Box Turtle Bulletin
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobby“Now you must raise your children up in a world where that union of man and box turtle is on the same legal footing as man and wife…”
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobbyNovember 17th, 2010
GOProud is an organization of conservative gay people driven entirely by identity politics. They see themselves first as “not the Left”, secondarily as “conservatives”, third as partisan Republicans, and finally in a far distant place as gay. Unlike Log Cabin Republicans, the gay group who measures each issue against it’s matrix of beliefs, GOProud is reactionary, selecting their positions and candidates based primarily on what they think will most annoy liberal gay people and organizations.
So it is not at all surprising that GOProud has weighed in on a controversial but fairly non-consequential issue: Willow Palin’s homophobic slurs.
This all started on Monday when Willow got into a facebook squabble with another teen. She was “defending her mother” against this kid’s criticism that Sarah Palin’s Alaska, the new Palin reality show that premiered on Monday, was “failing”. Willow responded with the “you’re gay” putdown, followed by a homophobic slur:
Willow is a kid who did not ask to be Sarah Palin’s daughter and who has not pushed herself into the spotlight. Further, as best I can tell this was not an attack intended to reflect on anyone’s sexual orientation but rather typical of the careless and hurtful language that has saturated the youth culture. So I’m not quick to accuse her of homophobia or question her character.
But it is fair to note that this reflects on the Palin parenting style as well as the values of Todd and Sarah Palin. This is a classless exchange. And while my parents were conservative and certainly anti-gay, I would never have dared use this language.
So, to me, it is relevant that no one has, to date, apologized for the language used, or even suggested that it was inappropriate. Not a huge issue to me, but not outside of the realm of acceptable criticism.
But GOProud has leaped to the defense of Sarah Palin, one of their idols. If “the Left” is going to criticize the use of a hurtful slur, then they will defend it. (TMZ)
GOProud.org just told TMZ, “The ‘slur’ used here is one you could hear on the streets of West Hollywood or Chelsea every day of the week. Apparently, it’s only a homophobic slur when it comes from the daughter of a conservative female leader.”
I can’t speak for Chelsea, but you WILL NOT hear that slur “on the streets of West Hollywood” any day of the week.
I don’t know what kind of language that GOProud’s Tammy Bruce (a local boring talk-show host) uses in private, or what her social circle has to say about gay men when they can’t be heard. And her “Boys in the Band” mentality may be shared by whatever self-loathing people she finds to confirm and bolster her need to be “not like them.”
But that slur reflects a complete lack of self-respect and a capitulation to a mindset that sees oneself and one’s community as worthless and deserving of contempt. It is entirely socially unacceptable in public or in any gay circles of which I am a part. And this is particularly true on the streets of West Hollywood.
The last time I hear that word used on Santa Monica Boulevard, a diminutive young lady tackled the guy saying it and began pounding her fists into his face. We don’t like that term so much, you see. And we have reason.
In 1984 when little WeHo became a city, the first night that it’s City Council met, it passed a non-discrimination ordinance. The council then marched down to Barney’s Beanery, a restaurant and bar within the new city limits, and confiscated their “Fagots – Stay Out” sign. That slur (and yes, it’s a slur even if Bruce puts in scare quotes) has not been welcome in West Hollywood since.
Just as I would never refer to Ms. Bruce with a term that denigrated her sex and orientation – in public or in private – she had best not bring her foul bigotry to the streets of my community. She best not dare.
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tim
November 17th, 2010
That slur (and yes, it’s a slur even if Bruce puts in scare quotes) has not been welcome in West Hollywood since.
Excuse me? Kincaid – I have no idea where you live and who you hang out with – but this is utter bullshit. I am no supporter of GOProud (nor the left’s equivalent) but faggot (with or without the quotes), queer, gay, and worse is brandied about West Hollywood and other gay neighborhoods every day of the week. It was flowing pretty freely on my last trip to West Hollywood as recently as August. So unless somethings changed in the least couple of months – you have no clue what you are talking about.
And it always amusing me that whenever one gay disagrees with a gays political position – they call them self-hating. That’s a cop out.
Continue to live in your non-existant politically correct utopia – I’ll continue to live in the real world.
Timothy Kincaid
November 17th, 2010
Nope, not true.
“Gay” is used constantly, and “queer” with some regularity. Even “fag” is heard. But not “faggot”.
I don’t know who you hung out with in August, but using that word – especially with a pejorative tone – will get you more than a little attention.
Maybe you think that your visit qualifies you as an expert, but this is my city. I know it far better than you.
