The Bigoted Benham Boys

Rob Tisinai

May 7th, 2014

I was (and still am) disturbed by the pressure for Eich’s resignation and yet am thrilled that HGTV has decided not to air a show on flipping houses with the Benham twins.

I clearly do not have all the answers.

I’m tempted to write more on this. Few things are more intellectually stimulating than finding what looks to be a contradiction in your own thoughts and feelings — but that doesn’t mean other people will be as enthralled. And I don’t want to turn this blog into All-Eich-All-the-Time. Let me know if there’s interest and I’ll go there.

enough already

May 7th, 2014

I really don’t see much similarity between the twins and Eich – they’ve actively called for killing gays, he’s just a garden-variety hateful bigot.
Not quite the same thing.

Still, if you want to voice your conflicts, please do. I don’t agree with you on christian matters very often, but I always appreciate the depth of your intellect.

Steve

May 7th, 2014

Just more patented BTB hypocrisy.

Bose in St. Peter MN

May 7th, 2014

I’m good with LGBT communities serving as living proof that hearty discussion (including disagreement) is a healthy, forward-moving thing. We need not be bound by a quest for unanimity given that bringing people to the table to understand all of the needs and hopes is just as important.

In some circles, community self-examination is taken as a terrible thing (see some of the Christian reactions to the Vines book, as a starter).

It strikes me as worthwhile to think about how the Benham family story is similar/different to the Eich story (as well as the Duggar story).

CPT_Doom

May 7th, 2014

Bose in St. Peter – what is the Duggar story? Other than that TLC continues to promote an anti-gay family with a son who works for a hate group? (and, yes, I would fully support a boycott to get those people off the air).

As for the HGTV news, what I didn’t understand was the point of the show. They already have two hot twins working with people to find a fixer upper – it’s called “Property Brothers.” As far as I know, those twins don’t like to hate on their neighbors.

Adam

May 7th, 2014

Speaking personally, I’m weary of reading posts here that insist on mischaracterizing the Eich affair as one about politics and opinion, and feel like that would likely be your frame with a comparison to these loons.

I’m also not terribly interested in reading more post-hoc rationalizations for previous “poor Brendan Eich” arguments and that loathsome statement from you all, David Blankenhorn, Ken Mehlman, and Charles Murray.

That said, if you had an honest take on Eich that didn’t unfairly demonize the LGBTQ community as some sort of pitchfork wielding mob and beatify someone who sought to wield the power of the state to erase my rights, then I’d be interested in reading it.

Spunky

May 7th, 2014

I appreciate that you publicly question your own reasoning. I’m sure it will lead to clarification (for everyone) about the actual motivation for your beliefs on this subject.

Perhaps the only positive thing to come out of the incidents involving Duck Dynasty, Eich, Sterling, and the Benham twins is that we can figure how we really feel, and why.

For what it’s worth, based on what you’ve wrote about these four incidents, my guess is that you tolerate anti-gay views up to a point, but that if a certain view is so extreme that either a) it has clear effects on the person’s company, or b) the view is so offensive that the person is indisputably a bigot, then that person can and should be removed.

Eric Payne

May 7th, 2014

CPT_Doom,

Ah, but those twins are Canadian, and at least one of them gives off that “vibe” — dying his hair and wearing those tight jeans — while these twins are 100% ‘Merican, where a dollar is a dollar and not some Canadian dollar that you don’t know how much it’s worth. Plus, Canada is cold, but the ‘Merican Carolina’s are nice an’ toasty so that every once in a while it coudda shown the boys in their board shorts on the beach play in’ volleyball an’ scorpion’ out some babes in bikinis.

esurience

May 7th, 2014

I’m definitely interested in how you manage to reconcile this.

It seems to me that you can either argue that business decisions should be based on nothing more than business considerations, or you can argue that it’s okay for morality to enter into business decisions.

