Mormon Times: CA Gays are “Sore Losers”

Timothy Kincaid

December 1st, 2008

The Mormon Church has been as some effort to tell the world that the tens of millions of dollars and nearly endless manhours which they dedicated to banning marriage equality for gay citizens in California and Arizona was not based on malice. They aren’t haters, you know. They are full of love love love.

But when talking amongst themselves, another picture emerges. And in tone it seems to have less love than is promised. Take, for example, an article by Lee Benson in the Mormon Times. Benson chats merrily away about “winning streaks” and percentages, all as though this is nothing more than a game.

In all, 58,911,741 Americans over the past decade have cast votes on the issue.

The overall score is 37,662,846 to 21,248.894.

If it were a football game, you’d change the channel in the third quarter and watch something else.

And by now, we should just accept the actions of his church. They’ve won, you know. And from the astonishingly arrogant position of Benson and – from everything I’ve seen – the leaders of his church, that’s all that matters. We won – you lost – so shut up and take it.

But California won’t let it go. The whining is enough to make a soccer player envious. Lawyers are headed to court to block the proposition. Others are demanding that the vote go back on the ballot in 2010. Proponents of Prop. 8 are being singled out for abuse by opponents.

Sore losing is having a field day.

I’ll admit that at times I may wonder if perhaps the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is getting too much of the burden of anger for their efforts. But it’s articles like this one that remind me that not only are they confident in their power and arrogant in their self-justification, but when they think no one’s listening they are contemptious towards those they’ve hurt.

David C.

December 1st, 2008

To LDS leaders and their followers:

The full text of Proverbs 16:18: “Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.”


December 1st, 2008

OK, someone explain this to me:

* A ballot initiative failed several years ago.

* The CA senate approved marriage equality twice.

* The CA supreme court said that denying marriage equality was discriminatory.

“Pro marriage” people take it to the voters a 2nd time and have a fear campaign.

Sore losers? REALLY? I mean, REALLY?


December 1st, 2008

Wait, so they’re adding the votes for prop 22 together with the votes for prop 8 and saying that’s how many people are against gay marriage? B Are you kidding me? Is the writer really that stupid, or does he think that his readers are? The truth is that anti-gay voters went from 61% to 52% in 8 years. The “score” is officially a nail-biter. Just another example of the inherit dishonesty of the Religious Right.


December 1st, 2008

Never mind, I read the full article. He’s just adding all the bigot votes throughout the country. I love the last bit, claiming that gay marriage is “discrimination” against people who don’t think gays should be allowed to get married. Someone needs a dictionary.


December 1st, 2008

A better analogy would be that our team has had an awful season, with only two wins. But each game we’re losing by smaller and smaller margins with our California game only down by 3 points. Seeing how we can’t but improve and our opponents’ players keep aging out and booed off by fans. It’s true we’ve lost most games so far, but the games are getting closer and closer. The four this year we barely lost and I wouldn’t want to miss a minute of the next few.

David C.

December 1st, 2008

I can well understand your outrage, Timothy.

If this were a football game, the refs would call an Unsportsmanlike Conduct–Illegal Celebration penalty against the LDS team, though I don’t think there is a penalty for lying in football.

The enemies of Gay Rights have had good seasons over the last 8 years. Their timing brought them a lot of victories, culminating in the bittersweet 2008 elections, coming as they did after eight years of Bush. They have been able to sustain this drive because of their puppet in the White House and our ineffective defense. We keep losing because our offense has barely been in possession of the ball.

We must find courage and patience to work through these inevitable setbacks, rearming, rebuilding, and supporting our own political forces to take back what is rightfully and morally ours. We know that the Obama administration and the democratically controlled congress must move slowly on gay issues, at least at first, or run the risk of alienating enough voters to loose their majority in one or both houses, or possibly even a second Obama term. Besides, their hands are very full, and nether the world nor US relationships with other countries are in the greatest of shape. We may need to take a step back and sublimate our own causes long enough for the situation to stabilize and our country to rebound while we rebuild our political influence. Even though there was an electoral “landslide”, the popular vote margins were much smaller than any progressive or liberal should be comfortable with.

This does not mean we should completely remove the pressure on our Democratic allies to do something to redress the plight of gay people in the United States, but we must find a sustainable way that helps gay-friendly leaders to be successful on our behalf. That means political success in the large, not just in the courts, but all three branches of government and the governed, and though that may take more time than we want in the near-term, it will pay off in the mid- and long-term.

