Box Turtle Bulletin
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobby“Now you must raise your children up in a world where that union of man and box turtle is on the same legal footing as man and wife…”
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobbyNovember 7th, 2008
Delerious over how their campaign of lies succeeded in California, anti-gays are already planning on their next target:
Gallagher said anti-gay marriage groups plan to focus next on New Jersey and New York, where the state legislatures are being lobbied to pass laws legalizing same-sex marriage.
The plan is to mobilize the same religious factions that joined forces in California to deter lawmakers from “taking on this divisive social issue while we are in the middle of a huge financial crisis,” Gallagher said.
And they will use the same tactic of flat-out lying:
Leaders of the successful Proposition 8 campaign say an unusual coalition of evangelical Christians, Mormons and Roman Catholics built a majority at the polls Tuesday by harnessing the organizational muscle of churches to a mainstream message about what school children might be taught about gay relationships if the ban failed.
If I were in New York or New Jersey I’d start marching and protesting today.
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Stefano A
November 7th, 2008
Let’s just up our campaign in New York is able to act more aggressively in actually confronting the lies instead of becoming obsessessed with trying to pull on “heart strings” and sentimentality about marriage.
Stefano A
November 7th, 2008
Whoops.
I meant “let’s just hope”, but then again, maybe upping the campaign and beginning now might not be a bad idea.
Stefano A
November 7th, 2008
I also hope “our side” is much more vocal about taking on main stream media reporting of the New York battle when it begins with regard to media reporting our oppositions argument. That is, I hope the New York main stream media is taken to task much more for not point out the fallacies and inaccuracies of the lies in their reporting than did those in California.
My impression of that reporting was that the media often simply quoted a pro side statesperson making a lie, then provided some accusatory quote about the lie from the pro side, but seldom actually then went into much factual reporting about the basis for the accusations of lies the pro side were making outside of editorial opinion pieces.
KipEsquire
November 7th, 2008
There is no initiative process in NY.
However, a Democratic state senator (and Pentecostal minister) just yesterday vowed to fight any attempt to bring gay marriage to New York.
Pomo
November 7th, 2008
Lets up they learn from our mistakes. if the “religious” side uses the same lies, between this blog and some others the groundwork has already been laid to get the truth out there!
a. mcewen
November 7th, 2008
Unless Gallagher is lying, we now know what they are going to do. We should be ready for this.
Speaking of what Pomo said, I already have several entries on my blog about the David Parker situation (he was one of the parents claiming that “children will be taught homosexuality.”)
AJD
November 7th, 2008
This time around, we need a better campaign, and we need to attack this thing head on. I’m going to write a letter to the NY Times right now, and those of you in New Jersey and New York should do the same.
One tiny ray of hope for New York is that we have a black governor who strongly supports gay rights, so this can’t be framed as a “gay=white” issue.
AJD
November 7th, 2008
Stefano, thank you so much for pointing that out. It was maddening to see article after article that played out exactly as you say. As a journalist, I know bad reporting when I see it, and quoting a lie and following it with an accusatory quote without actually investigating its veracity is the epitome of bad reporting.
Tim, you should write an article to CJR or AJR about the reporting about Prop. 8. The reason why they got away with lying through their teeth was that the media let them.
John
November 7th, 2008
Obama got in front of some of the slurs directed toward him. When the campaign started to hint at socialism, he started mocking them, saying that next their going to be calling him a communist for sharing toys in kindergarten. It stopped that particular line dead in its tracks.
NY and NJ groups should anticipate what the hate mongers are going to say up front. They should have commercials saying “Opponents of gay marriage are going to trot out the same lies that they trotted out in CA about teaching gay marriage to kids, forcing ministers to marry gay couples against their religious convictions, and that marriage and domestic partner benefits are equivalent.”
By taking them on first and calling them liars before they even open their mouths, you can take some sting out of their arguments.
