Box Turtle Bulletin
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobby“Now you must raise your children up in a world where that union of man and box turtle is on the same legal footing as man and wife…”
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobbySeptember 3rd, 2015
A federal judge here on Thursday ordered a Kentucky clerk jailed for contempt of court because of her refusal to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples.
The clerk, Kim Davis of Rowan County, was ordered incarcerated after a hearing here before Judge David L. Bunning of Federal District Court. The contempt finding was another legal defeat for Ms. Davis, who has argued that she should not be forced to issue licenses that conflict with her religious beliefs.
“The court cannot condone the willful disobedience of its lawfully issued order,” Judge Bunning said. “If you give people the opportunity to choose which orders they follow, that’s what potentially causes problems.”
Judge Bunning said Ms. Davis would be released once she agreed to comply with his order and issue the marriage licenses.
This is not the result I had hoped for. I was hoping for sanctions, but not jail.
Now Davis will sit in a cell while Mat Staver, her Liberty Counsel attorney, will declare her a martyr. A sizable section of the population will see this as an attack on their faith and the country will again be divided and angry. Politicians love this stuff – division gives power – but it’s not good for the nation’s morale.
Eventually as there is no longer daily news, Davis will fade from attention and will find herself sitting there for no reason whatsoever. And her counsel will be on to the next “victim”.
And in the meantime, still no marriage licenses.
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Dave H
September 3rd, 2015
On the last point (about couples not being able to get licenses), probably not.
The county’s judge executive may issue marriage licenses “in the absence of the county clerk, or during a vacancy in the office.†So if Davis is absent from her position because she has been jailed, couples in her county should be able to obtain marriage licenses unless the county’s judge executive chooses to follow the same path.
Priya Lynn
September 3rd, 2015
Mmmmmm, schadenfreude.
Dave H
September 3rd, 2015
Also, if a GoFundMe campaign hasn’t already been set up for her, that will happen any moment. Thousands of people will contribute to it.
Someday she will be released from jail. She will have faded from the daily news (I hope!). And she will have a lot of money and the satisfaction that she served as “a vessel God has chosen for this time and this place.â€
Priya Lynn
September 3rd, 2015
Gofundme millionaire or not I don’t think this is a win for Davis. She can’t get out of jail until she agrees to issue marriage licenses which will demonstrate it was never a big deal for her to do so in the first place and she’ll have lost on that point. Unless of course she can resign her job without issuing any marriage licenses and get out of jail that way.
SharonB
September 3rd, 2015
Wow! Of course, it will be lost on the rabble that Judge Bunning is an anti-gay marriage George Bush apointee, who nonetheless respects the actual law, not some imaginary law in Davis ‘s head. #respect!
Soren456
September 3rd, 2015
I agree that this will provoke an unwanted recoil.
Even so, if I knew the address, I’d subscribe to a magazine for her.
A monthly.
Timothy Kincaid
September 3rd, 2015
Dave,
thanks for the reminder about the county executive.
As for GoFundMe, they don’t allow campaigns to pay for sanctions or illegal activities.
Priya Lynn
September 3rd, 2015
“I agree that this will provoke an unwanted recoil.”.
Assuming there’s no violence I couldn’t care less. This sends the message that the law is the law and just because you’re a bigot doesn’t mean you don’t have to follow it. I’m sick of people rewarding bigotry by treating bigots with kid gloves. Letting people get away with bigotry just encourages more of it.
gar
September 3rd, 2015
Old nursery rhyme flew into my head:
Take the keys and lock her up,
lock her up,
lock her up.
Take the keys and lock her up,
my fair lady!
Rob
September 3rd, 2015
… and let the martyrdom begin…
Next phase will be the judge ordering the other clerks to issue licences… Timothy, please don’t miss an update on that one.
Ned Flaherty
September 3rd, 2015
The last sentence in this article is incorrect.
At least 3 of the 6 assistant clerks formally promised the judge that they will issue marriage licenses to all couples, starting today.
Jean-Michel
September 3rd, 2015
“Also, if a GoFundMe campaign hasn’t already been set up for her, that will happen any moment. Thousands of people will contribute to it.”
