Box Turtle Bulletin
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobby“Now you must raise your children up in a world where that union of man and box turtle is on the same legal footing as man and wife…”
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobbyDecember 28th, 2007
Kay Warren, wife of the pastor and author Rick Warren, has written a new book, Dangerous Surrender, encouraging conservative Christians to join the fight against the spread of HIV and AIDS.
Like many who have spent the last 25 years hearing how AIDS is God’s judgment against gays, I am cautious in endorsing Warren’s efforts. Part of me feels that if it takes a trip to Africa to see dying heterosexuals in order to stir your compassion, then I am inclined to think your “help” comes with too many strings attached.
Mrs. Warren is aware that conservative involvement is met with skepticism. And I believe her words illustrate both an awareness of the problem as well as a practical solution.
Did Jesus ever ask anybody, “How did you get sick?” We get stuck on the “How did you get sick? How did you become infected?” We look with everybody with HIV and assume they did something wrong and that’s why they’re sick. You will not find Jesus asking, “How did you get sick?” He just said, “What can I do? How can I help you?”
First, we need to get God’s heart on how he feels about people who are sick. Second, we need to model our ministries after the way Jesus treated people. Third, we need to come alongside and build relationships with people that says it doesn’t really matter to me whether you put yourself at risk or you didn’t put yourself at risk. The point is I’m going to care for you. My response is going to be the same.
Warren has also come up with a practical program for reducing or eliminating the spread of the virus:
If you want to S.L.O.W. down the spread of HIV:
S Support the correct use of condoms every sexual encounter.
L Limit the number of partners, because studies have also shown that the greatest risk is in multiple partners.
O This is very controversial. Offer needle exchange. Studies have shown that in some places clean needles can slow down the transmission of HIV.
W Wait for sexual debut. Studies have shown that the younger a person is at their his or her sexual encounter, the more likely it is that he or she will be infected with HIV. So if you can encourage people to wait until they’re older, eighteen, nineteen, twenty, before they have their first sexual encounter you can slow down the spread of HIV.I have an even higher goal: I don’t want to just manage HIV. My goal is to end HIV. I want the world to be rid of this evil virus.
So to STOP it requires a different strategy.
S Save sex for marriage.
T Teach men and boys to respect and honor women and girls. If men continue to treat women with such disrespect, HIV will be on our planet for a long time to come. So there’s a discipleship element.
O Offer treatment through churches. We think that those things that I told you about, those six things that churches can do, when the church is involved, it can stop the spread of AIDS.
P Partner with one person for life.
While the SLOW approach is pragmatic and relies on tested methods, I find much in the STOP half of this that smacks of heterosexism. Her program is geared solely to address heterosexual contraction of HIV and ignores the existance of gay men and women.
It is of no value whatsoever to tell a young gay man that he is to wait for marriage while simultaneously railing at him that allowing him to marry would destroy the foundations of society. And lessons on how to respect women are not going to give him tools on how to avoid infection.
Yet as the conservative church has been so very reluctant for so very long to provide the slightest care for those with HIV or AIDS, I welcome even this exclusionary approach. I am hopeful that Kay Warren’s STOP program is simply ignorant of the realities of same-sex attraction and are not a continuation of the church’s long history of barring its door to those who find themselves gay.
Perhaps in her new book she better lays out her beliefs. Until then I’ll gladly give her the benefit of the doubt and welcome the vast resources that conservative Christianity can bring to those suffering.
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Samantha Davis
December 28th, 2007
I actually don’t think that the “save it for marriage.” Message excludes gay people. I think for gay people it just means “save it till you find your life parter.”
In fact, I think it’s rather demeaning to gay people to say that gay people are somehow unable to practice an”abstinence only” program. Does this mean that gay people are somehow unable to form lifetime partnerships?
I understand what you’re trying to say, it’s just that I had to scratch that itch!
Zeke
December 28th, 2007
I also find her sexist and misandristic assertion that AIDS is caused by men and boys disrespecting women and girls.
What the hell is that all about?
She’s one of the clueless people who believe that men are always the sexual aggressors; that women aren’t sexual and never instigate sexual behavior and that any sex between a man and a woman outside of marriage is a sexual assault by a man upon a woman.
Is this, the 12th century?
That kind of thinking (innocent woman victim vs. evil male villain) drives me nuts!
Zeke
December 28th, 2007
My first sentence above should have read:
I also find her sexist and misandristic assertion that AIDS is caused by men and boys disrespecting women and girls to be ignorant, based in gender stereotypes and insulting.
Timothy Kincaid
December 29th, 2007
Samantha,
I agree we can modify her comments to fit our community. I just thought it a bit odd to talk about AIDS in a manner that ignores the existance of gay folks.
It could be that Warren only thinks of AIDS in terms of Africa where it is predominantly heterosexual – though she does talk about the churches providing services to their communities. Or maybe she’s recognizing that even in the US the face of AIDS is changing.
Zeke,
On this one I think I do know the answer.
One part of the big problem with AIDS in Africa is the attitudes that certian cultures have about men and women. A wife does not have the right to refuse sex or even demand that her husband wear a condom if he’s infected.
Sadly, yes. In some areas of that continent we are still in the 12th century.