CB
November 17th, 2010
I agree with Timothy Kincaid. GOProud is ignorant of the fact that Willow used the phrasing as an attack, a put down, a slur; she used it to demean another individual. Some will say, hey, she’s only a teenager…tell that to these young men…Oh wait! You can’t……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOxsR89ixaU
I don’t care if you are a gay Republican organization or gay Democrat organization, you don’t defend bigoted ignorance.
John
November 17th, 2010
What I don’t understand is if according to Tammy Bruce it’s okay what Willow Palin said because other gays allegedly use such language, why is she complaining about how Sarah Palin has been treated? After all, I’m quite certain that somewhere in this world you will find women using the same kinds of insults and slurs Sarah allegedly has had to endure. I really don’t care one way or the other about this. Willow is a child and I would agree that this is being made a big deal solely because of whom her mother is, that’s pathetically transparent. This is a matter for Sarah, Todd Palin and Willow to resolve and not the general public egged on by Sarah’s political foes. However, I do dislike hypocrisy and Bruce’s comments reek of it.
Spartann
November 17th, 2010
to Timmothy Kincaid…and company..
No surprise….. In fact at times I would expect someone to get his ass kicked if he was foolish enough to stand on a street corner in West Hollywood and yell out the contemptuous term you mentioned. Just as I would expect the same to happen to someone for doing similar in Watts or Harlem. However, why don’t you mention how gay men use the term when speaking about one another… just like African American’s today use an otherwise disparaging word when talking amongst themselves? Its because of this omission I honestly think you have a bigoted preference or inclination (especially one that inhibits impartial judgement) that you express in your own unfair assessment of the Palin family.
We’re talking about a 16 year old kid here. Can’tany of you nay sayers see you’re letting your own prejudice influence your opinion here? I mean come on, Willow Palin hasn’t done or said anything that 95% of American girls her age do on a regular basis. No offense gentlemen, and believe me I’m not saying I like the expression we’re discussing, but if you aren’t aware of the jargon kids are using nowadays, than I think you can’t objectively comment on it now.
I know it’s easy to point a finger at parents, but as children, when any of us were reprimanded by our folks for saying something off color… who amongst us can honestly say he/she instantly refrained from using the words again the moment we were chillin with our friends??? Not me…. What about you ?
Timothy Kincaid
November 17th, 2010
Spartann,
Are you gay?
John B F
November 17th, 2010
I can’t speak for Chelsea NYC but I do live here…you generally aren’t going to hear ‘faggot’ uttered around here, and you don’t.
Spartann
November 17th, 2010
to Timothy Kincaid….
Of course I’m gay… but what’s that have to do with anything? I mean being gay doesn’t automatically mean I have to buy into rhetoric like yours. Please don’t tell me you haven’t yet been confronted by a homosexual who is diametrically opposed to most, if not all of your bent?
Timothy Kincaid
November 17th, 2010
Spartann,
It has to do with your accusation that “gay men use the term when speaking about one another.”
This is not my experience. I do not hear gay men use this term about others with any frequency and on the times I have, they have been chastised.
So I asked if you are gay.
Were you not gay, then this would simply be a statement based on your own bigoted stereotypes about what gay men do or say. But since you are gay, this is based on your own personal experiences involving you and your own social circle.
Obviously, our social circles do not overlap. While mine includes Log Cabin Republicans and liberal Democrats, bar kids and married couples, younger and ahem not as young as we used to be, mine do not include people who use that slur.
As for “my bent”, I think you confuse political ideology for bigotry.
Theo
November 17th, 2010
In my view, “faggot” is little different than “queer” and “LGBT” when used by gay and lesbian people. They are all offensive because they are all based on the premise that gay people really aren’t just people attracted to their own sex, but rather are an inherently marginalized Other. It is one thing to be treated as an outsider; it is another thing to define oneself as an outsider. The former can be changed through education and outreach; the latter corrupts you from the inside.
Being a permanent rebel is an attractive prospect for a lot of urban, white gays, especially those in academia or who work as professional activists. But this is a terribly selfish and cruel thing to impose upon young gay people.
We have seen this past month how heavy a burden is carried by so many of these kids. We should not be adding to their burden by transmitting to them the idea that they can expect to live life on the margins, that they are in conflict with their gender, or that they should define themselves by the same words thrown at them by bullies at school.
