Box Turtle Bulletin
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobby“Now you must raise your children up in a world where that union of man and box turtle is on the same legal footing as man and wife…”
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobbyDecember 18th, 2008
Congressman Barney Frank (D-MA) just sent out this statement on Obama’s selection of Rick Warren to offer the Inaugural invocation:
I am very disappointed by President-elect Barack Obama’s decision to honor Reverend Rick Warren with a prominent role in his inauguration. Religious leaders obviously have every right to speak out in opposition to anti-discrimination measures, even in the degrading terms that Rev. Warren has used with regard to same-sex marriage. But that does not confer upon them the right to a place of honor in the inauguration ceremony of a president whose stated commitment to LGBT rights won him the strong support of the great majority of those who support that cause.
It is irrelevant that Rev. Warren invited Senator Obama to address his congregation, since he extended an equal invitation to Senator McCain. Furthermore, the President-Elect has not simply invited Rev. Warren to give a speech as part of a series in which various views are presented. The selection of a member of the clergy to occupy this uniquely elevated position has always been considered a mark of respect and approval by those who are being inaugurated.
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Jaft
December 18th, 2008
He put it better than I could.
Hank
December 18th, 2008
I guess we should’ve stuck with Hillary.
Robert
December 18th, 2008
I’m beginning to feel that Obama is extending one hand to gays in friendship and equality while the other hand secretly holds a knife to our backs. Time will tell.
Regan DuCasse
December 18th, 2008
Why not Rabbi Marvin Hier? Why not a Bishop from an all inclusive church? Like Bishop John S. Spong, who has many years of civil rights advocacy behind him?
Someone like Desmond Tutu? Unless they have to be American. But Tutu is an INTERNATIONAL figure that everyone knows, also a human rights advocate and outright HERO.
Inviting Warren to the Inaugeration, no biggie. But the invocation…no way.
Hebrewtatttoo
December 18th, 2008
Great choice.
Now this is change.
Nolan Nelson
December 18th, 2008
I submit reasonable scholarship must conclude Christian faith cannot advocate homosexual marriage. The entire Bible, in speaking of the character, identity, and purpose of God, continuously addresses the issue of homosexual behavior. The scriptures say that in addition to creating all things, God created a single institution, which was marriage between a man and woman as the earthy manifestation of the oneness relationship He seeks with all human beings.
Throughout the Bible He is spoken of as masculine, and all humans become feminine in relation to Him: become the Bride of Christ. To restore relationship lost in Eden, God sent Christ to die for all human sins, but people must repent of, reject all our sins. To pursue fornication, adultery, or homosexual behavior is to reject His identity and His character, and therefore repudiate His gift of salvation.
In Him absolute righteousness and absolute love achieves perfect justice. The scriptures provide no prescription for this problem, but pose a moral paradox requiring one to come before Him. His solution compromises neither His righteousness, nor His unconditional love in guiding each person who struggles through a fallen world, and lives with a fallen nature.
In advocating homosexual marriage, Christian leaders must abandon sound scholarship, and adjust and select scriptures to fabricate a god of their own design. The result is comforting, popular, and easily controlled. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob remains timeless, all knowing, all powerful; terrible, unconditionally loving, and awaits humanity’s plea to Him.
Patrick
December 18th, 2008
Nolan,
I invite you to read “Thou Shalt Not Love: What Evangelicals Really Say to Gays” and then decide if your comment about “reasonable scholarship” is accurate. I think you will realize that “reasonable scholarship” does not necessitate your conclusion. In fact, I think you will find some “reasonable scholars” strongly disagree with you and have legitimate reasons for their disagreement.
RomeoandJoe
December 19th, 2008
This is neither the time nor the place to open dialogue with the bigots. Had this clown made anti-semitic or anti-black remarks you can bet he wouldn’t be on the speech menu! Remember also, this is not just a gay issue…his positions on abortion and stem cell research should send out some more alarms…Obama really goofed on this one!
