Today Is The Day

Jim Burroway

November 4th, 2008

Star Spangled Banner

You know what to do.

Timothy Kincaid

November 4th, 2008

And NO on Proposition 8

And NO on Amendment 2

AJD

November 4th, 2008

If Prop. 8 passes — especially if Prop. 8 passes — I think it’s going to be the 21st century’s equivalent to the Scopes trial.

Consider the following:

1) At a time when the nation is on the brink of possibly the worst recession since the early 80s, families are donating their life savings to ban gay marriage, and the Yes On 8 campaign has spent more than $25 million
2) The amount of sheer mendacity that the campaign has used to get the amendment passed
3) All sorts of bad behavior, including blackmail and assault, committed by the leaders of the campaign, not to mention the obnoxiousness of its supporters
4) All of this is done for the sake of “family values” and preserving “God’s law”

For one, the Mormons will hurt the worst, considering the disdain many people already have for their religion. But right-wing evangelicals also have a lot to lose. Religion bashing is already in vogue, with all those atheist books and Bill Maher’s movie, but this is probably going to set off a wave of anti-religious sentiment, particularly with regard to Christianity.

Unfortunately, even as evangelical Christianity once again becomes the joke that H.L. Mencken rightfully portrayed it as, the damage will be done, and it will take at least a generation to fix it.

cowboy

November 4th, 2008

Be careful…you might give reason for having a Persecution Complex to our enemies.

AJD

November 4th, 2008

They already have one, cowboy. That’s why they had that “War on Christians” conference a year or two ago. An exacerbated persecution complex would just be a sign of their desperation to cling to power. The only people the religious right has to blame for its coming demise are the religious right people themselves.

I can still remember when Marilyn Manson drew huge crowds and all sorts of media attention by denouncing “the fascism of Christianity.” That sort of thing is probably going to make a comeback.

There is a backlash forming against the religious right, I think. They’ve overstepped their bounds over the last few years with their endless wars against gay rights, abortion and evolution, and a lot of people are really sick and tired of it.

kevin

November 4th, 2008

Anyone who reads Psalms and Acts of the Apostles on a regular basis will probably have a persecution complex, despite the fact that they are themselves the persecutors.

It’s helpful to wrestle the claim of persecution from their hands and point out how they are persecuting others in the name of God. I have faith that not every Evangelical is beyond listening to opposing viewpoints and making up their mind themselves…but I agree that it is a challenge. Their loyalty to what their charismatic leaders say is often blind and unchallenging, mostly because they seek out leaders who simply confirm their prejudices or theological points of view.

It’s Cafeteria Christianity, American Style.

AJD

November 4th, 2008

It’s not even cafeteria Christianity; it’s just masses and masses of mindless termites who don’t know how to think for themselves.

cowboy

November 4th, 2008

I just have to ask something here.

Yesterday, I overheard my boss’s boss talking about Steve Young and his family’s position on the California Proposition 8 mess. His comment was: “Why should we care about a sport figure’s opinion!” He was upset Super-Bowl ex-SF49er QB Steve Young was taking a stance against gay discrimination (or, at least, his wife was).

The water-cooler du-jour topic was being discussed by my co-workers in the next cubicle. They fear an all-Democratic congress and a Demo President would force them to accept same-sex marriages.

I got a pit in my stomach. Seriously. I felt my gut wrench.

How am I to react to my co-workers tomorrow after this?

Stefano A

November 4th, 2008

I voted in Ohio weeks ago by absentee ballot.

However, with long wait lines at most polling places around the country — which may discourage from voting those whom didn’t vote absenttee and for health reasons cannot stand in long lines — but would still like to vote. . . May I suggest that if you, too, have already voted, you call on your elderly or infirm neighbors and ask if they need a ride or assistance in getting to their polling place if they did not vote absentee? Offer to bring a folding lawn chair for them to sit on and volunteer to stand in line for them until their turn arrives.

Timothy Kincaid

November 4th, 2008

cowboy,

I don’t know exactly the right approach. Perhaps, if you are out to them and consider them close, you might sit down with that coworker and say something like:

“I overheard your comments about Prop 8. Please realize that when you talk about this subject you are talking about me. And when you talk in a way that is disparaging of me and other gay people it is offensive and it hurts me. I hope that you value me enough as a coworker and a friend that you will no longer speak in my presense about your desire to exclude me from equal treatment under the law.”