I also think that asking voters if they really want to get behind a movement that is overwhelming funded and managed by the Mormon Church would be worthwhile. Point out the pattern in Alaska, Hawaii and California. Also, pointing out that the Mormons have a long unrepentant history of discrimination against blacks should also be a prominent message in African American communities. Yesterday it was African Americans, today gay people; both victims of Mormon discrimination. Blacks have no reason to believe that the Mormons have their best interests at heart.
The Prop 8 folks were vicious, and the No on 8 folks were far too tame.
Jim Burroway
November 7th, 2008
As one who tried to battle prop 102, I’d also say that LGBT groups in New York and New Jersey also need to start building a financial war chest ASAP. They have no idea the size of the Tsunamy that’s headed their way.
AJD
November 7th, 2008
I just sent the following email to Cathy Marino-Thomas, the executive director of Marriage Equality NY:
Dear Ms. Marino-Thomas,
You may have read that, according to the Associated Press, the same people behind Proposition 8 are headed for New Jersey and New York to ban same-sex marriage here.
I’m going to level with you: A big reason why we lost in California was because No On 8 launched a tame, weak, feeble and impotent campaign. It used the same campaign tactics that we’ve been using across the country that have gotten us virtually nowhere and done nothing but created more and more setbacks. I’m not a campaigning specialist or expert, but unless you want to see two more states join the list of states with gay-marriage bans — one of them a bellwether state — you need to do things differently this time.
First of all, you need to resist the temptation to use focus groups and go with your gut. That means no more ads that make vague and abstract pleas for tolerance and “don’t discriminate” and “say ‘no’ to bigotry” while avoiding images of gay people or even the word “gay.” Instead, air and print ads that show real gay couples and their families, that highlight the prices of homophobia like teenage suicide and hate crimes. Very importantly, if you don’t want to see 70 percent of black voters here vote for a ban, reach out to racial minorities — show gay people who are black, South Asian, Latino/a, Native American, Middle Eastern and Asian, as well as interracial couples, and do ads in Spanish, Chinese, Russian and other languages. Show gay people as relatives, friends, neighbors and co-workers.
Second, you need to launch a pre-emptive attack against the religious right. Highlight the Prop. 8 campaign’s blatant use of lies and thuggery. Talk about the issue in terms of church-state separation. Considering the Mormon church’s role in Prop. 8, do ads that talk about their history of bigotry against blacks and their lack of repentance on the matter. I’ve been telling everyone: Make this our generation’s Scopes trial, with us as H.L. Mencken and Clarence Darrow!
Third, we need to stop being so goddamn overconfident and self-satisfied and dump the happy-go-lucky positive thinking in which we just assume we’re going to win because this is such a liberal state. Already, I read the following in the AP story: “Kate Kendell, executive director of the National Center for Lesbian Rights, said she isn’t worried the Proposition 8 campaign has produced a new political juggernaut, noting that the religious denominations that worked together in California have deep theological and spiritual differences.” This is the problem I’m talking about. Even after a colossal failure at the hands of those very religions with “deep theological and spiritual differences,” she still just assumes everything will be fine. This is a strategy of futility.
Fourth, you need to get our community riled up and pissed off. Notice how we only marched through the streets and picketed the Mormon temple in Salt Lake City after we lost. I read that that people tried to have a march in West Hollywood, and only a few hundred people showed up. Meanwhile, they saw thousands of people getting drunk in bars.
Fifth, related to reaching out to minorities, eviscerate the claim that we’re not a “real” civil rights movement. Hire Angela Davis (lesbian and Black Panther) to do a commercial. Show video footage of Bayard Rustin and Coretta Scott King.
Sixth, make appeals to conservative ideals like keeping the government out of people’s lives. Accuse the anti-gay-marriage people of trying to legislate their peculiar notions of morality.
If we’re going to win this time, we need to be prepared to put up a huge, nasty fight. The Human Rights Campaign school of passive activism simply hasn’t worked anywhere. It failed miserably in California, and it will fail even more miserably in New York — I guarantee it.
The bottom line is, we’ve had failure after failure after failure. We need to be angry and pissed-off, and we need to show it. Nobody is going to see our pain and our suffering if we don’t show it. We can’t keep acting complacent and comfortable, as though we can win dignity for ourselves by just sitting around and waiting for it to arrive.
