Box Turtle Bulletin
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobby“Now you must raise your children up in a world where that union of man and box turtle is on the same legal footing as man and wife…”
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobbyAugust 4th, 2009
We would be remiss if we didn’t also point out that Charlotte, NC-based pastor Michael Brown was first out of the box with this statement early Sunday morning while most of Americas were waking up to the news:
Brown, himself a Jewish follower of Jesus, says he was “shocked and saddened” to hear the news of the killings, especially in Israel. “We don’t have the details yet, but this has all the markings of an act of raw hatred, and as such it must be utterly renounced. Whatever differences any of us may have with any sector of society, be those religious differences or ideological differences, we must maintain those differences with civility and respect. The moment we resort to violence, especially in God’s name, we become agents of destruction and bring reproach to the God we claim to serve.”
The press release is pretty good, at least from his particular point of view, until you get to the last paragraph. There, he claims that Prop 8 supporters have gotten death threats, while providing no substantiation for the claim. We’re aware of “I hope you die and rot in hell” or “I’m armed and not afraid to defend myself if you come after me” variety, but unfortunately we all get those. I don’t see those as threats though. That’s the price we pay for expressing viewpoints in a sometimes uncivil society. I’m interested in knowing about actual threats. So far, we’ve heard no such reports.
That said, I do know that LGBT community centers have well-practiced procedures in place to deal with actual threats to harm and property. I don’t doubt that anti-gay groups do as well. We’ve deleted comments from both sides on this web site that has advocated violence, and we continue to see such comments remain unmoderated on other anti-gay web sites and on YouTube. The crazies really are out there.
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Penguinsaur
August 4th, 2009
I’m sure everyone condemns the shootings, I’m sure if afew black guys got mowed down with an uzi the neo-nazis and KKK would ‘condemn’ the violence to, they want violence but they know you cant be honest about it.
Dan
August 4th, 2009
While I agree that this site should not allow for calls to violence, there’s some facts that readers should know about the dynamics of life in Israel.
First of all, as a former Israeli myself, I can tell you that after each terrorist attack, readers of popular sites (such as YNET) are allowed to comment with messages such as “death to arabs” (YNET after a long delay pretends to be responsible and then they these out). The same is true about other sites. The reason I’m bringing this up is because the Israeli (right wing) mindset is FILLED with hatred and insanity. Even the movie Bruno depicted an escape from a lynching mob of the ultra-orthodox.
Readers should know that being/looking/acting gay in some parts of Israel will get you the same treatment as if you were to go to a black neighborhood and start yelling n*ggers. In other words, you may not come out alive.
So when I say I hate them and I hope they get what they deserve. I REALLY REALLY mean that!
Christopherâ„¢
August 4th, 2009
While I appreciate Michael Brown’s willingness to condemn violence, I’m offended by the fact that any “apology” or “condemnation” which originates from the anti-gay side always, ALWAYS comes with a qualifier.
There is never, “We’re sorry… period.” It’s always, “We’re sorry, but here are all the things we still don’t like about your community.”
It’s never, “We condemn this… period.” It’s always, “We condemn this… but here’s why you should feel sorry for us, too.”
Both approaches are disingenuous and incredibly self-centered. And then they wonder why we question their motives and don’t trust anything they say. Well, Michael and the rest of you… now you know.
JJQR
August 4th, 2009
I don’t care what anybody from North Carolina has to say anyway.
AdrianT
August 4th, 2009
When it comes with such a qualifier – you may as well not bother. It means nothing to those whose loved ones are dead or critically injured.
It’s a bit like the reactions from religious leaders who could could not unequivocally condemn the 9/11 terrorist attacks or the 7/7/ London bombings without some reference to Palestine or Afghanistan.
I do not recall any gay militant machine gunning anyone over Prop 8 – I think an old lady’s sponge cross was trampled on and a few bibles were thrown around in the castro. Hardly compares, does it?
Regan DuCasse
August 4th, 2009
Death threats, in our digital, instant messaging age, can be easily traced. The police have ample ways, when someone is confronted with such a serious thing, to preserve the threat, if it’s audio, and give the recording to authorities.
Authorities CAN verify they have been notified or have evidence, and those threatened can access the media to report if, if it’s valid.
Since no investigation, no reporting in the media, no particular and specific persons have been found to have issued the death threats, we can assume that these allegations are bullsh*t.
Bull. Sh*t.
But it makes good fear fodder whenever anyone is talking about someone gay.
