88 responses

  1. Arianna
    October 1, 2008

    I’m surprised at those who state that if the LDS church or prophet speaks, members do as they say. Period. I could introduce you to a few hundred LDS folks that I personally know, myself included, who consider all factors when making decisions, which does, of course,include the statements of church leaders.

    One thing that most people are not mentioning is that the LDS church strongly encourages its members to seek guidance directly from the Lord through prayer when they make major decisions. Doesn’t sound to me like a church that wants to dictate what its members do.

    The church also teaches that we are to follow the “law of the land”, and the law of the United States claims that “all men are created equal”. It is for this reason that I, and many other Christians I know (LDS and otherwise), have decided after prayerful consideration that limiting marriage to only heterosexual couples is a violation of our federal Constitution.

    I wish people would stop trying to lay a blanket accusation against an entire group of people. It does nothing to further fair discussion and education of the issue.

  2. Timothy Kincaid
    October 1, 2008

    Arianna,

    Thank you for your prayerful stand for equality. I know that you are not alone in taking this position, even among those of your denomination.

    However, I’m sure you will agree that the LDS leadership has been particularly vehement in their efforts to engage Mormons in this proposition. While it’s not fair to say that ALL Mormons are following their edicts, it would also be unfair to suggest that you are in the majority. Wouldn’t you agree?

    Again, thank you for your support. It means a lot.

  3. Lorrianne Owens
    October 1, 2008

    It is ridiculous that I have to speak up regarding gay marriages, as it is clearly a disgusting immoral transgression. The fact that gay marriage is being widely publicized as acceptable and common place, is offensive and completely disgusting to anyone with a basic moral sense. I have a son that just turned one. Sometimes, I sit and think of the world that he will see and learn to know in a few years. I think of him being confronted with gay relationships and marriages as normal and acceptable by way of the television, school, books, movies, etc. I am filled with great rage and even sadness. Truthfully, I have had enough! Enough of sitting quietly while gay rights protesters stuff acceptance and tolerance down my throat. Enough with knowing that my children will have to live in this world being familiar with homosexuality and being forced to accept it! Why should my children have to be corrupted because individuals wish to publicize and legalize their gross and immoral relationships? When does the extent of moral corruption stop? In a few more years a dog and man can be legally married or maybe a 50 year old man to a 4 year old girl. Then maybe a woman and tree could be legally married. What is morally wrong is wrong–no matter what popular opinion might be at that particular time. I do not dislike gay individuals as people but I am greatly opposed to them making me and my children accept and legalize their immoral way of life.

  4. Timothy Kincaid
    October 2, 2008

    Lorianne,

    Thank you.

    Sometimes when you live in a metropolitan area around civil and polite people, it can be easy to forget just how hateful, spiteful, arrogant and self-satisfied folks can be. But then here you came to remind us that there are those who find acceptance and tolerance to be objectionable and who rage against the happiness of their neighbor.

  5. Rob
    October 2, 2008

    Lorraine,

    What kind of world will your son experience? He will experience a world where he discovers that not everyone is as spiteful, and raging as you. He will discover a world where people are different in many ways; the color of their eyes, the color of their skin, the size of their bodies, that different people love different people, and that being different from his mom isn’t a bad thing. Perhaps, if we are diligent and maybe just a little bit lucky, he’ll experience a world where people are who they are, without fear, without hate. Perhaps he’ll learn to look at a person as a human being before anything else, and that every person is and should be valued.

    Perhaps he’ll learn how to move beyond your anger. Perhaps he’ll learn to create his own conclusion about how people should be treated. Perhaps he’ll actually embrace that which is enshrined in the constitution, that “all men (no sexism intended) are created equal”.

    Please have a calmer day.