Theo
November 17th, 2010
BTW, my comment above should not be taken as support for Tammy Bruce and GOProud’s views on the use of the term “faggot”. These folks clearly don’t understand the difference b/t intra-group usage of a slur and inter-group usage of the same slur. The latter is clearly worse and qualitatively different. For a gay adult to tell a gay kid that he is really “queer” or “LGBT” is wrong, in my opinion, but it is not at the same level as one kid calling another a “faggot”.
There is a mindless quality to some of the conservative gay rhetoric. I have always considered myself a conservative on various issues, and have always abhorred the dominance of jargon-driven political correctness in the gay community. But some gay conservatives, icnluding GOProud and the blogs HillBuzz and GayPatriot seem to mirror, rather than oppose, mindless PC.
Spartann
November 17th, 2010
to Timothy Kincaid…
Not so fast dude. You need to quit with that Polly-Anna routine of “one side of the street is better than the other”…. If you aren’t aware of the many less than cheeky ways homosexuals refer to each other, then I suggest you venture out from that cloistered environment you’ve been patrolling between Santa Monica and La Brea. Hell it can’t hurt… Who knows, It might even open your eyes to what the world is really like.
Oh and that last little dig of yours; you know the one right at the very end of your comment directed my way….. well dude, believe me, I’m not snookered. In fact I pegged you spot on.
A progressive ideology as I have observed you adhering to, leaves no room for even a marginal interpretation to squeak on in. That my friend is not just narrow minded…it is down right intolerantly devoted to the cause… In other words, bigotry in it’s purest form.
Timothy Kincaid
November 17th, 2010
theo,
Yes, I’ve observed that they operate out of a distorted form of group-think. They try to respond in exactly the opposite of what they think “the Left” will do, regardless of the situation. It is as mindless as any rigid adherence to a PC code.
Stefano A
November 17th, 2010
I think this is true of some gays as well. The same as some lesbians will use the word “dyke”. To me it’s linked to the school of thought that one should “own” the word to flip it.
While amongst my own network of friends, it’s not common for us to refer to each other as either “fag” or “faggot”, I have heard it used by those “in the family” as they say.
But whether or not some gays use the words amongst themselves in a similar way (similar to the use of the “n” word among African Americans) is beside the point.
The point is the denial by GoProud of it’s pejorative usage in the context it was used, and the defense they put up.
A denial that ignores the amount of flack any person in the media spot light receives from coaches, to athletes, to rappers, to actors and actresses, to politicians, to school teachers, to high school football teams engaging in “chants” as has been reported recently. So to claim that the only reason Willow is being criticizes is because of whom her mother is, is just not a credible defense.
Timothy Kincaid
November 17th, 2010
Spartann,
I took a few moments to go read some of your comments at other sites. And now I have no respect for you or your opinions – they seem to speak from a barely masked hatred.
Having deduced your character, I don’t much care what you think of me or my (incorrectly presumed) ideology.
Stefano A
November 17th, 2010
Hmmm. So the long list of suicides by bullied teenagers by their peers is all just fiction?
Because a pejorative is in common usage (just as the “n” word once once), that makes it excusable?
I don’t buy that line of thinking.
Is the Palin family’s notoriety a factor in the amount of attention being given the incident? Yes, the same as all people (and their families) attract media attention. The same way it attracts attention when a politicians child is caught breaking the law (drunk driving, drug usage, wearing a Nazi costume to a fancy dress party).
truthreller
November 17th, 2010
There is no way I would use that slur, nor does anyone in my large circle of friends use it either. This is indefensible and reveals the internalized self-hatred of GOPshame.
16 years old is old enough to know better.
CB
November 17th, 2010
@ Spartann…
You used the excuse that I mentioned in my previous comment that she is a teenager…
Your quote….
“We’re talking about a 16 year old kid here. Can’tany of you nay sayers see you’re letting your own prejudice influence your opinion here?”
Now, you probably noticed I did a ‘shameless’ plug for my YouTube about bullying, although it was not a plug as much as it was about the age of those who passed away. She is 16. If you watched the video you found that 5 of the 7 individuals mentioned were under 16…Justin Aaberg (15), Billy Lucas (15), Seth Walsh (13), Asher Brown (13), and Brandon E. Bitner (14).
So, what you are trying to say is, since she is 16, it is alright for her to demean and bully others because she is just a kid and that we should not scold her, because others say the same thing? This is supposedly a ‘Christian’ family with ‘Christian’ values. Hate is taught!
TampaZeke
November 17th, 2010
Spartann is most definitely NOT gay, or as s/he says “homosexual”. S/he is just a sh!t stirrer who trolls gay sites.