You can try to argue that pressuring Mozilla to oust Eich was morally wrong but that (hypothetical) pressure applied to HGTV to oust the Benham brothers wouldn’t be — but I’m skeptical you can make a good case for that.

My position is that there’s never been widespread principled opposition to businesses applying morality to their business decisions. Rather, people have just objected to the particular morality of the business, but have sometimes disingenuously claimed that it wasn’t about the particulars.

It’s very convenient for people to make that claim, because the subject of morality is difficult to argue about. It’s far easier to appeal to a black-and-white principle and pretend that you think businesses shouldn’t fire anyone for anything that doesn’t affect the bottom line of the business. But, again, I think almost no one genuinely believes this, despite their claims.

vergil arma

May 7th, 2014

don’t worry. you’ve already lost your credibility.

Merv

May 7th, 2014

I’ll take a stab at it. The twins are show business personalities, and the private lives of show business personalities have always been relevant because their personality IS the product, and if it turns off the audience it affects the bottom line. But, what many of us have been trying to tell you for weeks is that CEOs of modern corporations have also become personalities of a sort (Lee Iacocca, Donald Trump, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, etc.), and their personal image is a reflection of the image of the company. If they alienate their audience (consumers, partners, job recruits), then they can affect the bottom line. I don’t see why that’s hard to understand. It’s a legitimate connection.

Nathaniel

May 7th, 2014

Rob, I understand your feelings on the matter, and would love to see a writer better than I am try to parse out those feelings and discover any internal inconsistencies. Also, in spite of living in NC, I have never heard of the Benhams, and wouldn’t mind more information. My partner and I enjoy HGTV when we can watch it, so learning more about this situation, even if not Eich comparisons are made, would be interesting.

Rob Tisinai

May 7th, 2014

I ought to make it clear I’m not sure I can reconcile this inconsistency, so if anyone thinks I’ll be coming back with pat and easy answers, you’ll be disappointed. It’s actually the difficulty (on my part, at least) that makes this interesting and worth contemplating.

Eric Payne

May 7th, 2014

Rob, Not being able to reconcile an inconsistency only makes you human; you should be commended for simply acknowledging the inconsistency.

Nathaniel

May 7th, 2014

I fully agree with Eric’s last comment. It is informative to merely acknowledge and accept such inconsistencies.

vergil arma

May 7th, 2014

the real problem is the poor political judgment you displayed in signing on to a petition/letter that is and will continue to be used unjustly against the lgbt community by big anti-gay to further the highly dubious gay mafia meme. especially when your reasoning is so clouded. that’s what has damaged your reputation and your credibility. at least corvino admitted his hesitancy in signing since he felt the eich case was not so clear. you instead doubled down. corvino, though, injured himself by subsequently proclaiming rauch’s insipid and easily refuted arguments as “deft”. surprising for a philosophy professor. there’s something going on with you guys that’s not quite right. and that’s troubling.

Eric Payne

May 7th, 2014

Of course, though, Rob… I also agree with vergil.

If McCaskill’s claims had not fallen so quickly after the Mozilla brouhaha, and if HGTV had decided, instead, to double down on what could have been their Duck Dynasty Flippers show instead of cancelling it… what was you first reaction when you heard about the private pecadilloes of the Benham boys?

Was your first reaction one of: “Eh. They’re entitled to their own opinion,” “I’ll never watch HGTV, again,” “I’ll never watch any Scripps show again, including Food Network,” or something in-between?

Rob Tisinai

May 7th, 2014

Eric, I love HGTV and think they probably offer more gay-positive media than any other major cable outlet, so my first reaction was, “Huh? Did they know about their past? I hope they don’t go through with the show. What’s happening with it now?”

etseq

May 7th, 2014

I give Rob props for being the only BTB blogger to consistently engage with the commenters here and to finally acknowledge that the Dissent meme isn’t as “principled” as the authors of that letter declared in the most unctuous, self-righteous, and gay shaming way possible. Timothy has just been his usual passive-aggressive, contrarian/libertarian, self. Jim has shown up to scold us for punctuation and comment policy violations but hasn’t really engaged.

