Minor amendment may get two more GOP Senate votes in Washington

Timothy Kincaid

February 1st, 2012

Josh Feit at PubliCola is reporting that two more Washington State Republican Senators may vote for marriage equality tonight if they can amend the proposed bill slightly.

Sens. Fain and Hill will vote for the marriage bill if a couple of friendly amendments are passed to clarify that clergy and religious institutions do not have to recognize gay marriage for things such as premarital counsel.

I have no problem with that. They already can refuse the perform the service, not allow their sanctuary, or meeting hall. I can’t see any problem with saying, “Okay, Rev. Joe, you don’t have to give gay couples premarital counseling if its against your religion.” I can’t imagine why anyone would want premarital counseling from someone who is going to counsel you not to marry.

UPDATE: Fain Both Fain and Hill joined Republican Senators Litzow and Pflug and 25 24 Democrats to pass this bill with a healthy bipartisan majority of 28 -21.


February 1st, 2012

According to local news, the bill goes to the Senate floor at 6pm local time. It’s expected to be debated for a few hours, given the numerous proposed amendments.


February 1st, 2012

I think it’s fine for any religion to refuse to recognize the marriages except as legally binding contracts or previously existing relationships – that is, they can’t marry someone who’s already married (and hasn’t gotten a divorce) because they don’t perceive the first marriage to be legitimate… and then claim the state is discriminating against them for failing to recognize the second marriage. I mean, it could get very Henry VIII (minus the beheadings) if allowed to wade too far into the weeds. Also, with respect to how they handle kids. For example, they can’t refuse to call a same-sex parent of a student at a Catholic school to come and pick them up, or to authorize medical care, and they also can’t bar students because of the relationships of their parents (it has nothing to do with the student, and thereby violates the rights of the child).

That’s where I’d go with that, but not make too much of it… no point finding so many exceptions and unlikely problems that it gives everyone cold feet because of “what if”s. I honestly think most of this will work out just fine in the end.

Timothy Kincaid

February 1st, 2012

andrew, good points re the remarriage but I think that the marriage licensing process would handle that. As for kids at catholic school, I suspect that few will be hardline about it if for no other reason than that refusing to recognize a parent is as much a headache for the school as the parent. I tend to agree: maybe we can’t get perfect but we can get now. I’ll take now.


February 1st, 2012

What’s the context here….does the state license churches to run premarital counselling programs? Or is it just worries over being asked to and violating nondiscrimination laws?


February 2nd, 2012

Timothy, you know and I know that we NEVER had 25 Democrats. We only had 23 committed. That’s why we were so hard pressed to round up a couple of Republican’s to support support the bill. The way you crossed out 25 and replaced with 24 makes it look as if one of the Democrats who promised support reneged when in fact we picked up one ADDITIONAL Democrat’s support when the vote was taken.

Timothy Kincaid

February 2nd, 2012


The first report I saw only showed three republicans so I had to correct it later. See where Fain is crossed out and both him and Hill added?

Geez, I’m not dissing your beloved party.


February 2nd, 2012

You’re nothing if not clever and consistent Timothy. Another one of your pissy, defensive responses without actually addressing what I pointed out in my comment.

Don’t worry, I’ll stay out of your sandbox so that you can play undisturbed.

Don’t bother responding; I won’t.

Timothy Kincaid

February 2nd, 2012


You aren’t making sense. The vote was 28-21 and I first heard of 3 republicans who voted affirmatively. Simple math says that 25 Dems made up the rest. Then a later report said four so I corrected the commentary.

When revising in a blog, unless it’s just a matter of minutes, protocol is to strike the earlier words and amend but leave up the striked language.

Somehow you see this as some insult. You are mistaken.

Leave A Comment

All comments reflect the opinions of commenters only. They are not necessarily those of anyone associated with Box Turtle Bulletin. Comments are subject to our Comments Policy.

(Required, never shared)

PLEASE NOTE: All comments are subject to our Comments Policy.


