“Even as a rationalist myself, I cringe at the zeal with which some others pursue the same trail. Evangelism carried to its extreme is simple bullying, and both sides do it.”.
There’s nothing an atheist says that even remotely compares to the severity of religionists suggesting people who don’t worship their god will be tortured for eternity.
This is not a situation where both sides are equally as strident.
Nathaniel
October 21st, 2014
PL, if there is no reward/punishment for following/not following your beliefs about religion, then why are you so adamant about condemning those that disagree with you? You may not be condemning people to “be tortured for eternity” in an imaginary Hell, but you are threatening those who disagree with you with the Hell of Ostracism, or the Hell of Not-being-taken-seriously-on-any-matter. Just because your Hells are more realistic doesn’t make them any less Hellish. This is the last thing I will say on the matter: I think it is sad for you to be unwilling to live-and-let-live, even though you understand what it means to be persecuted for your own beliefs about yourself and the Universe.
Priya Lynn
October 21st, 2014
I’m not condemning or threatening anyone Nathaniel – stop lying.
That there is no reward/punishment for following/not following one’s beliefs about religion is irrelevant. The reason why I oppose religion is that people use it to try and remake the world according to their religious beliefs and that does have a direct negative effect on me and society as a whole. Just because there is no reward/punishment in an afterlife for religious belief or beliefs about religion does not mean I should be happy to sit quietly by while there is unjust reward/punishment in this life for religious belief or belief about religion. Like ISIS committing genocide and extreme oppression in the name of their religion or chrisitans tormenting little children with talk of eternal torture, or only christians being able to win election to political office.
I’m not threatening to ostracise anyone and as for describing not being taken seriously as hell all I can say is grow up, that’s absurd. Lots of christians don’t take me seriously and you sure don’t hear me describing that hyperbolically as hell.
Having your beliefs criticized is not persecution in any sense of the word. What’s persecution is having someone try to deny you equal rights because of their beliefs or threaten you with eternal torture if you don’t go along with their beliefs.
Christians like you flip out when someone criticizes your beliefs but you don’t think twice of obnoxiously offering to pray for people who haven’t asked for it or blindly assuming no one could take offense when you make comments like “We are all god’s children” in a crowd or on a forum. Christians have an unjustified sense of privilege, they think no one has a right to criticize when they publicly push their religion and don’t leave people with the chance to opt out of it and yet they think non-believers don’t have a right to speak publicly. Somehow christians think all speech can be criticized except religious speech, that’s supposed to be out of bounds.
Well, chrisitans don’t have a special right to be free from criticism in mine or rationality’s book.
Priya Lynn
October 21st, 2014
And because I know many christians won’t tolerate the level of criticism they feel free to give to others I’ll leave it at that.
Nathaniel
October 22nd, 2014
OK, maybe not the last thing. PL, it seems to me you are as sensitive to criticism of your beliefs as you assume I am. I don’t mind criticism; what I don’t appreciate is you telling people that they just need to quit their religion, regardless of what good they get out of it (Direct quote: “Throw off the shackles JB. The Catholic church has nothing to offer you but oppression.”). Indeed, many of the things you complain about aren’t inherent to religion but to human nature in general. Seeking power and control, condemning those who are different; religion is a tool used by those seeking power, not the other way around. Live-and-let-live does not mean turning a blind eye to evil. I means recognizing that “different” is not the same as evil, and letting those who are different live as they see fit, as long as no one else is hurt by it. Religion is not your enemy. Your enemy is people abusing religion for power and control.
William Rogers
October 25th, 2014
WOW, just came in to see the chatter here- had no idea I’d see the same intolerance in the rest of the world, IE:theists vs. atheists. There’s no reason they cannot coexist, and gay people’s intolerance of theists or atheists is sadly ironic. Shame on both camps!
Ben in oakland
October 25th, 2014
The intolerance isn’t of theists. The intolerance is of theist who think that their particular, peculiar version of God should go ern the lives of people who don’t share their beliefs.
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