Box Turtle Bulletin
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobby“Now you must raise your children up in a world where that union of man and box turtle is on the same legal footing as man and wife…”
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobbyMay 31st, 2013
Today is the last day for the Illinois House to vote for marriage equality. If you would like to watch to see it happen (or not, God forbid) here’s a link to the live website:
http://new.livestream.com/blueroomstream/events/2135841
We are watching for Senate Bill 10
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Lindoro Almaviva
May 31st, 2013
I have a feeling we will be watching for this until the winters solstice. These people are in no hurry to tackle this issue. Lets hope a concerned effort is also brought for prominent gay donors to seal shut their wallets to IL democrats. Seems like the only way to get them to do anything is by refusing them money.
Mark F.
May 31st, 2013
Vote postponed to November.
Mark F.
May 31st, 2013
I blame the anti-gay black churches for this setback.
Timothy Kincaid
May 31st, 2013
Sadly, reports are that the entire African-American Caucus – with, I believe, one exception – demonstrated that they believe that inborn attributes of people actually do entitle some people to more rights than others. I don’t think that was a well reasoned conclusion.
Ironically, to the best of my recollection, gay politicians have without fail supported racial equality.
The bright point is, I guess, that the anti-gay black vote is not nationwide and that prominent African-Americans have fought hard for our rights. It’s just so frustrating that the reason given for denying equality in Illinois is race.
Matt
June 1st, 2013
Three words describe this debacle- “Total leadership failure”.
Josh
June 2nd, 2013
“they believe that inborn attributes of people actually do entitle some people to more rights than others. I don’t think that was a well reasoned conclusion.”
Well, it’s tough to philosophize in this way, at least consistently. Certainly a severely mentally handicapped person shouldn’t have the right to drive a car, for instance, even though being severely mentally handicapped can definitely be inborn. Psychopaths might fall in the same category. Wouldn’t it be horrible to have a need to hurt people that’s as instinctive and strong as seeking out same-sex relationships is for us? But I don’t want society to be completely accepting of psychopaths, yet I do want society to be completely accepting of my thing.
Anywho, I’m really disconnected from “black culture” personally, so I suppose I’m not qualified to comment on what causes the rather strong opposition to same-sex marriage from the black community. I’m sure it’s not minute bits of logic, though. Most people frankly seem too stupid to think that way. Some sort of gut reaction/”what do people I care about think” is what people follow, in my experience. Slogans like, “children need a mother and a father” can be really helpful in helping people justify their positions (even to themselves), but an almost entirely emotional response is fine for a lot of people. A pack of young black guys saying something was “fucking gay” comes to mind; they certainly weren’t interested in serious reasoning with whatever they were talking about. The pack leader just wanted to assert dominance, he didn’t really seem to care about whatever it was that much.
But, I try not to think that way. Sometimes I do wonder why gay people should have the right to marry. That I want to have that right is not enough, of course. Ultimately my reasoning is that the straight relationships I’m aware of don’t seem different in any essential way from gay ones, so there’s no good reason to differentiate the two in this case. Put another way, the distinction seems unmotivated, so it can’t hope to survive the test of time when new generations of people will determine with less and less influence from us how to act. If indeed we’re at the very start of human civilization–say it lasts a million years–in a heartbeat homophobia will be gone, like the luminiferous aether. Of course I’ll be dead, but that’s how it goes.
Sorry for rambling.
Regan DuCasse
June 2nd, 2013
I personally can’t stand it when a hetero person keeps insisting that gay people can choose NOT to be gay and shouldn’t be.
My teeth start grinding when a gay person has to ARGUE that point with someone who couldn’t possibly know what someone else feels, and doesn’t want to.
Even if you ask someone hetero what it would take for THEM to change their orientation, they won’t answer or are stumped. And STILL think that somehow gay people have magical powers to do just about anything with their sexuality, except easily change the minds of someone who knows nothing about being gay.
And the height of hypocrisy, is to defend prejudice of homosexuality because sexuality is a behavior and deserves no protections or rights.
All the while the people who say it, defend their entirely chosen behavior of religious belief as a right to be protected.
Because black people have in VERY recent history, been maligned and misrepresented to the public, a social stigma that fueled Jim Crow, it’s fair to believe they’d be empathetic with gay people.
And there is no reason not to believe that.
But there is a persistent and frustrating disconnect that occurs and at it’s foundation of course, would be religious.
But even religious belief has at it’s core a responsibility when doing harm to another human being.
More frustrating still, is the consistent rationalization that gay people differ in that they DESERVE the harm they receive.
Trust that I’m very disappointed in the black folks that lack perception on this.
Eventually though, such things require emotional intelligence and the ability to be introspective.
And a lot of people just don’t have that, or the intellectual curiosity, if not courtesy to even ask themselves if they could be wrong and a gay person be right about what they know of themselves.
Robert
June 2nd, 2013
I don’t think the anti-gay black churches are any different than the anti-gay white churches. Most of the memberships of both types of churches are in fact that elderly group that by and large, across race, religious affiliation, and other attributes are simply not ever going to be in favor of it.