An Indigogo campaign was up until yesterday, when it was pulled for violating practically every rule of the site. It had been up for five days and had raised less than $100 of a $75,000 goal. The same rules that got it yanked from Indiegogo (bans on promoting hate/discrimination and funding illegal activities) also exist at GoFundMe and have been enforced in the past, so she’s gonna have to look elsewhere if she wants that sweet sweet wingnut welfare.
cowboy
September 3rd, 2015
So, let me see if I understand this correctly. Mrs. K. Davis wouldn’t allow the other clerks to issue the licenses?
What she did was inflict her religious tenets on the other clerks?
This whole mess could have been slightly or completely mitigated by some other clerk issuing the licenses?
Whoa. This sure seems orchestrated for some political (read: illogical) purpose. The compulsion to feel persecuted and/or the allure of fame come to mind.
Nathaniel
September 3rd, 2015
cowboy, that isn’t far fetched, but her claim was that, even when one of her assistants issued the license, her name was on it. It was too much to have her name on a license
to commit sodomyfor two people of the same sex to marry.cowboy
September 3rd, 2015
All this hubbub for the want of a little bottle of WhiteOut? They could have accommodated her angst with a little liquid correction and typed another name over hers?
Too easy, huh? Again, this whole kerfuffle was orchestrated by rabble-rousers.
And how could you believe in a god who would send someone to H-E-Double L for giving a piece of paper to some loving couple with your name on it.
Soren456
September 3rd, 2015
@Priya:
I take your point.
Priya Lynn
September 3rd, 2015
Court watchers say the court wanted to send a strong message that you must obey the law, you cannot use your personal beliefs to deny the rights of others. Any attempt to accomodate Davis’s lack of complience would have signaled to employees throughout the nation that they could refuse to do all manner of duties due to their personal beliefs. It would open the floodgates to a horrendous mess.
NancyP
September 3rd, 2015
Judges do not put up with individuals in contempt of court.
That being said, I wish that the judge would point out that she has the option to resign and avoid all penalty.
Jean-Michel
September 3rd, 2015
Indiegogo may have pulled the fundraiser for Davis herself, but you can still contribute to a Super Gay Makeover for Kim Davis!
Timothy Kincaid
September 3rd, 2015
In TOTALLY UNRELATED news, ExpressAir fired a flight attendant because as a convert to Islam she didn’t want to serve alcohol to the passengers. Which is pretty much the job of a flight attendant.
She wanted to keep her job, just not actually do it.
She’s suing. Cuz Religious Freedom, you know.
Priya Lynn
September 3rd, 2015
If it was a Muslim clerk refusing to issue marriage licenses to Christian heterosexual couples you can be sure Davis’s supporters wouldn’t be supporting his or her “religious freedom”, they’d be screaming bloody murder and demanding the Muslim clerk be forced to issue the marriage licenses, be fired, or put in jail.
It’s not about principle or religious freedom for these people, its about special privileges for anti-gay christians.
Timothy Kincaid
September 3rd, 2015
… or deported. Even if she was a fifth generation American.
Neil
September 3rd, 2015
As I understand from the judges commentary on his decision, a fine would likely have proved inadequate to support his ruling. Even without crowdfunding sources, it was on the cards that any fine would be met and the contempt would go on.
I suppose I could extend some sympathy for Davis in that when she took her oath of office, there was no legal recognition of same sex marriage in Kentucky. Though it’s sad her beliefs might prevent her from continuing to uphold her oath following Obergefell, I might have more respect for her commitment to those beliefs were she to accept the consequences of them, resignation from office.
If her oath of office is voided by conflict with religious conviction then she no longer stands by that oath. I don’t see how a judge will let her personally rewrite her job description from County Clerk to Cleric In Charge.
Rob
September 4th, 2015
Isn’t it kind of amazing that god spoke to her in the middle of the night, yet failed to show up to support her in court. Bit of an asshat, really.
Priya Lynn
September 4th, 2015
Neil said “I suppose I could extend some sympathy for Davis in that when she took her oath of office, there was no legal recognition of same sex marriage in Kentucky.”.
No, you shouldn’t extend any sympathy to Davis on that basis:
“Davis has only been in this job a few months. When she took office, it was already widely known that gay marriage would be ruled on shortly. It was also widely speculated that the Supreme Court would rule in favor of marriage equality, especially given the almost unanimous lower court rulings. So, the “hazard” of having to issue same-sex marriage licenses was one she knew was a very real possibility when she took the job. She went into this with eyes wide open.”
