14 responses

  1. Manheart
    October 5, 2012

    Well, since the good Archbishop likely considers the Episcopal Bishop an apostate and provocateur(what with the open letter thing) why are we surprised by any of this?

  2. Hunter
    October 5, 2012

    Nothing says “heavy handed” like the behavior of a Roman Catholic bishop.

    I suspect the only misunderstanding was Cordileone and his staff thinking that Bishop Andrus would just keep quiet about it.

  3. F Young
    October 5, 2012

    I can sort of understand why the Catholic Archbishop would be upset, and even take retaliatory measures, about the Episcopal Bishop trying to “steal his flock,” as he probably saw it.

    On the other hand, I recall that the Catholic Church made special concessions to steal Episcopal priests in the UK.

    I’m glad that the Episcopal bishop did not retreat silently, which is unusual.

    It looks like there could be a vigorous competition between the two churches for the gay faithful, which is an unusually advantageous position for them.

    Catholic laiety and clergy who are gay should seriously consider moving to the Episcopal Church. The two churches are very similar, except the Episcopal Church is way less homophobic and it owes no allegance to the Pope, which are two big plusses if you ask me.

  4. Hyhybt
    October 5, 2012

    Childish.

    Especially when the arrangements appear to mean he was invited. At the very least, they’d deliberately given the impression he was welcome, when they easily could instead have said they’d rather he wasn’t there.

  5. Soren456
    October 6, 2012

    They did it. And when they were called on it, they lied about it.

    Off to a great start, huh?

  6. John Ozed
    October 6, 2012

    You should have brought him a bottle of booze Bish.

  7. Charles
    October 6, 2012

    Apparently, Sal’s sense of humility and appreciation of his own humanity after the little DUI incident has at last worn off.

  8. Donny D.
    October 6, 2012

    This wasn’t a good move on Cordileone’s part. There are a fair number of gay Episcopalians here in town, as well as I’m sure some very wealthy, powerful, mostly straight Episcopalians who I suspect have a lot more to say about what goes on in this town than most residents. The grassroots Episcopalians that I’ve known here were a relatively staid crowd who weren’t apt to jump on a picket line at a moment’s notice. But generally, when you finally get staid people riled at you, it’s worse than pissing off the volatile.

    I’m not sure what Cordileone was thinking with this, but I get the impression he doesn’t have a good grasp of local church politics. He may also not yet understand how small a town this really is.

    I wonder to what degree, if any, his actions are being encouraged by those above him in the Catholic hierarchy?

    Everything I’ve written above presupposes that he or his archdiocese won’t come up with a convincing apology to Rev. Andrus.

  9. Donny D.
    October 6, 2012

    Timothy Kincaid wrote,

    Cordileone may feel that the Vatican’s favor guarantees adoration from the public.

    From the Catholic public, yes, and a buffer against all those awful gay activists. But he’s miscalculated if he thinks all local Catholics will love him no matter what. And his powerful supporters in New York and Rome are very far away, while his harshest critics exist in high concentrations within ten miles of him.

  10. Donny D.
    October 6, 2012

    F Young wrote,

    It looks like there could be a vigorous competition between the two churches for the gay faithful, which is an unusually advantageous position for them.

    Catholic laiety and clergy who are gay should seriously consider moving to the Episcopal Church. The two churches are very similar, except the Episcopal Church is way less homophobic and it owes no allegance to the Pope, which are two big plusses if you ask me.

    I think you’re three decades late with this. When Karol Wojtyla, aka John Paul II, was Pope, the Catholic church pushed gay Catholic organizations away from it, including by not allowing them to meet on any of its property. I haven’t seen any big thawing of relations toward gay Catholics since then (though I could have missed soemthing), so I don’t think the Catholic church much cares about gaining any gay parishioners.

    There has been a steady draining of gay Catholics over to the Episcopal church for some time now. I’m told the “Anglo-Catholic” tendency of Episcopalianism is especially appealing to gay male ex-Catholics due to its “high church” services and places of worship.

  11. TomTallis
    October 7, 2012

    Don Cordileone has also announced that gay Catholics who are sexually active, even if monogamous, will not be allowed to take communion.

    MHR Church in the Castro will quickly empty out, while St John’s and (a little further away) St Gregory Nyssan can expect some new parishioners.

    No self-respecting gay Christian should put up with the crap Don Cordileone is dishing out.

  12. Donny D.
    October 7, 2012

    Here’s a good article about Cordileone’s appointment and the Diocese of San Francisco’s history of reaching out to gay Catholics:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/us/san-francisco-catholics-see-strict-message-on-gays-in-choice-of-new-leader.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

    Most Holy Redeemer Church in the Castro district is discussed also.

  13. Regan DuCasse
    October 7, 2012

    The Cozza family are very public gay supportive Catholics in Petaluma and a lot of their political action takes place in SF. I’m thinking they still are Catholics. It wouldn’t surprise me if they changed their affiliation.
    F Young, makes a great point. I was raised Episcopalian for all the reasons FY states.
    My family wanted us kids raised in as open a church as possible. One that has evolved a great deal to include FEMALES in leadership roles.
    We do have a lot of similarity with the CC. The solemnity of ceremony and circumstance, but with a lot less of the exclusion.

    I spent nearly as much time in temple with my best friends family as when I went to church.
    I remember when the rabbinical college accepted is fist females as well as women cantors. Close to the time the Episcopal church was doing it.

    BTW,Bsp. John Shelby Spong is one of my clerical heroes.

  14. Coxhere
    October 8, 2012

    How will this guy enforce his no-communion-rule on the Gay, unfaithful in the flock? It’s stupid to proclaim something that’s unenforceable. The only consequences of such a proclamation is to further alienate human beings from his church.

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