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Greg Quinland Takes Message To NJ Church As Promised

Daniel Gonzales

August 28th, 2007

Last November Timothy Kincaid reported at Ex-Gay Watch that Greg Quinlan planned on taking his ex-gay and anti-gay political message to the churches of New Jersey.

PressOfAtlanticCity.com reports Quinlan will take his message to Cumberland County Community Church this weekend.

Since the Ex-Gay Survivor’s Movement has begun there has been a sea-change in how ex-gay issues have been phrased and debated. Cumberland’s paster, Sal Roggio, seems to have picked up on the new and admittedly weak party being used by people pushing ex-gay therapy saying:

“When you lie to someone, you take away their hope,” he said. “I want folks to come in and know there’s hope.”

This “deny people hope” line appears to have been first employed by Randy Thomas and (speaking from personal experince) was met with laughter by ex-gay survivors.

Really guys, come up with a better angle than that.

(via Good As You)

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Timothy Kincaid
August 28th, 2007 | LINK

“I once had a person tell me, ‘You think I chose this lifestyle?'” Roggio said.

Nope. It didn’t happen.

I’m willing to bet that there is no one out there who said those words. Because when a gay person talks about not having a choice, they mean over their attractions or their orientation. Only anti-gays pretend that it’s only a “lifestyle”. We realize that if sexuality were nothing more than a lifestyle, then of course you could simply decide to live differently – no prob.

What most likely was said was something like, “do you think I chose to be gay and have people like you condemning me and harassing me and passing laws against me?”.

But Roggio is more concerned with pressing his anti-gay agenda than he is in telling the truth.

Or so I suspect.

Lynn David
August 28th, 2007 | LINK

There was a time when you grew up in your faith (mine was Roman Catholic) and you knew of only one hope for your future, marriage & family. It is surely what drove many a gay man into ill-conceived marriages and has been the cause of much sorrow, if not some joy in their children.

Those were lives lived, joyful or sorrowful as they might be. But if life be what occurs betwixt our highs which is hope and the lows which is despair. Then for some gay people we sometimes find our former hopes becoming not necessarily our despairs, but that which denied us our truest hope, and that which caused us our deepest despair becoming just an avenue to that true hope. Denial of hope can be a two-way street.

Rich
August 30th, 2007 | LINK

I have news for anyone who thinks theat Pastor Sal Roggio lies. I have known him for a very long time and this is the most caring and honest man I have ever met. Anyone who says something he said didn’t happen has never met him and is completly ignorant. The man is preaching the truth and offering help to those who want it. He isn’t pushing anything on anybody. He is friends with quite a few homosexuals. Please don’t make comments on someone you don’t even know. If you wanted help with something wouldn’t you want to know where to go.

Ken R
August 31st, 2007 | LINK

Rich,

I wouldn’t say personally that Pastor Roggio lies to deceive anyone intentionally and he probably is a nice man. I don’t doubt you believe he preaches the truth but you must realize that his “truth” may not necessarily be “THE” truth. Or God’s truth. It’s his own interpretation of Scripture. I know other ministers that preach something different. They come to different conclusions to what certain passages are. They will agree on some but disagree on others. Which one of them speaks the truth?

A question if you please Rich. Does Pastor Sal Roggio preach against the sin of divorce and remarriage (adultery)? Does he help those that have divorced and remarried come out of those sinful second marriages and help the former sinful couple refrain from any chance of remarriage and future sexual relations? If he doesn’t, then he supports sin. And if he remarrys divorced people (if their first marriage didn’t end on the note of adultery which remarriage is allowed) then he promotes sin. So please ask him where he stands on the issue of divorce and remarriage. I would like to hear it.

God Bless

Rich
August 31st, 2007 | LINK

1 Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders.