Make it personal. Because, whether they like it or not, it IS personal.

TJ McFisty

November 4th, 2008

Wonder if your coworkers say aloud that they’re scared of a black president because, well, you know…they‘ll take over. And, if they’d say it, would they say that around a black coworker?

Or if they’re anything-white themselves and talking smack about gays, how’d they feel if they were to hear such smack against them because of their color?

Is marginalization any better if it’s shared?

kevin

November 4th, 2008

Cowboy – I feel for you. I’m lucky in that my boss and most of my co-workers are staunch Democrats, but I’ve been in that position you’re in before. The only thing you can do is focus on doing your job, doing it well, and being able to clothe, shelter, and feed yourself. What your co-workers and bosses think is really besides the point, unless they somehow try to coerce you into voting a way you normally wouldn’t or punish you for it…that would be a good lawsuit.

Ben in Oakland

November 4th, 2008

This is from the piece i wrote– feel free to adopt:

Paul and I want for us, our friends, and our families exactly what you get from our government: the same dignity, the same respect, and the same equality before the law that you demand for yourselves. That’s all of it. Our lives and our families are every bit as valuable as yours. You don’t have to approve of or accept gay people, or to be a part of our lives; we have plenty of people who do. We are not attacking your marriages, your families, your faith, or your civil rights, or preventing them from being legally protected. Can you say the same about yourselves?

We want to take nothing from you. We want only the same rights and protections that you have. Nothing more.

And nothing less.

Ben in Oakland

November 4th, 2008

This is something Jason d wrote which I thought was terrific:

Dude, you don’t have to accept a thing. I just expect the federal and state governments to give equal protection to gay couples. That’s it.

There are plenty of people who don’t accept interracial marriages, plenty of kids get disowned for marrying the “wrong” person whether that be because of weight, gender, background, religion, class, etc.

When you get down to it, legally, marriage is a contract, nothing more. It’s voluntary, and you are not required to produce children, happiness, or anything else. You are simply legally bonded to one another. This allows you to make decisions for each other when needed, visit the hospital, deal with the unpleasant business of the remains of your partner, but this is not a sacred or sanctified institution. It’s a contract. You want the sacred? You want the holy? Then talk to your church about it. You want it to be legal? Then you need a contract, a government contract. All we’re after is the government contract, that’s it. I don’t care if every church in the nation says we’re not really married, I really don’t care what they think. I just don’t want to spend the next 50 years of my life caring, laughing, and loving someone only to have it all mean zero when one of us passes on. I want the dignity and respect from my government that any straight couple can get any day of the week

AJD

November 4th, 2008

I have a question for those of you in California: When will the results for Prop. 8 start coming out? Are they released a little bit at a time, as in the presidential elections, or all at once when it’s over?

Timothy Kincaid

November 4th, 2008

AJD,

They are released as the results come in. There should be some results almost immediately after the polls close but the full results may not be tallied until late tonight.

AJD

November 4th, 2008

Okay… Are there any exit polls out yet?

Timothy Kincaid

November 4th, 2008

THey won’t release exit polls until the polling stations close.

Jonathan

November 5th, 2008

Timothy,

Thanks for the blow by blow reporting.

I’m deeply saddened by the outcome of the Florida, Arizona and California referenda. At the same time, I’m heartened that Barack Obama said “gay” in his acceptance speech. Before I head out to work, I’m going to place a “GLBT for OBAMA” bumper sticker on my car and renew my commitment to roll back every single anti-gay so-called “marriage” amendment, starting right here in my home state of Virginia.

In Virginia we went through a bruising amendment battle in 2006 and lost miserably, however the loss was called a Phyrrhic victory by a Richmond newspaper because all these closeted conservative queer families stepped out and made their existence known while our opponents subjected the state to nothing less than vicious lies about us. State-level candidates that started out favoring the amendment either reversed course and apologized to our community, or saw their political fortunes begin to unravel.

The struggle for marriage equality is just beginning. It will take a generation to undue the discrimination that has been written onto the state constitutions. We would not have known of the discrimination had it not been written, so in that sense, it is good.

movie fan

November 7th, 2008

i can’t help thinking it’s awesome that there has been such long lines all over… people taking a greater interest in public issues is always a good thing

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