Nathaniel
September 4th, 2015
Rachel Held Evans â€@rachelheldevans Sep 3
No one’s being jailed for practicing her religion. Someone’s being jailed for using the government to force others to practice her religion.
eddie
September 5th, 2015
Nathaniel said: Someone’s being jailed for using the government to force others to practice her religion.
that’s not exactly correct. she is in jail for not doing her job. the religious bs was the excuse she used for not do the job.
eddie
September 5th, 2015
Neil said: I suppose I could extend some sympathy for Davis in that when she took her oath of office, there was no legal recognition of same sex marriage in Kentucky.
she has to swear an oat to up hold the laws – that includes old laws that change and new laws to be put forward. It’s not just an oath to uphold the laws that existed only on the day that she swore to uphold the laws. and for sure the swearing to uphold the laws include ALL the laws and not just the ones the god in her head tell her to uphold or disregard.
eddie
September 5th, 2015
Cowboy said – So, let me see if I understand this correctly. Mrs. K. Davis wouldn’t allow the other clerks to issue the licenses?
True and even when some of the other clerks offered to do so, she would not allow it. Kim Davis is a control freak. and now she has lost all control with exception of choosing to change her mind, or stay in jail, or quit. 80 grand a year for saying “fill out this form” tells me she will change her mind. I bet she says god told her it was ok now.
eddie
September 5th, 2015
Jean – Michael said: Indiegogo may have pulled the fundraiser for Davis herself, but you can still contribute to a Super Gay Makeover for Kim Davis!
At last check, I could see that $20 have been contributed. It’s not necessary to contribute more for this very worth cause. Rip Taylor can make her a beauty queen for just $1.98
Eric Payne
September 5th, 2015
@eddie, you say:
No. She is in jail on, essentially, a civil disobedience claim in that she failed to follow the order(s) issued by a court decision. There is no “wrong doing” connected with it.
Think of it this way: Your Mom tells you to mow the lawn. Instead, you go to your Dad… but he tells you to do what your mother says. Then you go to Grandpa, who also tells you to mind your mother. Out of “escape” options, you still won’t cut the grass, which pisses off Mom, who grounds you and sends you to your room. The grounding and restriction is “until (your Mom) say so!”
In this instance, Judge Banning is “Mom,” Kim Davis is “you,” the “lawn” is the order of Judge Banning’s federal court, and “your room” is a jail cell.
rick
September 7th, 2015
I once worked for Aerovironment Inc. They are a military contractor. I am morally disgusted that they make products that spy on people and kill people. EVEN THE “Enemy”. Its wrong to kill. I believe christians call it THE SIXTH COMMANDMENT. I ended up getting very physically ill and while I was on disability, they “Asked me to leave or come back to work immediately” even against doctors orders. I made a choice. I could have gone back… but I left. I dont have the money for fancy lawyers such as the object of our discussion. And I did not make a big ta-do about it. And not once did I try to make them stop killing people because it is against my own moral code. I ended up working for a company that makes oncology capital equipment. “CyberKnife” if any of you are unfortunate to have cancer or know someone that does. My dad passed away from brain cancer while I worked there. I have since met many people who have been treated with a product that I contributed to, and they thanked me over and over. Much more rewarding than killing people. I made a moral decision, so can she. So can YOU! (Everyone)
eddie
September 7th, 2015
Eric Pyne – i think this is kind of the same- except my mom only tells me to mow the lawn becuase it has already been extablished that mowing the law is my job. I know it is my job and I already promised to mow the lawn but then i made up an excuse not to mow the lawn. Basically i failed to mow the lawn and now that’s why i have to go to my room – becuae i didn’t do my job.
Timothy Kincaid
September 7th, 2015
The one difference is that if you refuse to mow the lawn, you probably are not going to get your weekly allowance from Mom and Dad. But Kim continues to get her salary.
eddie
September 7th, 2015
Timothy K – that is true. Mom and Dad are not that dumb. As for laws and rules of why Kim Davis is still getting paid for not doing her job, I cannot answer but I’d be willing to not do her job for half the price.
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