Ken, if you read this verse it is pretty easy to see that it can’t be taken any other way. It is not a interpretation issue. It is not a matter of opinion. This is what God’s word says. I also understand that some churchs excuse this but if you read the word it is pretty clear what it says.
Now, that is not to say the homosexual is any less a person than anyone else. Pastor Sal and I both have homosexual friends. We just don’t agree on the issues. And unless you believe what the bible says than we never will. Like I said before he is offering help to those who want it. He is not bashing anyone. To believe what God says or not is up to the individual. We are just responsible to bring it.
And to answer your question Pastor Sal is very strict on the marriage issue. I don’t know if helps people to get out of second marriages but, I do know he looks into your reasons and if he doesn’t think that you are ready or that the marriage is wrong, he wont do it.

Timothy Kincaid
August 31st, 2007 | LINK

Rich,

You seem to have forgotten that the letter to the church in Corinth was not written in English. And translation from ancient Greek to English is, actually, an “interpretation issue”. And you probably don’t know that the words you are relying on so comfortably, may well not relate to homosexuality at all.

You see, Rich, although there were many many MANY words available for Paul to use in condemning homosexuality or homosexuals (same-sex coupling being quite common and open at the time) he chose to make up his own word. And people have been guessing ever since at what that word meant.

Anti-gay folks like to think it means homosexual offenders. Others see no evidence of this interpretation whatsoever. As it turns out there was no concurrent usage of arsenokoitai so we can know for certain.

The best research that I’ve seen seems to suggest that this term has something to do with purchases (perhaps prostitution). But that’s only a guess as well.

Now personally, I think relying on what one word may possibly mean (but might not) is pretty flimsy support for justifying discrimination against a group of people. And I think that basing an ex-gay theology on such an arrogant assumption is pretty shakey.

Now you make a good point about “what the Bible says”. And I believe it – but not the same way you do. And I doubt you believe “what God’s word says” in the way that you claim to.

For example, I don’t think “slaves obey your masters” is a justification for slavery. But it’s right there in black and white. And I don’t think that women should keep quiet in church and only be told later by their husbands what it all meant. But that’s there too. I don’t think disobedient children should be stoned or that if a man dies that his brother must impregnate his widow. But that’s there too.

You see, Rich, I think the Bible is complex and written to reach different cultures at different times. We find slavery abhorent, Paul did not. We think women are intelligent and to be included, Paul didn’t.

But yet the underlying truths about God’s grace and mercy are true for all ages and all people. As the epistles and the acts tell us, the early church was unable to agree about what was or was not acceptable, but they agreed in the sacrifice of Christ and that was enough to be considered part of those in The Way.

Perhaps you disagree with them.

So if you want to proof text and search for scriptures in English that agree with what you want and instist that they are literal and exact (as written in English) while ignoring the ones you don’t like, well that’s your right.

But you will have to excuse that we don’t find such arguments compelling. Or godly.

Ken R
August 31st, 2007 | LINK

Rich says:

1 Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders.

Ken, if you read this verse it is pretty easy to see that it can’t be taken any other way. It is not a interpretation issue. It is not a matter of opinion. This is what God’s word says. I also understand that some churchs excuse this but if you read the word it is pretty clear what it says.

Unfortunately, you have been deceived by a translation error. If the bible says, “homosexual” then the book is in error. The word “homosexual” was not coined until the late 19th century. And it was not until 1945 did the word homosexual appear in the Bible. Bible translators placed it in the Bible in a serious gross error. Perhaps done in a bias attempt against gay people? I would really look into it if I were you Rich. I have read several different Bibles with the clobber passages against gays and not all have the word homosexual in it. And only those that point out what they call the sin of homosexuality have the word homosexual in their bibles. Kind of convenient isn’t it?

To be consistant with his own beliefs Pastor Roggio MUST demand that second marriages be absolved for any reason other than the case of adultery in the first marriage. He must counsel them to remain celibate for the rest of their lives. If he does not then he is promoting the sin of adultery (Matthew 5 v.31-32). Being ready for marriage is one thing if this is your first marriage. But if he blesses second marriages then he is inconsistent with his own beliefs and promotes sin.