Paul J. Stein
November 17th, 2010
Whenever I was called a faggot someone went to the E.R. Sometimes I was doing the ass whooping, sometimes my straight buddies [farmboys} would jump in and let me sit it out. I guess it depends on who does the name calling and where it is being done. Sometimes my ex-girlfriend/ex-wife would be kicking but in high school, educating the ignorant. I took all the support as a form of love in action!
Spartann
November 17th, 2010
to TampaZeke…
First of all Mary, go scratch your back side up against a tree, a bush, hell even grab a rock if you think that will help to remove it….. cause obviously something uncomfortable has been lodged up your butt for a while now and needs to come out.
================================
to Timothy Kincaid….
I gotta admit I’m beyond being flattered to know you’d take the time to peruse the web, when all you really had to do is ask …… Having said that, don’t you think you need to quit being so damned dramatic….??? Remember we’re suppose to be dealing with what’s in front of us here… I mean that is what you’re forever reminding everyone to do, ain’t it????
Neon Genesis
November 17th, 2010
While saying the f word may be offensive, isn’t it just as immature and offensive for people to go around punching people in the face just because they said an offensive word? Can’t we be more grown up than that?
justsearching
November 17th, 2010
In my opinion, I don’t think we can really conclude much about the Palins’ parenting style based on this little exchange. Kids, especially on-line, trash talk. As for Go-Proud, I’ve never understood what motivated them, but your guess that they select “their positions and candidates based primarily on what they think will most annoy liberal gay people and organizations” sounds about right.
Ben Mathis
November 18th, 2010
I ask my gay friends not to use the word fagot, as I do find it offensive even from another gay person.
That said, another gay person saying it in jest, is not in any way comparable to a person in a position of privilege using it at a slur on a historically discriminated against minority.
Sure she´s 16, but that speaks even worse of her mother that she didn´t raise her better. My father is a baptist minister, and he´s not all that accepting of me being gay, but he never allowed us to use language like that, and it never came out of his mouth either.
Jafuf
November 18th, 2010
Seems the old adage “The fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree” applies here. I’m quite sure she learned the words from her mother as most children do.
Jafuf
November 18th, 2010
By the way, how does she do with nigger, kike, spic, chink, etc.? Well, here’s one for her…moron!!!
ZRAinSWVA
November 18th, 2010
If my nieces used the words she did (including STFU), they’d lose serious privileges for a long while–after a very stern lecture from their parents.
“Fagot” is not common venacular in my circles, nor would it be tolerated. It was used to denigrate me and folks like me for much of my life, and it will not happen again!
customartist
November 18th, 2010
One thing is likely:
Willow parrots her parents points of view on the stance of Gays.
______________________
Palin is the “Leader of the Tea Party”.
While the Tea Party touts Social Liberties, they will indeed vote in line with the Republican Party when elected into office, to include on Gay issues.
BlackDog
November 18th, 2010
@ Neuterthehomos
Morons shouldn’t breed.
…
Seriously ya’ll, what the frak is it with rightwing nutjobs hamming it up on comment threads everywhere these days? Yahoo news is the worst, can’t even scroll down to the most recent comments without seeing something that just screams ignorant redneck moron. Now are we even gonna start seeing that shit here?
Wow.
I sure hope not.
BlackDog
November 18th, 2010
@ Customartist
Since when did the Tea Party tout social liberties *For anyone making less than six figures?*
The entire crux of their ideology is perfect liberty for the fortunate few and everybody else can go hang. What’s sad is most Tea Partiers…certianly none of the ones that I know…would meet the requirements for their perfect liberty because most of them are poor.
Leo
November 18th, 2010
I live in NY and am not aware of any wide spread use of the word here among gay men. Sure it may get bantered around among certain circles of friends, maybe after a few too many drinks as an “inside” joke. But it’s certainly not a word that anybody tosses around lightly or frequently.
Yes Willow is a 16 year old kid and I agree this shouldn’t be made into any more than it is. But she is the 16 year old kid of woman who aspires to what is arguably the most important leadership role in the world—you would think things like this would be, ahem, managed better.
Priya Lynn
November 18th, 2010
CB said “So, what you are trying to say is, since she is 16, it is alright for her to demean and bully others because she is just a kid and that we should not scold her, because others say the same thing?”.
I couldn’t agree more. Adolescents frequently make other children’s lives a living hell with their bullying and this “She is just 16” and “Boys will be boys” BS has got to stop. Any child older than 6 is well capable of comprehending a rule against insulting and bullying others and its high time people stopped excusing this heinous behavior and put in the minimal effort it would take to put an end to it.