  6. Jason D
    October 2, 2008

    You seriously want to take the moral high ground with a statement like this?
    “In a few more years a dog and man can be legally married or maybe a 50 year old man to a 4 year old girl. Then maybe a woman and tree could be legally married.”
    Lorraine, you must have pictures! You must have pictures to share of this protest rally in which a tree, a dog, and 4-year old were all gathered with signs indicating they want to marry adult humans. If you don’t have those pictures, then a letter from the Tree, Dog, and 4-year Old Marriage To Adult Humans Action Committee will suffice. We’ll have to find someone who can read horse language or speaks tree to translate, however.
    If you really think these are morally equivalent to two adult men or two adult women who love and care for each other, if you really don’t see any difference whatsoever — your moral compass is broken, and you have no business lecturing me or anyone else on what is morally right and wrong.
    You think two consenting adults enjoying each other is the same as a woman and a tree? And you have the nerve to call ME disgusting? You have the nerve to call anyone else immoral? Lady you have no idea what disgusting is if you think these things.
    “What is morally wrong is wrong–no matter what popular opinion might be at that particular time.”
    Thank you for saying this. Discrimination is wrong, no matter what popular opinion is, even if that popular opinion says that there’s something wrong with someone who’s fat, female, short, in a wheelchair, black, mexican or gay. You did get one thing right in your rant, wrong is wrong.
    “I do not dislike gay individuals as people but I am greatly opposed to them making me and my children accept and legalize their immoral way of life.”
    I think I speak for most gays when I say I DON’T CARE if you have a problem with me as an individual. I also think your half-assed attempt at tolerance, is useless and self-serving.
    You know what, Lorrianne, you don’t have to accept us. The government and it’s laws, however, do. Because there is nothing lost by legalizing gay marriage. Nothing. No freedom is trampled, no one is hurt — except those who find gays gross and “immoral”, but frankly, the government is not in charge of morality, each individual gets to decide that for themselves. As long as being gay doesn’t hurt people, and it doesn’t, the government has no business legislating against it. You have every right to disagree, but you do NOT have the right to tell other people how to live their lives. If we get to vote on my morality, we’re voting on yours next, and I don’t think you’ll like that at all.

  7. Drackolus O’Dell
    October 8, 2008

    I must say that who donates what doesn’t mean anything. What matters is that it’s not right to tell people who they can love, what their life should be like. I’m not Mormon, or even Christian for that matter. I don’t want to be told to live like one. This is America. This is not a Christian country, a Jewish country, a Hindu, a Muslim, or a Buddhist country. This is a people country. And gays are people, too. I am absolutely disgusted by the nerve of people who think that they are the absolute dictator of who is right or wrong. Proposition 102 is hate, and voting yes on it is the equivalent of hating gays. I know gays who are practically saints. What right is it of people to tell them that they aren’t?
    Satan is the one who said that free will is a bad idea.
    Maybe people should learn how to think correctly before they try to tell other people how to think.

    Oh, the irony of it all.

  8. Eddie89
    October 8, 2008
  9. Brian
    October 8, 2008

    Are you serious? This proposition only defines the concept of marriage as between a man and a woman. The Mormons only want to prevent getting sued and taken over by the government for believing it. Both Presidential candidates currently support this. Don’t hate on Mormons.

  10. will
    October 8, 2008

    Unfortunately some moral people like Lorraine can come across the wrong way. The main divide here is that Christians (I am one), believe that there is one set up truths that will make someone happy. If you don’t believe there is one set of truths that can be applied to people then you are just proclaiming that you do not believe in god. God has to be a rational being that understands just like we do but at a higher level, someone that can be understood by us and us by him. Christians believe that homosexual relationships will NOT make someone happy. Christians should approach this issue with humility and love for ALL as sons and daughters of god and unfortunately they all don’t. But I, as a Christian, know that no person can find true joy and happiness unless it’s through the institution of marriage as given to us by God. By a Man and a Woman.

    I’m tempted to think as the world thinks, but when I really think about God I know that there has to be something that is True, and that these truths have to be universally true. They have to be able to be applied to everyone.

    Homosexuality is a sin, it is a temptation given to us by the master of deception. Just like sometimes we to be prideful, or justify any sin. It is what it is, and misery loves company.

  11. cowboy
    October 8, 2008

    They’re worried about getting sued? The Mormons? Oh get serious, Brian. The LDS Church has a bevy of lawyers at their beck and call and they have the resources to keep any sort of lawsuit tied up in the courts until the Second Coming.

    Color it any way you want, but the Proposition 8 is anti-gay. Be fair in at least admitting that. Then we can debate the merits of gay marriage but don’t insult me by saying this is not discriminating gays and don’t pretend you’re the victim. The victim here is equality.

  12. Stefano A
    October 8, 2008

    Funny you conclude your comment by referring to “prideful”… considering the unabashed self-serving sophistry and unfounded arrogance of your comment.

  13. Kevin
    October 9, 2008

    Will,

    First, let me stress that there are 38,000 denominations of Christianity so, please, take into consideration that the anti-gay wing of the Christian community only represents themselves and not many other denominations or individual churches who bless same-sex unions and hold that no ones sin is worse than another.