As for Greg Quinlan, he is a professional paid ex-gay. And if you want to read stories of those that were once ex-gay and went through the whole process and came out subsequently damaged from their experience by such ex-gay programs then please go to this website. http://www.beyondexgay.com

God Bless

Ken R
August 31st, 2007 | LINK

Correction: absolved should have been dissolved in this sentence.

To be consistant with his own beliefs Pastor Roggio MUST demand that second marriages be dissolved for any reason other than the case of adultery in the first marriage. He must counsel them to remain celibate for the rest of their lives. If he does not then he is promoting the sin of adultery (Matthew 5 v.31-32). Being ready for marriage is one thing if this is your first marriage. But if he blesses second marriages then he is inconsistent with his own beliefs and promotes sin.

Rich
August 31st, 2007 | LINK

Ok lets say that is true about the tranlation issue but what about Leviticus? Leviticus 20:13 – “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable.” That sounds pretty clear to me. Do you really think every verse that deals with this issue could possibly be wrong? “Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion” (Romans 1:26-27).
Do you have any idea of the number of prophecies in the bible that have come true? So far 100%.
It predicted Jesus, hundreds of years before he ever came. Also the details of his life. There are over 900 prophecies on him alone that all came true. The odds of that ever happening are astronomical. My point is this book is trustworthy. It has been proven over and over again. I could sit here and list them all day. Homosexuality is a sexual sin. You just want to stay in the thing that you think makes you happy. If it were to be that way, why would we have been created to fit together with a woman. Even if you don’t believe in God it is not natural. Anyway I didn’t really want to get into a debate, because we will sit here and disagree all day. I really wanted just stick up for my pastor who I know means to help as many people as he can. If you had any idea what this man does for people you would be astonished! He gives and gives and gives! You know how the big joke about church is that they just want your money? Well from what I have seen him give to people, it is just the opposite. He gives away cars, homes, food, advice and counsel and anything else he has.

Rich
August 31st, 2007 | LINK

Pastor Sal can not demand that anyone do anything. That is not his place. He may tell them that he thinks it is wrong, but what they do is up to them.
Like I said we can only tell people what the word says, you can’t force it on anyone. But I have since found out that he will not marry thse people in his church.

Rich
August 31st, 2007 | LINK

Second marriages are not always wrong. If your spouse dies you can remarry. You may divorce and remarry if someone is unfaithful.
On the other issue of saying the word homosexual in the bible. When a translation is made for example the NIV, they translate it into more mdern words that describe what the statement is saying in the original text. If you really want to get into translations you will be in trouble because a friend of mine studies this everyday and knows the Greek and the Hebrew. He gets into the early manuscripts and can read for himself the bible in some of it’s original writings. And even he has said that it is still very clear.

Ken R
September 1st, 2007 | LINK

Ok lets say that is true about the tranlation issue but what about Leviticus? Leviticus 20:13 – “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable.” That sounds pretty clear to me. Do you really think every verse that deals with this issue could possibly be wrong?

Rich, Jesus said, “I have not come to destroy the Law but to fullfill.” Jesus at his moment of death fullfilled the Law. They weren’t Laws but THE LAW. If you broke any one part of the Law you broke the WHOLE Law. Christians are free in Christ and are no longer bound by the Law. If you claim we are still bound by the Law by citing (Lev. 20:13) as a reason to condemn gay people then none of us are FREE in Christ. You can’t pick and choose which part of the LAW we are still bound by. It is either ALL or NONE of it. If you observe the LAW you are bound by it. Simple as that.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion” (Romans 1:26-27).

What Paul was referring to was the worship of created creatures(idolatry) by the Romans. Because of their refusal to acknowledge all the visible wonders of God around them God gave them up to their lusts (sexual cult practices)to which caused them to practice other sins of greed, envy, murder, rebellion towards their parents, etc..(Romans 29-32). The passages were about the worship of created creatures rather than the true God and the results of idolatry practices. It was not about same-sex loving couples.