Ben in Oakland
December 19th, 2008
I was afraid the obama would just be clinton light. I can remember in ’92 feeling the same feelings of elation, yet wondering if and how he was going to screw us. I wasn’t surprised when he backed off DADT, and signed DOMA on the very day the imprisoned night stalker murderer married a woman he had never met, and during the time period he was preserving marriage by getting monica’d in the oval office.
There were so many people he could have chosen who would have sent an entirely different message. This was Obama’s Sarah Palin moment. We have been imPalined.
This is why I will not, under any circumstance, give money to any politician or political party, ever.
Ben in Oakland
December 19th, 2008
Nolan nelson: I won’t get into a theological debate with you. Most of what you have to say is highly debatable. Paraphrasing Humpty Dumpty in Alice, the bible means what I say it means, nothing more and nothing less.
Here’s a real test of faith and truth for you. Rather than beating up on gay people, which is relatively easy, why don’t you go to Iran and explain to any mullah you can find why your faith and interpetations are the correct ones, and a billion muslims are dead wrong.
And if you survive that, then you can come back and read the parts of your book that tell you that it is not your place to judge, nor your right to try to contain your god within the covers of a book.
Chaz
December 19th, 2008
Nicely put by Barney. Are we starting to see Obama’s true colours?
Priya Lynn
December 19th, 2008
Nolan said “God, continuously addresses the issue of homosexual behavior.”.
Not even close. The bible has a few passages that can be interpreted to be about gays, it is far from a continual address. If it were the bible would be about nothing but gay behavior. On the other hand the bible has over 300 admonitions to heterosexuals.
Nolan said “The scriptures say that in addition to creating all things, God created a single institution, which was marriage between a man and woman as the earthy manifestation of the oneness relationship He seeks with all human beings.”.
It doesn’t say that anywhere in the bible. Adam and Eve were never married and their children engaged in incestuous behavior. Clearly from the beginning marriage was never a part of your god’s plan.
Dennis Veite
December 19th, 2008
@Nolan Nelson, if it’s so damned important to you why are you lurking about on Box Turtle Bulletin? Get off our board and out of our state.
Timothy Kincaid
December 20th, 2008
Dennis,
Box Turtle is a forum for those who disagree as well. We aren’t interested in creating an echo chamber.
Timothy Kincaid
December 20th, 2008
Nolan Nelson,
I find it intereting that you bring up the parallel that the Christian body is the bride of Christ. At no point in Scripture are we told that this then feminizes humanity. Never.
You will recall that the audience of this message was primarily male (recall that Paul directs that women enquire from men if they don’t understand the faith). However, this imagery did not seem to bother those who heard it too much.
Perhaps they were less obsessed about the male-female nature of wedding imagery. And that may be because of a dominant Roman culture which was familiar with homosexuality and non-gender-conforming roles.
In any case, I don’t tend to get too caught up in the gender of God. I’m not at all sure why anyone would care whether God has a penis or what he would do with it if he did.
Dennis Veite
December 21st, 2008
@Hank: Oh, you think???
Dennis Veite
December 21st, 2008
My apologies, Timothy.
N Waff
December 22nd, 2008
It’s good to see that Barney Franks follows his homosexual agenda of “inclusion” and doesn’t discriminate against people of other beliefs. I’d hate to see Franks declare the choice of pastor Rick Warren as a mistake for praying in the inauguration just because he holds a Christian Biblical world view. Oops, scratch that – Franks if being a hypocrite.
Roberto
December 22nd, 2008
Barney’s sending a clear signal – whether planned or not – that he’s intolorant.
Interesting when ‘tolerance’ is asked for, yet Barney cannot give it. This destroys his argument. “Do as I say, not as I do.” This sets back the gay community.
Barney has bigger fish to fry…like maybe the FINANCIAL CRISIS..
As Rodney King said, “Can’t we all just get along?”.
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