    Second, the modern concept of homosexuality just wasn’t an issue to the patriarchs of the Hebrew Bible nor to Jesus himself (although Jesus had PLENTY to say about heterosexual relationships). Much of what we hear about gays in the New Testament is written by Paul – who, by the way, never met the historical Jesus – and it is safe to say that even the words attributed to Paul (some having been added centuries later by scribes) are translated differently and do not necessarily condemn gay people.

    All scripture is open to interpretation, keeping in mind that we have none of the original manuscripts and that every biblical scholar worth his/her degree agrees that throughout the centuries text had been copied wrong or re-written to jive with the prejudices of the day (for instance, the misogyny attributed to Paul in 1 & 2 Timothy).

    The truth on the ground is that humans will use divine argument to support whatever they wish, just like Pat Robertson saying Hurricane Katrina was God’s punishment.

    I would ask that if you have a beef with queer folk, you couch it in secular logic and not biblical, because we can argue and pick quotes til the cows come home and neither of us will be satisfied.

    By the way, Jesus and his 12 never married – so what does that say about your “no person can find true joy and happiness unless it’s through the institution of marriage as given to us by God?”

  14. Kyle
    October 9, 2008

    VOTE NO! If this is their decision and it makes them happy, then so be it

  15. will
    October 9, 2008

    Kevin,

    Regardless of the number of christian institutions or churches there really can only be one true doctrine. I know it seems far-fetched to believe that of 28,000 churches only one can be true but that’s how it is.

    There is one correct set of principles which, if lived by, will make someone happy. There can only be one church that could possibly hold all the of the truths, and god leads that church. There are many, many things we wouldn’t know by reading the bible and historical accounts of the early christian church so there is no point in arguing about whether or not the early apostles were married or not.

    Stefano, I’m sorry I came across as arrogant… I’m really not arrogant about this issue. I am just declaring the truth as God has told us and I understand that we are all Gods children, all sinful by nature, but all with the ability to call upon god to make us more like him. The message here is that wickedness never was happiness. The message is very clear, and can be seen as arrogant because it is very to the point. No person will never find true happiness in sin, whether it’s homosexuality, infidelity, or anything else.

    I may come across as over-confident, or arrogant as was mentioned above. But it’s because I have been communicated to, by God, in such a way that I know that these principles I’m conveying are True. And my love for all God’s children compels me to share this message so that ALL may taste of God’s love just as I have.

  16. Stefano A
    October 9, 2008

    Stefano, I’m sorry I came across as arrogant… I’m really not arrogant about this issue. I am just declaring the truth as God has told us

    This apology is not worth the bandwidth used to post the comment and is in it’s entirety worthless and meaningless.

    Certainly you are arrogant, and that arrogance is clear for all to see in your words.

    It is the height of conceit to believe that you and you alone know know the mind of God. It is the height of conceit to contest that out of all the religions in the world, and out of even all the various Christian denominations and sects only you (or your) denomination can speak for God.

    I certainly support your right to guide your own life by your own beliefs, but that in now way absolves you of such conceit.

  17. Kevin
    October 9, 2008

    Will,

    I tepidly I agree with your point of view: if you believe your way is the one true way, you’re right…it’s the one true way for you. If you want to go even further and say that your one true way is the only way then, if your only concern is yourself, I will afford you that privilege without invoking any condemnations of ignorance, selfishness, or bigotry.

    I hope you could afford, however, that if someone else claims to be as right as you, you would extend that right of claim to them also – but then this would be a personal paradox for you, wouldn’t it?

    I certainly wouldn’t wish to convert anyone to my beliefs simply on the basis of me saying “I’m right and you’re wrong, and even more, God has told me thus”.

    As someone who takes the principles of the US Constitution very seriously, I’m thankful our Founding Fathers (notably Thomas Jefferson) foresaw this dilemma and no doubt were surrounded by warring factions of the self-righteous. That’s why we forbid the interference of those, like you, who are always “right” into the personal lives of us who are always “wrong”.

  18. Ken R
    October 9, 2008

    One thing I have noticed about conservative Christians is that there is this obsessive need to be 100% right about God’s will. Nothing less. If you have the wrong belief in their minds, even slightly, you are not right with God and doomed to the everlasting fires of Hell. With all the different interpretations of Scripture and doctrines out there a person trying to figure out the whole TRUTH about God would no doubt make them eventually go insane. Worrying about whether you have it right at all times doesn’t really make much sense to me. This could be part of the reason why many people are leaving the evangelical/fundamentalists churches.