But again it makes me think that her sympathies are less about those around her that are ill and more for “those poor people in Africa”. Even so, if we can get the conservative churches to spend some time, effort, and bucks on the African AIDS pandemic, then that is welcome.
I really do need to read her book so I can better understand where she’s coming form.
Emily K
December 29th, 2007
Is AIDS really still a “gay issue???” Why does this persist? Is it just a “gay issue” in America, because Male-Male sexual habits are more likely to spread a disease? Is it true that it’s only the “down-low” (closeted, cheating gay men) in the African-American community that infect married heterosexual women with HIV? (I’ve heard married heterosexual women are the ones who are most affected in the US, but it seems gays are the root of that too.) Is it really still a “gay issue” here? This disturbs me, and as a queer woman, is difficult for me to relate to, since HIV transmission statistically is not NEARLY what it is for my demographic than for heteros and gay men.
Please, somebody educate me. This is very frustrating, especially when politicians claim to be “pro gay” because they support AIDS research; etc.
Gregory
December 29th, 2007
I think she is making a much needed step in the right direction. Her voice is desperately needed in the battle against AIDs. Does it matter if it took a trip to Africa to see it? I don’t really think so. The point is that she sees the problem, and that is great. I thought she was rather progressive with both her SLOW and STOP programs. On the whole issue of respect, I think she WAS focusing on the problem in Africa (where it is the worst in the world), but I think it is actually a problem in America too. Now, does this mean that women can’t be responsible either, absolutely not, and that is, I believe, why she has the other points.
I am very thankful that she is speaking out for all who are infected. It is a much needed voice.
Timothy Kincaid
December 29th, 2007
Emily K,
In the US and Europe, AIDS is still largely a gay disease. Though the majority of new contractions of HIV seems to be shifting out of the gay community, it is still disproportionately impacting gay men.
AIDS seems to have moved into the black community to a great extent. I don’t know how much of that is due to “the down low” or how much is due to other social factors (disproportionate incarceration, a lack of available men, economic pressures, drug culture, pimp culture, racism, institutionalized homophobia – especially in the black church, poorly targeted information campaigns, assumptions about AIDS being a white gay disease, circumcision rates, etc.). Whatever the reasons, that’s where it’s going and I certainly hope that black churches are listening when Kay Warren is talking.
Many politicians claim pro-gay credentials for supportive positions on AIDS because many of those who oppose funding or help did so because it impacted gay people first. In other words, because they did not fall victim to anti-gay arguments, they are viewed as not necessarily hostile to gay people. Though some (Bill Frist, for example) were supportive on HIV issues solely out of health concerns, most of those who led the charge on this issue did so because of being supporters of issues impacting gay people. So I’m perfectly willing to let the early supporters of HIV/AIDS issues be called “pro-gay”.
Emily K
December 29th, 2007
Timothy,
WHY is it a “gay disease?” because gay men are so promiscuous and careless with their habits?
Timothy Kincaid
December 29th, 2007
Emily K,
I’m trying not to see your comment as a deliberate insult or provocation. But I will answer your words:
It is considered a “gay disease” because in the beginning – and even today – it disproportionately impacted gay men. There are a number of reasons why this hit the gay community first in the US.
The most obvious reason is that some methods of transmission are more effective than others, and for circumcized men the greatest risk is through receptive anal sex. Because most Americans are circumcized, and because that sex practice is predominantly homosexual, viola: the place the virus spread was in gay men.
I lived in a fraternity house in the 80’s. Let me assure you that if HIV was spread solely through promiscuity or careless habits, it would have been a straight disease.
a. mcewen
December 29th, 2007
i think that there are other factors as to why AIDS hit the gay community with such an impact in the beginning.
History teaches us that calamities (i.e famines, the Black Plague) did not occur just because of one factor.
I tend to think that the isolation and homophobia that society gave gay men before Stonewall and the so-called sexual revolution of the 1970s played an impact as to the behavior of some in our community in sexual matters.
Some gay men may have mistaked sexual irresponsibility with freedom and the ability to self determine our lives.
I think that if the gay community had time to mature to the level we are at now before the AIDS crisis, it would not have hit us with such a huge impact.
Emily K
December 29th, 2007
“Some gay men may have mistaked sexual irresponsibility with freedom and the ability to self determine our lives.”
I couldn’t agree with you more. That certainly seemed to be the case with the “Disco Days” of the late ’70s.
As for Tim’s medical explanation, that clears things up some.
Suricou Raven
December 30th, 2007
Churches would have an extremally difficult time promoting any solution other than abstinance-until-marriage, because according to their religion all sexual activity outside of marriage is inherently an immoral and dangerous act – no matter how ‘safe’ its made. Even those who admit that abstinance doesn’t work and that safe-sex is the only realistic way to reduce the spread of disease will still be unable to endorse what they see as the promotion of evil.
Smithy
April 19th, 2008
Suricou Raven,
There is no such thing as ‘safe sex’. Studies upon studies show that with the increase of ‘safe sex programmes’, STD’s and HIV increases. Condoms DO NOT off full protection.
Abstinence is the only effective way to prevent the spread of HIV, and not using condoms which do not protect from the full range of STD’s today.
Whether people choose to adhere to abstinence is their choice, but I wish such people would take responsbility for themselves if they find themselves with an STD or HIV- afterall people choose to act on their attraction, whether they be homosexual or heterosexual.
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