I also agree with Tampazeke, its doubtful that Spartann is gay, he’s just a heteorosexual conservative overflowing with hate and full of many issues.
Spartann
November 18th, 2010
to Leo…
When’s the last time you tried managing what a child says ? Wouldn’t you agree, most adults have a hard enough time keeping a handle on what they themselves blurt out??? An example being, the frequency elected leaders today are forced to walk back so much of what they say.
=================================
to Priya Lynn
Ahhh so you think I’m straight because unlike most homosexuals I refuse to espouse the political beliefs of a namby pamby interventionist party that promotes a cradle to grave dependence of a populace…… Well Miss Tu, call me what you will; but seriously lady, you’re the one that needs to snap out out of it. Because as long as people like you allow themselves to be codified, none of you will ever come out a winner.
Ben M
November 18th, 2010
I wonder how this would have played out had someone used the word “retard” towards Willow. Certainly in my experienced, what used to be “thats retarded” is now “thats so gay,” yet use that word around Sarah and you can be sure even a teenager would be in trouble.
@Ben Mathis – I agree with you, I know no one in my social circle, straight or gay, use the work faggot.
Priya Lynn
November 18th, 2010
LOL. Spartann, I’m very much a winner, life couldn’t be better and I have full equality where I live. Its you who is obviously very dissatisfied with your life.
Spartann
November 18th, 2010
to Priya Lynn…
So what’s next on your repertoire of come backs Lady, “I know you are but what am I ??? “
Tony Jazz
November 18th, 2010
Isn’t it time to start ignoring the ten members that are GOProud?
Timothy Kincaid
November 18th, 2010
Spartann,
You will quit calling people names like “Mary” and “Miss Tu” or you will be banned from this site.
Spartann
November 18th, 2010
to Timothy Kincaid….
Wait a minute my friend. People on this site can insult, defame, malign and even go as far as addressing someone by an expletive and you look the other way. Yet when I select an often used term of endearment many of us commenting on this site are familiar with, you consider those words to be over the top….. Yo, what’s with the double standard here dude… ?
ZRAinSWVA
November 18th, 2010
@ Spartann, who wrote, “When’s the last time you tried managing what a child says?”
You start when they’re young and teach them what you value and why–with a lot of reinforcement. You also establish that there are repercussions if they do no meet expectations. It’s called being involved as a responsible parent.
My two sisters and most of the people I know with children have managed it quite handily.
Spartann
November 18th, 2010
to ZRAinSWVA….
That’s a lot of hooey….. and you know it. Otherwise someone like Mother Theresa would have been the norm and not the exception.
ZRAinSWVA
November 18th, 2010
Spartann, it doesn’t always work, no, but in general you get from the child what they’re taught by the parent. And even while they’re in the swirl of teenagehood with horomones raging, kids know right from wrong based on what they’ve been taught and the expectations that have been set. They may not always do ‘right’, but they still know it’s ‘wrong’. Same with acceptable speech. If my nieces called me a fagot or told me to STFU, we’d sit down and have a very serious talk.
Spartann
November 18th, 2010
to ZRAinSWVA…
I can assure you if any of my 2 brothers’ kids said similar they’d get more than a talking to. However, that’s when they’re around me…. because when they’re with their peers it’s a whole other story. And you my friend are only deluding yourself if you believe your sibling’s kids are innocent of the same.
cls
November 18th, 2010
Three points:
1. West Hollywood politicians had no business confiscating a sign, even a hateful sign. Boycott would have been a better solution and one in keeping with the First Amendment and speech rights.
2. Bruce may be a lesbian but that doesn’t mean she likes gay men. I’ve read her trashy books and she has engaged in very bigoted comments about men in general, gay men in particular. I suspect she became a conservative to justify her her anti-gay (only gay men) prejudices. She is a the cut-rate version of Ann Coulter.
cls
November 18th, 2010
Sorry, that cut off the third point:
3. I have never heard “faggot” used in my trips to West Hollywood. I have a good friend who lives there and visit her when I can. We have spent entire afternoons in restaurants with other people and I have spent a good deal of time walking around and shopping at various establishments. I never heard the word used there. That is just my limited survey of the topic.
Priya Lynn
November 18th, 2010
CLS said “West Hollywood politicians had no business confiscating a sign, even a hateful sign.”.
Yes they did, the sign broke the law and they had a right to enforce the law.