And just because a “race” is traditionally discriminated against doesn’t mean they won’t themselves be discriminatory in their practices. There is ample racism in the LGBT community, not to mention trans-phobia, and gender issues. The very reliogous amongst us are not ever really going to be in our camp until the older ones simply die off. I’m always perplexed why people think that just because someone else experienced discrimination that they in turn won’t be discriminatroy. History has proven time and again that the oppressed often become the oppressor, and the discriminated against often trun to their own brand of discrimination.
When we eliminate the discrimination that occurs in our own community then we can cry about those other discriminated against people who in turn discriminate. It really isn’t that unusual.
Chitown kev
June 3rd, 2013
and yet another (white gay…well, predominately, anyway) blog that wants to solely blame the black caucus.
and none of you want to hold uncommitted or no voting white Dems to account.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/02/1213152/-Who-and-Where-Are-the-Democratic-Representatives-Holding-Up-Marriage-in-Illinois
Timothy Kincaid
June 4th, 2013
Kev, you have it partly right.
I do want to blame the black caucus not only for having so few who were willing to stand for equality, but also for standing out as one of the nation’s few black caucuses that hasn’t evolved. If the black leaders and reps in Maryland and DC can grow, then Illinois should feel shame.
However, I – and many others – are especially pissed off at the white gay man who chose to protect his party -and hence his power- by shielding anti-gays from exposure. All the “next year” statements in the world can’t hide the fact that he put protecting his political cronies above equality for his fellow gay people.
And that is far far worse than being slow to evolve.
Timothy Kincaid
June 4th, 2013
Oh, and thanks for the link.
Robert
June 4th, 2013
I find it awfully hard to “blame the black caucus” when the NAACP and other major organizations came out in favor of marriage equality. It’s sort of like blaming the entire republican party for acts of Michelle Bachmann and the far right tea party. Funny how easy it is to blame one demographic as a whole while defending against the same tactics used against you.
There are many religous people in BOTH parties and sometimes even the liberals go against the grain due to that influence. Blamming ALL black people for the acts of a portion of a racial groups activity is a pretty heinous thing.
And until the republicanparty removes marriage inequality from it’s platform, then I guess we have every right to blame the entire republican party for that behavior.
There are pro and anti gay rights people in both parties, so if we want to blame one “caucus” for the actions of a portion then we have to blame everyone.
Timothy Kincaid
June 4th, 2013
Robert,
Were you addressing me?
Robert
June 4th, 2013
Timothy, I was addressing the new issue brought forth, is that a problem?
Timothy Kincaid
June 4th, 2013
Not at all.
Chitown Kev
June 4th, 2013
FYI, there is a probable vote tally of specifically the black caucus
Here’s the breakdown:
YES
Ken Dunkin, Chicago
Esther Golar, Chicago
Chris Welch, Hillside
La Shawn Ford, Chicago
Christian Mitchell, Chicago
Rita Mayfield, Waukegan
Al Riley, Olympia Field
Camille Lilly, Chicago
Arthur Turner, Chicago
Marcus Evans, Chicago
Elgie Sims, Jr., Chicago
NO
Monique Davis, Chicago
Mary Flowers, Chicago
Eddie Jackson, East St. Louis
Charles Jefferson, Rockford
UNDECIDED
Thaddeus Jones, Calumet City
Jehan Gordon-Booth, Peoria
Will Davis, East Hazel Crest
Derrick Smith, Chicago
Andre Thapedi, Chicago
http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/Dont-Thank-Or-Blame-Black-Legislators-For-Killing-Gay-Marriage-209789911.html#ixzz2VB16q4A
the Black caucus was more on the side of marriage equality than the (mostly white) downstate DEMOCRATIC caucus)…
Chitown Kev
June 4th, 2013
By the way, I don’t think that calling the vote was Harris’s call. That was Madigan’s call.
Chitown Kev
June 4th, 2013
and IIRC, ALL of those in the black caucuses in Maryland and DC did not vote for marriage equality.
New York was the only place that happened. and even that took doing a do over.
Timothy Kincaid
June 4th, 2013
Kev, thanks for the info.
I was under the impression that it was only LaShawn Ford that was a yes vote. I’m glad to be wrong on this one.
As for Maryland and DC, the black caucus wasn’t universally in support, but they could have held it up and didn’t. The news accounts that I read implied that in Illinois it was the black vote that was the problem.
Of course, that was the Big Headline Story so I’m happy to hear that it was more hype then substance. And I’ve not had time to really delve into the details, sadly.
Chitown Kev
June 4th, 2013
actually, there were black legislators in Maryland that went through all sorts of drama the first time the bill came up.
and while the black caucus in NY was very supportive both times remember Shirley “not for a million dollars tax-free” Huntley
Chitown Kev
June 4th, 2013
it’s the largely white downstate caucus that’s the problem in Illinois.
Even on that list of black legislators, look at the list of no and uncommitted voters.
Will Davis does, I believe, personally support marriage equality but he (like Rita Mayfield) is receiving a lot of pressure from pastors.
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