BTW, the killings of these teens in Tel Aviv has been addressed by rallies, marches. All peaceful and legal, not RIOTS or any kind of violence.
Which has been the typical response of gay people worldwide.
All things considered, this is remarkable and potent.
And what makes the smear that gay people are threatening directly or indirectly, even in revenge for such acts as this, all the more hollow.
Chad
August 4th, 2009
“When it comes with such a qualifier – you may as well not bother.”
Exactly. And even if Michael Brown’s claims about death threats can be substantiated, then 1) it’s still not equivalent to the tragedy that occurred, despite Brown’s implication, and 2) Brown’s rhetorical claim is still obviously a deliberate attempt to obscure the fact that the LGBT community is still the marginalized minority in this struggle, while his side can claim all the cards.
Dr. Michael L. Brown
August 4th, 2009
Please take a moment and read the entire news release, linked in the article by Jim.
My purpose in making the statement was twofold (but there were no qualifiers).
First, to categorically renounce the shootings, since I utterly deplore violence, all the more when it is in the name of religion. (Of course, we still don’t know who committed the horrific crime and why, but I wanted to be pro-active in the event that this was a religiously-motivated crime).
Second, against this backdrop, to say that I know there are crazy people in all religions and on both sides of LGBT issues, and that’s why it is imperative for us to sit down together and talk about differences face to face with civility and respect, setting an anti-violent example. Without my references to threats coming our way, my comments would have made less sense.
I appreciate Jim acknowledging my news release, and I’d encourage you to read it for yourselves. Having done that, feel free to blast away again. At least I’ll know that you’re doing it in proper context. :)
Burr
August 4th, 2009
Actually your comments don’t make sense because there hasn’t been any prominent instance of a homosexual shooting up an anti-gay church. There’s simply no equivalence between idle threats and actual violence.
Thanks for playing.
I’m still praying for you.
Alex
August 4th, 2009
Dr. Brown, let’s put your marriage and civil rights to a vote and see how respected you feel.
Alex
August 4th, 2009
Also, I doubt the victims of this attack would appreciate your “blast away” remark. What a despicably callous thing to say.
Emproph
August 4th, 2009
And from the other side of his mouth:
Just one of the many “civil†and “respectful†articles on his Coalition of Conscience website.
Regan DuCasse
August 5th, 2009
“I have friends who received death threats.”
Dr. Brown, did they contact the police, did they KEEP the evidence that such a thing occurred, you know like a recording (if it was a message left on a phone or machine), is there some recognition of or identification of the person who made such a threat?
Are there witnesses? Was that person a man or woman, HTF do you KNOW those that made the threat were gay?
I hear the opposition say that, with NO proof they even filed a police report, or that the police were able to verify this information TO THE PRESS.
Because as sure as we’re all sitting here, the press would know about it, wouldn’t they Dr. Brown?
When the UCC in Knoxville, TN…the latest shooting in a church just prior to the shooting death of Dr. Tiller, the motive was ANTI GAY hatred towards an accepting church.
The killer was well known for being anti gay, as well as having an arsenal of guns.
From where I’m sitting with ALL my ‘radical homosexual activist friends’, and they are MANY and have been for a LONG, LONG time…no one, nor our associates has done something so serious and illegal.
Look around you Dr. Brown, who is actually DEAD?
Who is actually threatened with anything from emotional blackmail as children, to assault in school to violent attacks while doing anything a citizen should be able to do freely?
Threatened? Really? Really?
WE have the proof regarding a LOT more than death threats, Dr. Brown.
You better BRING the evidence bub, you better give any one of us the proof that the police can trace the threat and assessed it as CREDIBLE.
When it’s all said and done, gay folks by and large don’t DO death threats. Aren’t so COWARDLY and without righteous rage and indignation. In Israel, in a TX bar open only a few weeks, in Knoxville, TN when any one of a gay person ANYWHERE is actually killed, or is brutalized in the street (even by police) or their own homes…we MARCH in peace, we WELCOME non violence and don’t plot to respond IN KIND.
Those of us who support gay equality are NOT people of empty rhetoric and invalid accusations, Dr. Brown.
I cannot and will not believe that you said what you for any other reason than to portray gay people in an inflammatory way.
As IF the violence against even gay CHILDREN isn’t bad enough.
You are only inviting MORE with such an accusation.
You. Are. Full. Of. Sh*t.
So STUFF your phony condolences. You didn’t mean a word of it.
BTW, I work in law enforcement, and I know exactly how the police deals with death threats.
And false reports of them.
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