Timothy Kincaid
November 18th, 2010
cls,
Re: point 1. The city passed a non-discrimination ordinance and it was in that context that the sign was confiscated.
Ryan
November 18th, 2010
Cis and some others are right. I live in West Hollywood and people don’t call each other faggots. And of course, people like Bruce pretend to be confused as to why gay people can say fag and straight people can’t or black people can use the n word and white people can’t, but I refuse to believe anyone is truly that dumb, even GO Proud.
Ray
November 18th, 2010
I guessing Spartann isn’t a parent.
When I was a child my mother warned me that she would beat the white off my backside if I ever used the n-word or if I ever entered a segregated business. That lesson stuck and I applied it with my own child, not merely on the issue of race but also with respect to gay people. I’m *certain* my daughter never used anti-anyone slurs. In fact, when I read the mounds of research on gay and lesbian parenting and found out that one of the more remarkable outcomes was that the children of gays are remarkably accepting of diversity, it certainly rang true for me as a parent. That was the *real* difference I could see in my own kid. She was/is always respectful in her language and behavior towards others. I don’t know why other parents can’t seem to produce that same kind of temperament in their own kids. All I know is that my mother took deliberate steps to produce it in me and my siblings and that we, in turn, were able to produce that kind of respect in our own kids. Yeah, we “managed” it. It works. I had to “manage” as a public school teacher. It works there, too.
Jimmy
November 18th, 2010
Isn’t it about intent? Context is everything and the way things are said is important to consider.
As to Ms. Bruce, she always seems so negative and steeped in victimization, a common trait among her cadre of ideological conservatives.
Spartann
November 18th, 2010
to Jimmy….
Talk about a “woe-is-me” kind of clique and their ideology, have you read more than just a few of the comments posted on this or any other gay discussion website??? My friend you won’t find a better example of the “us-against-them” corps anywhere else on the net.
Priya Lynn
November 18th, 2010
LOL, nice “I know you are, but what am I?” Spartann.
John
November 18th, 2010
Point of information: what does “Miss Tu” reference and why is this considered to be derogatory? This is the first I’ve ever seen that phrase. Thanks.
Amicus
November 18th, 2010
Wow.
Willow’s usage is plainly – plainly – deprecatory, linking “disgusting” with “so gay” and “faggot”.
And, from time to time, one does hear that word, “faggot” inside the community, more often than not it is with the same deprecatory usage. And, therefore, ugly.
So, it really, really doesn’t matter what Tammy Bruce said. We’d concur that the most frequent usage is deprecatory.
There are some people who do use it to pretend that it has been “reclaimed”. I have to say, those usages fall hard on the ear, still, for me. It’s like it’s forced. Like a little kid saying “dick” or “twat” for the first time.
I’ve never heard “faggot” used in a playful manner or as a term of endearment. Never. I can think of only a few instances where I’ve seen it used as a badge of solidarity (unwisely, I think, but …).
truthreller
November 18th, 2010
Timothy,
I’m glad you put a stop to people calling men by female names or pronouns on this site, because, in my view, it denigrates both men and women.
It denigrates women because its roots are misogynistic and it reinforces the “inferiority” of women.
It denigrates men because it imposes a false-self on men and reinforces the idea that men cannot be whole if they love another man and therefore he must be demoted; “inferior” like a woman.
I think this is a misogynistic under-the-radar way of reinforcing the idea that gay men are defective. This, in my opinion, leads to psyche harm that contributes to self-destructive habits and actions in the part of gay men who don’t feel whole and worthy as they are.
Donny D.
November 19th, 2010
I haven’t, unfortunately, been to West Hollywood lately, but here in San Francisco Bay Area I NEVER hear gay men refer to themselves or one another with the f word. So Tammy Bruce is full of it. Okay, maybe she’s remembering back to a FEW YEARS in the late 1970s when a minority of gay men are supposed to have referred to themselves proudly as such (like Chas in John Rechy’s book Rushes) but I don’t remember hearing it even then. What’s happening here is that Tammy Bruce is defending Sarah Palin, and trying to turn her defense into an attack against anyone in the LGB community who is to the left of Genghis Khan.
Steve
February 7th, 2013
““I felt it was harsh myself. I’m from Southern California, and in Southern California they refer to themselves as fags….”
http://www.texasobserver.org/224-political-intelligence/
Timothy Kincaid
February 7th, 2013
Steve,
You referenced a 2001 article in which a straight woman in Texas claims that “they” call themselves “fags” in Southern California.
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