  19. will
    October 9, 2008

    Stefano,

    It seems are disagreement comes from the fact that we have differing views on what Truth is.

    One thing can’t be true for one person, and false for another. We’re talking about objective, concrete realities here.

    Is there a God or isn’t there? There isn’t more than one answer, there either is or there isn’t. If there is a God then he would be the God of us all.

    Just like governing bodies and institutions alike have rules and regulations and have order, why wouldn’t God?

    Now the ultimate questions I always have when I disagree with people on the basis of God is… if there is a God then there must be one, universal way, in which each of us could know for ourselves if this God exists.

    How do you know that homosexuality is right? Well I can tell you how I know that homosexuality is wrong and I can honestly tell you that I found out in a way that any single person can find out, no matter their background or upbringing. I lived my life with faith in God, praying that he would let me know if he was real and he revealed himself to me. That’s why I know that Homosexuality is a sin, that won’t make any human being truly happy.

    What I usually hear from others is a copout, people generally believe what they want to believe usually to justify some way of life that they deep down know that isn’t in right.

    So tell me, how do you (Stefano, Kevin, etc..) know that you are right? And how can I find out?

    And about the notion that it is arrogant to believe that one set of truths is correct… I don’t understand how that could be considered arrogant, I just don’t understand that. Is anyone that believes they’ve received the truth automatically an arrogant know-it-all?? If that was true then we might as well all deny God and any notion of truth existing.

  20. Kevin
    October 9, 2008

    Ken,

    Yeah, I’ve “noticed” (to put it mildly) the same thing. The other thing I’ve noticed is that evangelicals/fundamentalists almost NEVER participate in ecumenical (between denomination) activity when it’s matters of salvation, forgiveness, justification, and love. Where they immediately click up is on issues of whom to persecute and control.

    I call it the Ecumenicalism of Evil.

    :)

  21. Kevin
    October 9, 2008

    Will,

    Is it possible that God revealing himself to you wasn’t a sign of his disapproval with you being gay, but rather a confirmation that he loves you irregardless?

    Perhaps it is wrong to assume the presence of God in our lives validates our human prejudices simply because, even as sinners, we continue to maintain our connection to God.

    God doesn’t demand that we be right all of the time – that’s what forgiveness is for. Rather, he asks us to have faith and in the process of having faith, love God, love God’s creation, and love each other.

    I’m sorry that you come from a faith tradition that has told you that God couldn’t love you because of the way he made you, but like I said – there are many faith traditions who accept you as God accepts you.

  22. Timothy Kincaid
    October 9, 2008

    I may come across as over-confident, or arrogant as was mentioned above. But it’s because I have been communicated to, by God, in such a way that I know that these principles I’m conveying are True.

    will,

    You don’t really come off as arrogant so much as naive, deluded, or mentally ill.

    History suggest that those who claim that God has revealed to them and them alone all of His secrets can often end up serving poisoned Kool-Aid in Guyana or firebombed in Waco.

    You would do well to consider that God speaks to others and He may not tell them the same that you think He has told you. Considering that possibility may steer you away from a life of peculiar certainty and delusions.

  23. rusty
    October 9, 2008

    and as a good point that comes to mind
    “people tell me to ignore the voices in my head, but sometimes they have really good ideas” or

    “the voices in my head tell me your evil”

    but hey, let’s not be here just to judge. I think that one was supposed to be left to the BIG GUY, unless St Peter asks you when you stand at the gates
    ‘to come back another time.’

  24. will
    October 9, 2008

    Lol, you guys are funny, and I’m not sure what you mean by:

    “I’m sorry that you come from a faith tradition that has told you that God couldn’t love you because of the way he made you.”

    Kevin, I’m sure I’ve been tempted just as much as the next guy to deviate from the natural way and to look after men sexually but luckily I’ve been able to fully avoid the sin of homosexuality. That’s not to say I haven’t sinned in other ways.

    People aren’t made homosexual jut like people aren’t made to fornicate, or be promiscuous heterosexually, it’s our choice. Take these words into account, if you follow them you’ll find more joy in your lives.

    Peace

  25. Stefano A
    October 9, 2008

    It seems are disagreement comes from the fact that we have differing views on what Truth is.

    One thing can’t be true for one person, and false for another. We’re talking about objective, concrete realities here.