Maybe there is hope for this blog yet but if I were in their shoes, I would begin by removing my name from that public statement (how anyone could sign a letter with Charles [blacks are genetically inferior] Murray is beyond me)….

JohnAGJ

May 7th, 2014

The difference I see is that Eich was forced out, or however you wish to characterize it, for a political donation even though he never expressed anti-gay animus nor even made a sideline career out of it. The Benham Boys made several public speeches expressing such animus. I don’t care about the Eichs of the world who can’t reconcile SSM with their religious beliefs but I do about those who flat-out attack us just for being gay as spawns of Satan or other such demonizing nonsense.

Rob Tisinai

May 7th, 2014

Hmm. Not quite so fast etseq. All I’ve said so far is that I’ve got some responses that strike me as contradictory. Not sure how it’s going to play out in my mind as I pursue it (it’s that uncertainty that makes me want to pursue it).

Ryan

May 7th, 2014

Well, I disagreed with your opinion on Eich, but even so I don’t see an inconsistency. From what I’ve read of these brothers, their rhetoric about gay people is very nasty and goes far beyond a donation to an anti-gay marriage group.

esurience

May 7th, 2014

More for you to chew on, Rob:

Iowa Paper Fires Editor For Blog Post Accusing ‘gaystapo’ of ‘rewriting the bible’

Merv

May 7th, 2014

@JohnAGJ – So you care more about bigoted speech than enacting bigotry into law? I’m just the opposite. I’m almost used to Christians spouting ignorance and hate about gay people. When they start advocating that gay people be discriminated against under the law, that’s what really bothers me. I much prefer a fire and brimstone homophobe who supports legal equality than a seemingly friendly individual who quietly pushes for legal discrimination.

Ryan

May 7th, 2014

@Merv, there is no such thing as a fire and brimstone homophobe who supports legal equality.

Kevin P

May 7th, 2014

Bryan Lowder at Slate wrote a good article the other day about explicit and implicit homophobia. He said he can deal with the outright bigots, the ones who say outrageous things, because they are so few people nowadays who are stupid enough to say such anti-gay words out loud and most of the ones who do are easy to ignore. The people he has issues with are the ones who smile and make small talk and then vote against his rights.

I think maybe this is the crux of Rob’s issue. Its easy to call for the Benham’s removal from HGTV because of their outright anti-gay animus. Were it not for California’s donor laws, we would never have known about Eich’s Prop 8 donation. At the end of the day though, both Eich and the Benham bros are not in favor of SSM. Both Eich and the Benhams took steps to pass laws that prevented SSM and both were successful. But while the Benhams did it loudly with a megaphone, Eich did it silently with a checkbook. For that reason many are willing to give him some slack. I’m not so sure.

Question for Rob: Both Mozilla and HGTV are inclusive places – why it is obvious that the Benhams are not a good fit for HGTV but not that Eich was a bad fit for Mozilla? I doubt that the Benhams would have spent time in their episodes calling out gays and SSM just like Eich wouldn’t have outright discriminated against gays at Mozilla. So why it is good the Benhams are out the door but a bad precedent that Eich is out at Mozilla?

JohnAGJ

May 7th, 2014

Nice baited question, Merv. Eich isn’t Brian Brown, Maggie Gallagher or any of the truly loathsome people who through word and deed helped enact Prop 8. As far as I know he’s never made any statements publicly about SSM nor did he serve on the Boards of any of the pro-Prop 8 groups. He made a donation just like hundreds of others did and presumably joined 7+ million Californians in voting for the measure. I’m not willing to join in a petty vendetta against him or any of those others like him for that reason alone. If he had of taken an active and public role, or even financed the pro-Prop 8 campaign like the Mormons did, I’d be saying something entirely different. I do not see Eich as being the same as the Benham brothers for their deeds differ greatly.