This is not the first time religious fervor has repressed a minority, and it is unlikely to be the last. We can win in the long run, but it will take patience and careful organization to meet the challenge of those that confound, conflate, and twist the truth in the interest of advancing hate in the name of their conditional “love.” One of our strategies in the battle for hearts and minds has to be shining a light on tactics the LDS and others of their ilk use to vilify and denigrate gay people in this country and elsewhere. No lie, distortion, liable, or slander against a gay person or organization should go unchallenged. We need to define the vocabulary, and appropriate the terminology of our detractors if necessary, to expose their hypocrisy.

We may need to move our positions on some things to achieve our end. And while that may be a little hard to contemplate just now, it is a reality of the political battles ahead of us. We will not undo or neutralize all the influences of religion on this country. We can compete in the marketplace of ideas and belief if we do not alienate our nascent allies with shrill vitriol or violence. Rarely do minorities achieve victory alone. By forging new alliances, including those with faith communities that support a vision of universal love and acceptance, we can turn back the forces of misunderstanding and ignorant prejudice.

We have to get smarter, too. We need to understand the central themes of the arguments used to marginalize and isolate gay people in this country and throughout time. We need to dig back in history for those illuminating events and historical moments that will inform our perspectives and guide our judgement. Marching, carrying a placard, shouting, voting, all these things are the necessary signs of activism but are not guarantors of changing anything. We must know what is wrong, how it is wrong, how it came about being wrong, who is behind the wrong, and be ready to explain to every citizen of this country how to right that wrong.

The time for complacency is over, and if gay people truly want their freedom, they will have to earn it with intellect, sweat, and quite possibly even more blood than they have already shed. We should never seek to gain our freedom by violence, but we must be ready to stand firm against tyranny, from wherever it may come.


December 1st, 2008

[Evan] Wolfson sees the amendment(s) in terms of discrimination against gays who want to be married while not seeing that the absence of such marriage amendments would be discrimination against not only those who prefer marriage to be defined between one man and one woman, but against untold numbers of children whose world would be greatly changed as a result.

IOW, discrimination against those who “prefer” to discriminate.

I know it’s been a theme, but it continues to amaze me that these are actual adults making this argument, and in addition, thinking that this level of idiocy and malice is a superior situation in which to raise children.

And out of curiosity – given the sports analogy – how would you measure (or assign?) handicap in this situation? Because clearly, the Yes On 8 campaign had the “advantage” of not only lying their a**es off, but of lying about an already hated minority.


December 1st, 2008


The Mormons are also a hated minority, and they know that in future battles they we be front and center in all campaigns. People will be asked if they trust the Mormons and want to give the Mormons more power by supporting these campaigns. This issue will be particularly important and ugly if the Mormons go after the CA Supreme Court. All this Mormon whining about fallout from their Prop 8 actions is the surest indication that we are being effective.

As for Timothy’s concern about focusing too much on the Mormons, whether fair or not (and I consider it fair) we will need to be able to put a face on the bigotted forces we face. The Mormons are a particularly good target given general ill at ease feelings toward this church and suspicions about their motives and goals.


December 2nd, 2008

“People will be asked if they trust the Mormons and want to give the Mormons more power by supporting these campaigns.”

Ahh…the H&R Block tact. “When Mormons speak, everybody listens.”

So what’s next? Imprisonment, or death, or death by imprisonment?

Lovely to know that they’ll hold that weight…


December 2nd, 2008

@Emproph – “Because clearly, the Yes On 8 campaign had the “advantage” of not only lying their a**es off, but of lying about an already hated minority.”

They also have the advantage that many people will assume they are being honest because they are supposedly Christian. Seriously, compare how many Americans who think that Christian leaders intentionally attempt to deceive people with those who think that Christians attempt to be honest in their dealings. It’s why we have to shout from the rooftops with clear examples of their deception.


December 8th, 2008

My struggle for civil equality is not a football game. The analogy itself is profoundly trivialising and demeaning.

David C.

December 14th, 2008

My struggle for civil equality is not a football game. The analogy itself is profoundly trivialising and demeaning.

Lee Benson was trivializing and demeaning the response of all those that wanted to see Prop 8 defeated and protested its passage. He chose language designed to marginalize and demean Prop 8 opponents. It’s a psychological move designed to cheer his side and demoralize ours. I’m glad we are not taking the bait, but the analogy may be more apt than anyone thinks.

No, our struggle isn’t a football game, but gay rights is a political football for some, and all players need to be reminded that there is a line-backer ready to tackle them if they try to run with that ball. And though we believe gay rights to be a noble cause and worthy of respect, we are playing a rough game here.

Sometimes we will fail and our opponent will succeed. Eventually we will get our turn at offense and advance our cause. In the meantime, we must play a good defense to avoid loosing the ground we have gained.

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