    IF, and this is a huge “if”, you were talking about objective and natural law I might agree with you on the point of their being objective truths.

    HoweverYou are indeed not talking about objective but subjective truths and normative law.

    In other words, you are bordering on the rantings of religious fanaticism.

  26. Timothy Kincaid
    October 9, 2008

    will,

    The next guy isn’t temped to “deviate from the natural way”. Just as gay people are attracted to the same sex, heterosexuals are attracted to the opposite sex.

    How odd that you would not know this.

    And if you come here telling people that orientation is “our choice”, you’re only going to get laughed at. You’re talking to folks who know better from experience.

    Orientation is determined at a very very young age in most cases (whether one is “born gay” or becomes gay at some point before puberty is probably moot). There was no conscious choice in the matter – this is something that even anti-gay ex-gay groups will acknowledge.

    And also, just so you know. Most of us are pretty joyful here. And happy. And full of peace.

    Well, we are until others turn up trying to make our lives more difficult through their intrusive amendments.

  27. Emily K
    October 9, 2008

    “Kevin, I’m sure I’ve been tempted just as much as the next guy to deviate from the natural way and to look after men sexually but luckily I’ve been able to fully avoid the sin of homosexuality.”

    OOOH, THAT’S why will is here. yet another “not gay, just tempted” straight guy visiting a very popular very prominent gay blog.

    Actually will, according to the Scriptures, (I’m Jewish,) when read with an open heart and all literalness, I have the Truth and you are guilty of the gravest sin of idolatry. And since you twist the Holy Words of the Prophets to suit your 2,000 year old justification of idol worship, you are the one twisting the REAL “Truth.” See http://www.jewsforjudaism.org if you are confused by what I’m saying.

    Isn’t it wonderful that these “straight but tempted” Christians take the time to “minister” to us “fallen” homoSEXuals?

    Oh, and FYI, nothing in the Holiness Code forbids lesbian sexual relations. So I guess I’m totally clean!

  28. Eddie89
    October 9, 2008

    Emily K – I’m sure that the reason there are no implicit Holiness Codes against lesbian relations is because all those “straight” men of old were turned on by watching two women.

    Fast forward two thousand years later and straight men haven’t changed all that much.


    California – Vote “NO” on Prop. 8!
    Arizona – Vote “NO” on Prop. 102! AGAIN!
    Florida – Vote “NO” on Amendment 2!

  29. Emily K
    October 9, 2008

    Actually Eddie, the more likely reason is because men were actually having sex with more than one woman at once. Polygamy, remember? And since having sex with more than one woman at a time put all sorts of grey areas into two women being sexually involved, it was just less complicated not to say anything about it.

    Plus, men are SO uptight about two guys having sex. I mean, WTF?? get over it already.