Merv

May 7th, 2014

@Ryan – It seems unlikely that there are many fire and brimstone Christians who support equality for gay people under the law, but it’s certainly possible for them to do so. There exist such Christians who don’t support legal discrimination against Hindus, for example, even though they would probably consider living a “Hindu lifestyle” to be sinful.

JohnAGJ

May 7th, 2014

@Kevin then show some consistency and start going after every single other person who likewise made donations in favor of Prop 8. You won’t I know because Eich was the convenient target, a political tool to use in whipping the others into line. I find the whole thing to be petty, unnecessarily vindictive and frankly poisonous to our politics.

Lucrece

May 7th, 2014

I’m just happy that for now we have one less reality tv show.

Merv

May 7th, 2014

@JohnAGC – I don’t think going after Eich is a petty vendetta. The people going after Eich sincerely believe that helping enshrine discrimination into the law was beyond the pale for someone who wants to be CEO of a major corporation in the Bay Area tech industry. As I made clear on other threads, I’m actually willing to let behavior like his slide, at least for a few more years, but I won’t criticize people who aren’t. I think they have a legitimate viewpoint.

mitchw7959

May 7th, 2014

“Few things are more intellectually stimulating than finding what looks to be a contradiction in your own thoughts and feelings — but that doesn’t mean other people will be as enthralled.”

How true—especially as it relates to the “Freedom to Marry, Freedom to Dissent” ipetition.

It gives me immense pleasure and quiet satisfaction that the self-congratulatory and fawningly gracious olive-branch words (proferred to those who would legislate or use faith-based cultural pressure to force LGBT people back into closets, into insane asylums, or send us to prison) has stalled out as of today at a paltry 247 signatories—far short of even the very modest goal of 1,000.

Perhaps in their gayborhood bubbles, certain gay bloggers and self-selected “leaders” can play parlor games with fellow LGBT citizens’ rights and freedoms, and intellectually detach themselves from the very real dangers posed by those who donate and/or campaign for anti-gay initiatives or those who foment hate speech against our communities.

But the resounding, thudding lack of support for this ill-conceived declaration confirms to me this truth: that the rest of us—who daily are ridiculed by coworkers, endure threats of violence—sometimes even from family members—or who must fear discrimination in employment, housing, or health care due to their sexual orientation or gender identity—are just not that into you.

And we will continue to agitate, agitate, agitate for our civil rights and full inclusion in society no matter how distasteful the means might seem to more privileged “activists.”

Indeed, we are not enthralled at all. And the new reality that anti-gay attitudes are no longer acceptable in high-visibility jobs—at Mozilla, Gallaudet, ESPN South, or HGTV—is not something that calls for self-flagellation, navel gazing, or snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, but celebration and recommitting ourselves to fighting on behalf of the left-behind segments of the LGBT community, both domestically and abroad.

Jay

May 7th, 2014

“I was (and still am) disturbed by the pressure for Eich’s resignation and yet am thrilled that HGTV has decided not to air a show on flipping houses with the Benham twins.”

IN other words, you are utterly inconsistent and sometimes you support the bigots and want to make sure they are protected from the repercussions of their speech and conduct and sometimes you don’t.

Really. You could make a much better case that these odious Benham brothers are being “silenced” than Brendan Eich was.

I just hope that we have reached the point where it is not acceptable for people like this to pretend that their bigotry is just a minor “disagreement.”

Jay

May 7th, 2014

Oh, you can also rush to the defense of the Iowa newspaper editor who was fired for writing about the “gaystapo.” I am sure that he would appreciate it if you signed a petition calling for his reinstatement. You and he can at least commiserate about the horrible “gaystapo.”

L. C. Burgundy

May 8th, 2014

The Benham boys basically were selling their personalities and when it turns out it was accompanied by generous dollops of megaphone-spewed out-and-out bigotry and stereotyping, well their product is probably pretty much worthless to HGTV for obvious reasons. And no one has a right to a reality TV show.