If read further to Romans 2 it says:

1.You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3.So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4. Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance?

Paul was talking to the Roman Christians that judged other Romans that engaged in such pagan practices. The original manuscripts were not written with verses or chapters so you must read both Romans 1 and 2 together to understand what Paul was talking about. Paul was telling the Roman Christians that they had no excuse to judge others since they themselves used to engage in such idolatry practices. Paul wrote Romans 1 first to set up Romans 2 about judging others. Christians site Romans 1 for condemnation of gay people yet ignore their own condemnation of judging others Paul was referring to in Romans 2.

About divorce and remarriage, the reason I use this as an example is to point out the hypocrisy of many ministers that are quick to condemn gay people for who they are yet they themselves are inconsistent with scripture when it comes to their own actions all the while they claim and preach sola scriptura. They ignore Jesus’ command when it comes to the sinfulness of second or third marriages (some exceptions of course). Same goes for those megachurch pastors that rake in all the money on Sundays by scaring their congregations to give so that the gays won’t get them and their families. Yet a while later they are seen driving fancy cars and live in big houses or mansions.

I just want to leave you with this Rich. I’m not judging you or Pastor Sal Roggio. He sounds like a nice man and probably has a good heart. But please ask him to at least read the testimonies over at http://www.beyondexgay.com He might find a lot of unanswered questions about trying to help gay people become straight. From all that I have read about those individuals that went through ex-gay ministries, they came out of those organizations worse than they went in. Some even suicidal. That, I can attest, is not from the Holy Spirit.

God Bless

Ken R
September 1st, 2007 | LINK

Rich I forgot to mention. We are not gay by choice regardless of what you or your pastor may believe. We simply are living out our lives as God made us. Yet there are those that demand we change no matter what the cost. Even if it means some lives will be lost in the process.

How Christian is that really?

Rich
September 1st, 2007 | LINK

It means you are not bound by the law as far as being condemned by it because Jesus took away the penalty of the law.
If that were true the 10 commandments would not apply. Jesus when he came added a law to love the Lord God with all your mind, soul and strength. We are free from the penalty of sin in Christ.
Plus no one is judging gay people. You make this whole thing to mean what you want it to mean. If God says this is wrong, it is wrong. If unbelievers do what is wrong, we are not to judge them
because they are unbelievers and they don’t have Christ in them. But however if you are a believer and Christ is in you, You have a right to tell a brother what he is doing is wrong. If he does not listen, you take him to the elders of the church, if he still does not listen , he is being defiant and should be expelled from the church and handed over to Satan. Our church does not judge they want to help and give hope for people who are stuggling with addictions. Whether it be drinking, drugs or sexual sins.
If you were in a plane that was going to crash wouldn’t you want someone to tell you that there were parachutes in the plane. If you don’t give people the news about Christ and let them know what they are doing is not right, their blood is on your head.
Did not Jesus tell the woman she had been with 5 men. Many times he told people what was wrong with them. People have to see that they have sin in their lives in order to see they need a saviour. What good is a parachute if the plane isn’t going to crash. It’s just uncomfortable.

And if you are not gay by choice then if a man is into pornography he isn’t in it by choice either? I know people who are slaves to this. Are they born that way, or is it just so hard to break that you figure it must be? No, I tell you this brother, it is a choice whether you except or you don’t Christ can free you from this bondage. Doesn’t it become your God, because your are slaves to sexual orientation? If people were so enthusiastic about Christ, the world would be a different place. We should be fighting to get rights that matter like freedom to pray at school, to stop murdering abortionists. People are being sued for talking about Jesus. Our country is turning in to a communist society before our eyes and this distraction of gay and lesbian stuff is just deterring our eyes to the bigger issues!!!

