Catholic Group Releases Completely Bogus “Poll”

Timothy Kincaid

October 21st, 2008

A press release from the Knights of Columbus, makes the following dramatic claim.

A new poll of California voters shows Proposition 8, a proposed constitutional amendment that would reserve marriage for opposite-sex couples, has a 9 percentage point lead among likely voters, 52% to 43%. The poll was conducted for the Knights of Columbus by the Marist College Institute of Public Opinion between September 28 and October 5, 2008.

That would certainly be of concern… if it were even remotely true.

There are two types of polls, those that seek to obtain information about the views and attitudes of those surveyed, and those that seek to provide a false sense of authority to a questionable claim.

If I were seeking to know whether Joe’s Ice Cream or Suzy’s Ice Cream was a preferred brand, I might do a poll that asked participants a straight-forward question that revealed brand preference. “Which Ice Cream brand do you prefer, Joe’s or Suzy’s?”

But if I trying to get people to buy Joe’s Ice Cream, I might run a poll asking, “If you knew that Suzy’s Ice Cream was made in filthy and unsanitary conditions and that the profits go to support terrorism, which brand would you buy, Joe’s or Suzy’s”.

To understand this new “poll” from the Knights (PDF), you have to know a bit about the players

The Knights of Columbus are a Catholic fraternal order. Some of what they do benefits various charities and other efforts seek to impose their Catholic faith on the laws that impact their non-Catholic neighbors. The Knights of Columbus have given over $1,285,000 to the Yes on 8 Campaign.

The Marist College Institute for Public Opinion is a survey research center at Marist College, “a non-sectarian college that privileges its Catholic heritage in all areas of university life.” Marist is a conservative college.

I have found no indication that the Marist Poll is generally fraudulent of disreputable. But even the most casual of observers can see pretty quickly that this effort for the Knights of Columbus is nothing more that a smoke screen created to give substance to a blatantly untruthful press release.

The first indication that there may be shenanigans is in the chief question on the poll. Reputable polls will ask questions that are likely to elicit a response that will correlate to what will happen when the voter enters the booth. Not in this case.

California voters will be asked to vote yes or no on the following:

8. ELIMINATES RIGHT OF SAME-SEX COUPLES TO MARRY. INITIATIVE CONSTITIONAL AMENDMENT. Changes California Constitution to eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry. Provides that only marriage between a man and woman is valid or recognized in California. Fiscal Impact: Over the next few years, potential revenue loss, mainly sales taxes, totaling in the several tens of millions of dollars, to state and local governments. In the long run, likely little fiscal impact on state and local governments.

One would expect, then, for a poll seeking voter intentions to ask a question that reasonable approximates the ballot question. It should reference same-sex couples and discuss eliminating rights. Marist asked the following:

Proposition 8 is the “Limit on Marriage Constitutional Amendment.” It amends the California constitution to say that only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California. If the election were being held today, would you vote yes or no on Proposition 8?

That’s not the same question. The name given by Marist may fit well with their religious agenda, but it isn’t on the ballot. And no where in Marist’s question was any indication that same-sex couples would have their rights eliminated.

Thereafter the poll gets more interesting. Their other questions fall under what is called “push polling“. It’s where a “pollster” is phrasing their statement in the form of a question but the objective is to sway the voter, not obtain their unbiased opinion.

The language in Proposition 8 defining marriage as the union of a man and a woman was approved by more than 61% of California voters in 2000. Earlier this year, four judges in San Francisco overturned this vote and declared that gay people have a constitutional right to be married. Do you think the judges were correct in their decision, or not?

And then there is a string of completely dishonest claims

Please tell me whether each of the following makes you more or less likely to support Proposition 8. What if you learned that:

  • If Proposition 8 passes, gay or lesbian couples will still be able to form civil unions and have the same rights as married heterosexual couples
  • If Proposition 8 fails, heterosexual couples who want to be legally married in a church that won’t perform same-sex marriage would then have to be married outside their church
  • If Proposition 8 fails, priests, ministers, and other clergy who won’t perform same-sex marriages because of their religious beliefs will face lawsuits and may lose their right to perform heterosexual marriages
  • If Proposition 8 fails, children in public schools will be taught that marriage is a relationship between any two adults rather than a man and a woman
  • If Proposition 8 fails, religious schools that provide housing for married students may lose their tax-exempt status if they don’t do so for gay or lesbian couples
  • If Proposition 8 fails, religious adoption agencies that place children only in homes with a mother and a father will not be able to place children in foster homes

And my favorite

Please listen to the following views about same-sex marriage.

(A) Same sex marriage should NOT be law if priests, ministers, and other clergy who believe the Bible allows for marriage only between a man and a woman will not be able to legally marry these couples in their place of worship without risk of lawsuits or loss of their tax-exempt status.

(B) Same sex marriage SHOULD become law, so gay and lesbian couples may have the same rights as other couples through marriage.

Do you believe same sex marriage should not be law or should be law?

Wow. Those are my two choices?

And so on they go.

But even with the ridiculousness of the “poll”s questions, I still have questions about the polling methods. It is not clear in which order these questions were asked. If the Push Polling came before the question about voting intention, then 52% saying that they support Proposition 8 is the result of the Push Poll rather than a reflection of the voters’ intentions when they picked up the phone.

This does seem to be likely. The results of the question about “four judges in San Francisco” overruling “61% of California voters” also resulted in 52% to 43%, an unlikely coincidence.