Eich rattled around ineffectively for a few weeks and seemed really lost about what he was supposed to do to deal with what was in all honesty a very minor crisis before he realized he wasn’t actually cut out to be CEO of Mozilla. I think he showed himself the door.

To cry over terrible injustices being done to either – give me a break.

Eric Payne

May 8th, 2014

Rob Tisinai said, in response to my questions:

Eric, I love HGTV and think they probably offer more gay-positive media than any other major cable outlet, so my first reaction was, “Huh? Did they know about their past? I hope they don’t go through with the show. What’s happening with it now?”

OK. Good answer. So, in the case of HGTV/Scripps you were surprised they would give an outlet to a pair of vocal bigots, but hoped HGTV/Scripps would have an awakening to the Benhams’ background and, ultimately, do the “right thing”*, which they did.

But in the case of Mozilla, you didn’t trust the decision of those most effected by the appointment of the new CEO — employees, the Board and the newly appointed CEO, himself — and instead decided there had been a punishment doled out based on political viewpoints.

One was a badly made business decision, quickly rectified after negative input. The other was a poorly vetted job candidate, but rectification was a lengthy process.

As others have pointed out, the Benhams were overt, and even a little over-the-top in their very public displays of animosity toward various minority groups, while the failed CEO merely helped finance the spreading of animosity toward only one minority group.

Would you, seriously, suggest it would be acceptable to take to task Americans for Prosperity in their public undertakings, but give the Koch Brothers a pass in our public “calling out”*?

*Quotation marks (“”) are used to indicate a colloquialism, and not as a direct quote of any other person/entity’s actual statement.

Rob Tisinai

May 8th, 2014

But in the case of Mozilla, you didn’t trust the decision of those most effected by the appointment of the new CEO — employees, the Board and the newly appointed CEO, himself — and instead decided there had been a punishment doled out based on political viewpoints.

Eric, since my first comment on Timothy’s post about the petition, I’ve made it clear that this was not my thinking.

Eric Payne

May 8th, 2014

Rob,

Yes, you did say that, and continue to say that… but you also cannot provide any concrete examples of any other influence/acts by persons (other than the employees, the Board and the CEO, himself) that led to the FTMFTD petition… just generalities and perceptions.

Priya Lynn

May 8th, 2014

Spunky said “I appreciate that you publicly question your own reasoning”.

I do too, that was quite brave of you. When you reveal an imperfection some can’t resist to the opportunity to take advantage of that and dump on you for it rather than admiring your honesty.

Priya Lynn

May 8th, 2014

Ryan said “@Merv, there is no such thing as a fire and brimstone homophobe who supports legal equality.”.

I encountered one recently. They’re rare, but they do exist.

Raymond in ABQ

May 8th, 2014

I have never seen “consistency” enumerated in any list of virtues. And in the same vein, everyone has seen injustices perpetrated under the “rule of law” rubric.

Therefore, I will steal from Justice Potter Stewart and say, “I know bigotry when I see it.”

When bigotry hurts people, when it is unfair, when it can be seen to contribute to the establishment of a hostile environment — then it is time to protest in every way possible.

With that in mind, I would let Eich stay — and give a thumbs up to HGTV’s dismissal of the Benham brothers.

Richard Rush

May 8th, 2014

Here’s their daddy, Flip Benham, on a tirade: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLCwDoiAdZw

The boys’ daddy must be so proud that he raised two sons to be unable or unwilling to express thoughts independent of their True Christianâ„¢ indoctrination. He’s living the dream that every True Christianâ„¢ has for their children. And they say gays are unfit to be parents.

Nicholas

May 8th, 2014

Rob, I’ve got cognitive dissonance holding on line one for you, shall I send it to voicemail or are you ready to face reality?  The corporate world of decision making is fraught with peril, but it is also astonishingly consistent. In a phrase, make money or make room for someone that can.