Ken R
September 1st, 2007 | LINK

And if you are not gay by choice then if a man is into pornography he isn’t in it by choice either? I know people who are slaves to this. Are they born that way, or is it just so hard to break that you figure it must be? No, I tell you this brother, it is a choice whether you except or you don’t Christ can free you from this bondage. Doesn’t it become your God, because your are slaves to sexual orientation? If people were so enthusiastic about Christ, the world would be a different place. We should be fighting to get rights that matter like freedom to pray at school, to stop murdering abortionists. People are being sued for talking about Jesus. Our country is turning in to a communist society before our eyes and this distraction of gay and lesbian stuff is just deterring our eyes to the bigger issues!!!

I for one can vouch that pornography IS a choice. I was caught up into it heavy and deep. Last October, I became a born again and the experience has been amazing! Christ has been working in my life. I fall but I have trusted in Christ all the way to help me overcome pornography since the Holy Spirit has been filling me with the grace necessary to overcome many things I once thought and did. Much has changed with me. Do you know that I am learning to love my enemies? Do you know that if you truly ask God to help you love others that he will give it to you? I have constantly asked with my heart, not just lip service mind you, but with my heart. I wanted him to show me that love above all else is the way we are suppose to lead our lives. And he revealed it to me a few weeks ago! It was amazing! Ask and you shall receive. And not only that if you keep searching you will find what you are looking for. But you want to know a little truth Rich? I’m still gay. No matter what you or anyone says that is still part of my physical make up. Everything else has changed but my sexual orientation has remained fixed since I discovered it.

Let me tell you a little about myself. I met the Lord in my early teens. Not face to face but I was in his presence. I was on my knees and my hands were clapsed together as if in prayer. I was unable to look up. A force kept my head down. Then a voice from above told me he’d give me another chance and that I had to change my ways. Up to that point I dabbled in Black Magic, sexually lusted and had sexual relations with a straight neighbor boy. Anger and revenge filled my heart for the bullying I got in school. I wanted to physically hurt my oppressors. In short, I was a non-believer and hadn’t accepted Christ into my life until 18. That is when I became Catholic. I left the Catholic Church in the late 80’s to discover my sexuality. I was slightly promiscuous. I lusted. I did things I wasn’t supposed to do and in fact hated some of the things I did do. It was like why am I doing these things as I did them. See Rich, the Lord was calling me back then. When I did become truly born-again last October I have not been able to get Christ out of my mind. I look back at my past and just wonder why I did some things that I did. I do hate my sins. I would never go back to the way I was. I was never truly happy until I came back to the Lord. But, again, my sexual orientation has remained fixed. If the Lord chose me long ago and spoke to me, and has been calling me back ever since, and by my transformation last October don’t you think that if being gay was a simple choice like grabbing a bottle of booze would be for an alcoholic and looking at pornography, that I would no longer be gay? I’m not a slave to my sexual orientation no more than you are to your heterosexuality. God has a plan for me. And I pray that I have the Lord’s strength to carry through what I need to do. While at times it is difficult and I suffer, more blessings have been given to me in return.

Amen! Yes, we need to focus on more important matters like justice and freedom for all Americans. But if one group is being denied the same rights that others are so freely enjoying then we are not really a true and free society. We become a government of the elite and not of the people.

I enjoyed talking with you Rich and sharing the most intimate details of my life. I love to tell people of meeting the Lord. It always reaffirms my faith so much.

God Bless

Rich
September 1st, 2007 | LINK

This is my last message. I am very glad to hear what you say about the Lord. I don’t doubt that you are a believer and love God. But I do know this, be open to hear what God says to you in the quiet times. Hear Him speak.
I also know that when you accept the Lord that not everything changes right away. He tends to work on you a little at a time. So just because that has not changed doesn’t mean it won’t. People tell us not to be so closed minded, but it seems the other way around to me. I know people who have been saved for a while, who still smoke, even though you are harming God’s temple. But that does not mean it is right.
Anyway, I wish you well. I will be praying for you, that His will would be done in your life to bring His plan for you to come to fruition. And even if we disagree, we can agree to disagree, and like you said it was nice talking with you.
God bless you too brother!

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