Latest Posts

The Things You Learn from the Internet

"The Intel On This Wasn't 100 Percent"

From Fake News To Real Bullets: This Is The New Normal

NC Gov McCrory Throws In The Towel

Colorado Store Manager Verbally Attacks "Faggot That Voted For Hillary" In Front of 4-Year-Old Son

Associated Press Updates "Alt-Right" Usage Guide

A Challenge for Blue Bubble Democrats

Baptist Churches in Dallas, Austin Expelled Over LGBT-Affirming Stance

Featured Reports

What Are Little Boys Made Of?

In this original BTB Investigation, we unveil the tragic story of Kirk Murphy, a four-year-old boy who was treated for “cross-gender disturbance” in 1970 by a young grad student by the name of George Rekers. This story is a stark reminder that there are severe and damaging consequences when therapists try to ensure that boys will be boys.

Slouching Towards Kampala: Uganda’s Deadly Embrace of Hate

When we first reported on three American anti-gay activists traveling to Kampala for a three-day conference, we had no idea that it would be the first report of a long string of events leading to a proposal to institute the death penalty for LGBT people. But that is exactly what happened. In this report, we review our collection of more than 500 posts to tell the story of one nation’s embrace of hatred toward gay people. This report will be updated continuously as events continue to unfold. Check here for the latest updates.

Paul Cameron’s World

In 2005, the Southern Poverty Law Center wrote that “[Paul] Cameron’s ‘science’ echoes Nazi Germany.” What the SPLC didn”t know was Cameron doesn’t just “echo” Nazi Germany. He quoted extensively from one of the Final Solution’s architects. This puts his fascination with quarantines, mandatory tattoos, and extermination being a “plausible idea” in a whole new and deeply disturbing light.

From the Inside: Focus on the Family’s “Love Won Out”

On February 10, I attended an all-day “Love Won Out” ex-gay conference in Phoenix, put on by Focus on the Family and Exodus International. In this series of reports, I talk about what I learned there: the people who go to these conferences, the things that they hear, and what this all means for them, their families and for the rest of us.

Prologue: Why I Went To “Love Won Out”
Part 1: What’s Love Got To Do With It?
Part 2: Parents Struggle With “No Exceptions”
Part 3: A Whole New Dialect
Part 4: It Depends On How The Meaning of the Word "Change" Changes
Part 5: A Candid Explanation For "Change"

The Heterosexual Agenda: Exposing The Myths

At last, the truth can now be told.

Using the same research methods employed by most anti-gay political pressure groups, we examine the statistics and the case studies that dispel many of the myths about heterosexuality. Download your copy today!

And don‘t miss our companion report, How To Write An Anti-Gay Tract In Fifteen Easy Steps.

Testing The Premise: Are Gays A Threat To Our Children?

Anti-gay activists often charge that gay men and women pose a threat to children. In this report, we explore the supposed connection between homosexuality and child sexual abuse, the conclusions reached by the most knowledgeable professionals in the field, and how anti-gay activists continue to ignore their findings. This has tremendous consequences, not just for gay men and women, but more importantly for the safety of all our children.

Straight From The Source: What the “Dutch Study” Really Says About Gay Couples

Anti-gay activists often cite the “Dutch Study” to claim that gay unions last only about 1½ years and that the these men have an average of eight additional partners per year outside of their steady relationship. In this report, we will take you step by step into the study to see whether the claims are true.

The FRC’s Briefs Are Showing

Tony Perkins’ Family Research Council submitted an Amicus Brief to the Maryland Court of Appeals as that court prepared to consider the issue of gay marriage. We examine just one small section of that brief to reveal the junk science and fraudulent claims of the Family “Research” Council.

Daniel Fetty Doesn’t Count

Daniel FettyThe FBI’s annual Hate Crime Statistics aren’t as complete as they ought to be, and their report for 2004 was no exception. In fact, their most recent report has quite a few glaring holes. Holes big enough for Daniel Fetty to fall through.