Brandon Eich couldn’t lead a global technology company around his own self created problem. Whether or not you agree that his donation should be a problem is irrelevant. A CEO’s job is to turn problems around and this one failed where so many convenient solutions were available. A simple ‘I respect the court’s decision’ is just one of many ways to wiggle out.  Think of it as pulling off the ultimate I’m sorry you feel like that and getting away with it.

The NC twins apparently aren’t worth the risk to the network, again, a business decision that sounds like this:  we aren’t sure what you two will say in an unscripted moment and your job is to be pretty and relatable to everyone in unscripted moments. We will be in touch…nothing personal.

Now, should I patch that call through, Pumpkin?

JohnAGJ

May 9th, 2014

Nicholas, you know if you view it solely from a business perspective you do make a good point.

Tom

May 9th, 2014

There is another organization which helps poor families obtain affordable housing. It is called Habitat for Humanity. Here is their link:http://www.habitat.org/
They operate world wide and while they do work with various religions to my knowledge they are not a religious based organization. And I have never heard of them discriminating against anyone for any reason, including an individual’s sexual identity.
Lets tell Home and Garden TV that if they have room on their agenda for a program featuring such exciting activities that this organization should be considered a very strong candidate for that kind of production.
It’s a progressive approach to this issue. It avoids the question, should someone be excluded from anything simply because of some specific aspect of their actions or personal belief which does not coincide with the beliefs of others. Instead it enshrines the positive activities that were to be the basis of that kind of program in the first place. I support those activities and I recognize how affordable housing is a very important issue throughout the world, not just in this country. And that applies to everyone, regardless of their religion, sexual identity or gender, or age, or ethnicity, or…you get the point.

CPT_Doom

May 9th, 2014

Right on Tom – I hadn’t thought of Habitat for Humanity, but what a great subject for a reality show they could be. I know they also require the recipients of their charity to work not only on their own homes, but also to create new homes for others – at least to the extent possible. That would be a good message.

chiMaxx

May 10th, 2014

And my reaction is totally opposite Rob’s. Eich had actually taken action by making a donation. The brothers had just said stuff. Eich was moving up to a position where he not only represented the entire company, he had free rein to change and set policy in either crude or subtle ways that could disadvantage a class of people he had shown himself willing to take action against before in another context. The brothers are just employees with no ability to set policy and therefore should have greater protection for their views.

That’s what bothers me about the joint statement in defense of Eich: It shows there are a whole bunch of people willing to defend the already powerful rather than the truly vulnerable.

chiMaxx

May 10th, 2014

Of course, my not caring could be colored by the fact that I don’t have cable and have never seen any HGTV, while I care passionately about the Open Internet, and want those running it to be for equality and inclusiveness, even as that means running a platform that equally welcomes those who advocate and work for inequality and exclusion.

Nicholas

May 10th, 2014

@JohnAGJ,

Is there a more compelling point of view that should be considered? I know that some will view the business argument as an easy explanation for more overt discrimination in the future, and the Tisanai Manifesto (yes I am calling it that) alludes to that possibility. Based on the examples provided to this discussion community, I cannot disagree more.

High profile positions like C level officers, TV personalities and diversity officers for world class higher education institutions all have a very public component to the role. Privately held beleifs should be kept private if publicity of those beliefs put the mission of the organization at risk.

The Benham boys might end up on Pat Robertson’s CBN channel for all I know. What I do know is that CBN’s leaders will determine if the product will attract viewers and sponsors before a green light is given.

Neil

May 14th, 2014

Fair dues to Emerson and his observation that, “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds”. I see no problem in dealing with these cases of opinions we find obnoxious on a case by case basis.

But it is a fundamental aspect of the operation of justice that like cases be treated alike. In that regard, I’m not sure it’s so foolish to seek out comparisons.

On the matter of justice, I’m optimistic enough to take comfort from Dr King’s observation that the arc of the moral universe bends toward it. He also observed that it’s a long arc, which means we may well still be in for sufferring the consequences of bigoted atitudes.

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