Also, considering the dishonesty stinking up the rest of the “poll”, I would have to question the methods by which the samples were selected. Choosing to call only on land lines, selection of calling time, and many other variables can all result in skewed results. And what of sample selection, is it representative of the diversity of the voting population?

Based on the questions they asked, I can’t be blamed for my suspicion that Marist cut whatever corners would result in the desired press release. Clearly, the desired conclusion was far more important than an honest assessment of the current status of voter opinion.

And so the anti-gay Knights of Columbus have released their bogus “poll” saying what they wanted it to say. And they only had to give up their very last shred of integrity to do so.

Dave

October 21st, 2008

Now this is an interesting matter.

You could be right that “the desired conclusion was far more important than an honest assessment” of opinion. It is also possible that the biases of the poll’s authors entered the poll in spite of their best intentions. (This is why it is best to be skeptical of poll results.)

The string of “what if you learned” questions is particularly interesting. I don’t see anything wrong with asking such questions so long as it is clear that the situations are hypothetical. The wording here is rather ambiguous. Perhaps the Marist College organization that created the poll should be contacted and questioned about the wording of such poll questions.

I have to disagree with you (you knew that was coming, didn’t you, Tim?) over your complaint about the poll’s discription of the ballot initiative.

I can’t fault you for expecting the poll to “ask a question that reasonably approximates the ballot question.” But that is what the poll did. “Amends the California constitution to say that only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California” is just another way of saying “provides that only marriage between a man and woman is valid or recognized in California.” The bit about the amendment eliminating “the right of same-sex couples to marry” is inherent in the statement of how the amendment defines a legal marriage.

To complain about the polls use of the initiative’s original heading “Limit on Marriage” rather than AG Jerry Brown’s rewrite is much ado about nothing if you’re concerned about an accurate description of the ballot measure.

Frankly, if complete honesty is the issue, both the poll and the ballot initiative should read something like: Amends the California Constitution to reserve the word “marriage” as the legal description for wedded male-female couples.

While I’m at it, I might as well take you to task for your consideration of the first “What if you learned that” question as a completely dishonest claim. (The emphasis was yours.)

The poll is wrong about civil unions. They do not exist in California. But that error isn’t enough to render the question/claim completely dishonest.

Couples in Californiadomestic partnerships have the same rights and responsibilities as married couples. It has not been demonstrated that the proposed amendment would alter California domestic partnership law in any way. In California domestic partnerships and marriages have always been treated as distinct institutions, and the amendment mentions only marriage. See Wikipedia citing Knight v. Superior Court and Armijo v. Miles:

“California courts have entertained several challenges to legislative expansions of the domestic partnership scheme enacted after Prop 22. Generally, these challenges alleged that the legislature inappropriately amended Prop 22 by making California’s domestic partnership scheme too similar to marriage or more broadly that Prop 22 made ‘any’ subsequent recognition of same-sex partnerships beyond the legislature’s inherent power. California Courts of Appeal rejected those claims, noting that domestic partnerships already existed as a legal institution separate from marriage at the time Prop 22 was enacted.”

Ben in Oakland

October 22nd, 2008

Sorry, dave.

One of the less-than-ingenuous claims about Prop. 8 is that we gay people, via domestic partner laws, already have all of the rights afforded heterosexuals by marriage.

Not really. and certainly, not this one: the rightness, the validity, the very existence of any heterosexual marriage will NEVER, EVER be debated, much less voted upon, by complete strangers.

But you can debate about our rights and equality before the law, and you can vote on our marriages. And if you can vote on that, then you can vote on the continued existence of those domestic partner laws. Just like you can vote on any statutory recognition of our lives and families. Just as you can vote to create laws that validate some people’s prejudices.

Just like Prop. 8.

Jonathan Justice

October 22nd, 2008

So, the story is that 43% of the surveyed folks intend to vote against Prop 8 even when subjected to that old time pushy polling. Even more amazing, 5% managed to remain undecided. One would expect that the reputed Author of “Thou shalt not bear false witness.” might view this with a certain level of distress.

It is pretty funny that this sort of Potemkin village performance is being used to advance what we are told is a moral issue. It is not so funny that the package of lies used to advance the issue is exactly why the campaign is so indecently expensive.

Trevor

October 22nd, 2008

Push-poll or not I’m not convinced that they didn’t get an “accurate” read of public opinion. It seems to jive with other polls conducted on the subject which suggests California voters will likely approve prop 8. Perhaps not by a large margin but still, it only takes one vote apparently. Which is one reason why states should require 3/4ths majority to amend their constitutions.

Dave

October 22nd, 2008

“the rightness, the validity, the very existence of any heterosexual marriage will NEVER, EVER be debated, much less voted upon, by complete strangers.”

Um, Ben, that isn’t a legal right.

You are making a supposition based on your reading of the culture. The legal fact is that the people and the legislature can vote upon the legal existence of heterosexual marriage.

Fred

October 22nd, 2008

Thanks, Timothy. I was looking this K of C poll over myself, and the whole methodology seemed questionable to me. The other thing is that Marist does not disclose how many of the “likely voters” were Republican, Democrat, or independent. In the fine print, significant majorities of both the latter groups opposed Prop 8, and as blue as CA is, they should outnumber Republicans considerably.

I wish more people would give money so No On Prop 8 can saturate the airwaves with the truth, and drown out the pro-8 lies. Even though we live in Illinois, my partner and I think defeating Prop 8 is important enough to have donated $5,000 to No On 8 this past weekend.

I can only dream of CA voters nixing this so completely that it goes away forever. Best of luck to all working on No On Prop 8!

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