I would like to donate to your campaign when the campaign for bigotry reaches our state, but that will depend on whether you plan to repeat the tactics that have brought us nothing or employ tactics that will yield real, tangible results.
Patrick
November 7th, 2008
I agree with Pomo that the information is out there to expose and combat the lies – but it needs to be used. There are blogs, books (including my new one – “Thou Shalt Not Love: What Evangelicals Really Say to Gays”), videos, etc. But gays must educate themselves and be prepared for the battle.
I just saw the LDS statement calling for both sides in the debate to not vilify the other and use mutual respect and civility, not relying on misinformation! As if they hold the moral high ground!
Lynn David
November 8th, 2008
Someone explain to me one thing. It was the Christian religion which got marriage denied us in California. Yet the Supreme Court there says gays and lesbians are a protected class, but marriage can be redefined on the basis of gender.
Can it be redefined on the basis of religion? Why no, that goes against a basic right which is identified in the federal and all state constitutions. And yet it was religiously led support and money which redefined marriage in California.
Ok, why not attack the California amendment which will ban marriage for gays and lesbians on the basis of religion? Parade a gay couple and a lesbian couple before the court, call them Wiccan and tell the court that Wicca allows for marriage (handfastings) between its same-gendered members, therefore this amendment is in violation of religious freedoms. Even the National Organization of Wiccan Congregations offered a statement in support of Gay and Lesbian Marriage in California last September.
Hell, I’m atheist; as far as I’m concerned they’re screwing with my anti-religious rights. Which is why I’d just love to use their pet Amendment against them to get marriage for all of us. Failing that, I’m with AJD.
Willie Hewes
November 8th, 2008
I completely agree with AJD.
Show real gay people, real gay families, and the real pain and hardship people suffer.
We also need a better answer to (yes on 8 chant) “Shame on you – you want to teach the children” than “uh, no we don’t.”
Yes we do! For a lot of perfectly good reasons. Children should learn to respect differences between people at a young age, children should be taught about reality as it is, gay couples aren’t a dirty secret that children should be protected from, there are children in these schools who are gay and know it and deserve our support, there are kids in gay families in these classrooms who deserve to see their families respected, just because your religion doesn’t agree with homosexuality doesn’t mean you have some kind of right to airbrush it out of the world as far as your kids are concerned.
Vegetarians don’t get to take their kids out of school when the teacher reads a book about eating bacon (and neither do the Jews), the children of pacifists have to learn about war, the children of creationists have to learn about Biology, the children of white supremacists have to share their classroom with black kids, and the children of anti-gays will have to learn that gay people exist.
Because they do. Get used to it.
Paul
November 8th, 2008
Tim, since you and Box Turtle Bulletin have debunked so much of the anti-gay lies would you be willing and able to have a webpage that we can use that matches up the lies to the rebuttals? We already know the lies they will use in future states and I’m sure you have the rebuttals somewhere. It should be only a matter of putting it all in an easy-to-use place.
NG
November 8th, 2008
As one who tried to battle prop 102, I’d also say that LGBT groups in New York and New Jersey also need to start building a financial war chest ASAP. They have no idea the size of the Tsunami that’s headed their way.
Yes we do.
Unfortunately, bitchy gay syndrome has affected many gay activists here too. Whether the community can put aside their petty issues with one another and stand united as a whole remains to be seen at this particular time.
Timothy Kincaid
November 8th, 2008
Paul,
Perhaps we can set up a permanant page that allows easy access. If anti-gays begin a campaign in NY or NY, I’ll try and get something together.
Buffy
November 8th, 2008
I’m with AJD and Willie. All the time I was pointing out the fact that schools wouldn’t be “teaching gay marriage” inside I was screaming “why should it matter if they do?”. I’m sick of the notion some people have that because they slap a “religious beliefs” label on their bigotries they can get anything they want. If they really want to have their children under such control that they never hear anything besides the propaganda they feed them they should home school them.
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