  30. James
    October 10, 2008

    Staying up late with insomnia somehow brought me to this website. I guess I take a unique position on this issue, considering that I am both gay and LDS, an active one at that lol. I can say first and foremost that “choosing” to be gay is the biggest lie I’ve ever heard, and anyone who says so clearly has not had a deep conversation with a homosexual. I have yet to meet a gay who has chosen to be gay. It was never just a “fleeting temptation.” I can tell you that it is extremely confusing growing up knowing that the feelings you have are not part of the “norm” of what’s expected of you. I recently came out to my family and while there was some initial tension, I was surprised by their eventual change of heart. Why am I gay? Really I can’t answer that. All I know is what I feel. Until I went on a mission (haha yes I went) I was very much the judgemental prick. I snubbed those who believed differently than I did and who lived alternative lifestyles. Being a missionary opened my eyes to a completely different world. Usually I find the opposite occurs, where one becomes more religiously zealous when they come home. I learned that so much good comes from so many different and unexpected places. I became close friends with a catholic priest, a buddhist lama, a gay man dying of AIDS, a transexual couple, and even a stripper lol. I learned so much from everyone I met, and learned how wrong it was of me to ever judge, scoff, or discriminate anybody. At the same time I experienced discrimination first hand as well. I grew up in a predominately LDS community and served my mission where there were not many. I was refused service at restaurants, yelled and cursed at from passing cars, had guns pulled on me, and was side swiped by a car, forcing my bike off a ledge and ending up breaking my ankle. Now, go figure, I’m discriminated against for being gay. Hate unfortunately is everywhere, and it’s aimed at all different kinds of groups. Now that you have some sort of an idea of where I’m coming from, I can address the proposition at hand. Politically I would not consider myself very involved. Working two jobs and school full-time takes up my life. But when I talk to my friends, who are gay, and see how they struggle constantly when faced by endless attempts by the zealous religious right to limit their freedoms, while at the same time I’m sitting in church on Sunday hearing how I should be voting “yes” on proposition 102, I’m forced to think politically. I am thankful for my upbringing and for the values and teachings of the LDS church. I like going to church and I like being around my LDS friends as well. Many would not agree with that and that’s fine by me, just as many would not agree with being gay, and that’s fine by me. I’m faced with a very strange dichotomy. Regardless, I have prayed and I’ve pondered over the issue, and I believe that it is wrong to place limitations on a group of people because of their sexual orientation. Why can’t I have the same freedoms as everyone else? Plus, I’ve taken into consideration the shady way in which the proposition was even put on the ballot. I do not believe that if the proposition does not pass that it will demean or attack the sanctity of marriage. At the same time, I do not expect all religious groups to share my views. When I find a man that I want to spend the rest of my life with, I’m not going to prance over to the nearest LDS temple and demand a marriage. I respect my religion’s beliefs and would in no way wish to force them to do something that goes against their doctrine. I just wish people will stop pointing fingers at each other and to really delve into what this proposition means. Essentially, it is a blatant attack against the LGBT community, fueling anti-gay sentiments. In my life I have found myself on both sides of the spectrum. I am a much happier person when I accept the people around me for who they are, regardless of their beliefs, race, ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation. I love my gay friends just as much as I do my LDS friends, even when their beliefs and lifestyles differ so drastically. Myself? I’m somewhere in the middle. But on this particular issue I encourage people to vote No on Proposition 102. Please do not continue to fuel hate.

    Cheers,

    James

  31. Kevin
    October 10, 2008

    James,

    Thank you, thank you, thank you! for the very sincere and heartful message.

    My partner’s cousin is gay and grew up in a very Mormon environment in Oregon. Unfortunately, he never could reconcile being Mormon and being gay so he left the Church. It’s a very sore spot for him to this day.

    It’s unfortunate that the Mormon church spends its time hurting their own congregation, and doubly unfortunate that they seek to do it to non-Mormons.

    However, from what little I know of the Mormon faith, there has been a split in the church over issues of sexuality and marriage before. At one point, the non-polygamist wing of the Mormon church (which has come to predominate) was considered the “liberal” wing, while the fundamentalists broke off and continue to practice Mormonism they way they consider “traditional”.

    Frankly, I don’t see what’s so wrong with the liberal Mormon congregation to splitting from the anti-gay wing and forming their own denomination, as it has done in the past.

    I mean, isn’t it better to seek inclusion and acceptance of gay Mormons rather than have them leave the Church?

    Yeah, I know: rhetorical question.

  32. Scout
    October 22, 2008

    What I find amusing/amazing is that we can already “get married” in church. There are many who will have us: Unitarian, Unity, UCC, to name a few. The fact that the state does not then recognize these holy unions is ironic, considering that is the basis for an amendment in the first place… that of mixing church and state.

    Know what? I think all “marriage” should be civil union, basically a contract between two consenting adults. And THEN if the couple chooses to sanctify their union in a religious way they are free to take their request to any church who wants to marry them.

    This isn’t, and has never been about gays wanting to force Mormon ministers or Catholic priests or any other unwilling cleric to marry them, and anyone who claims that is mendacious or willfully ignorant or both.

  33. SM
    November 7, 2008

    You seem to forget that this initiative was passed by the VOTERS of CA, the vast majority of whom are NOT Mormons. Blaming (or crediting) the LDS for the passage of this is short-sighted, and misguided, and frankly – hateful. Where’s the display of the ‘glorious’ CA tolerance?

  34. Timothy Kincaid
    November 7, 2008

    SM,

    Perhaps you are not following closely, but this thread is about Proposition 102 which was in Arizona.

  35. Louie
    November 7, 2008

    SM, the majority of voters in AZ passed 102. The majority of FUNDING for “yes on 102″ came from Mormons. That is a fact.

    Invalidate Prop. 8!
    Prop 8 Call to action: Ask IRS to revoke Mormon’s 501(c)3

  36. AZ KID
    May 3, 2010

    I thought it was illegal for Churches to do this? I am not Mormon. My Church frowns about direct involvement. Clergy will be disciplined if they voice opinion on local political matters. Someone answer this question please.

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