No, Syrian refugees are not a gay issue

Timothy Kincaid

November 23rd, 2015

It seems to me that sometimes gay activists confuse causes, assuming that their worldview is the only valid perspective that can be held by a gay person and thus that any cause they support is a gay cause. And those who disagree can be immediately and vehemently denounced as self-loathing homocons and quislings, worthy of derision and scorn.

But not all gay people have the same experiences, perspectives, or lifestyles. And competing interests or different values are not resolved by a shared sexual orientation.

We may see disputes over resource allocations or military action without demanding uniformity or laying charges of homophobia. But when it comes to social issues, there is often a presumption that all gay people must lean left and that failure to do so is betrayal of the gay community.

This is irrational. There is no logical basis for demanding conformity among the gay community on issues that do not have a direct or largely disproportionate impact on gay people.

Abortion is not a gay issue. Immigration is not a gay issue. Gun control is not a gay issue.

There are within each of these areas some arguments that speak to the community. Asylum based on sexual orientation, for example, is highly relevant and specific to the community. And as we get closer to identifying genetic markers for orientation, we may find ourselves facing difficult questions about abortion.

But, as a matter of belief and policy, there is nothing about orientation that dictates ideology. And gay=liberal is a false narrative that not only leads to disappointment for activists, but does a disservice to the roughly one-quarter of gay citizens who hold more conservative positions. (And I suspect that for some of the more vocal activists, the number of LGBT persons in disagreement soars to large majorities.)

To get around this fallacy, they propose another: that because some gay people are impacted by a policy, then therefore their response is the gay response and any other position is homophobia.

Because some immigrants are gay, we must support open borders. Because some gay people are coal miners, we must support a strike. Because some gay people are Palestinian, we must oppose the state of Israel.

What never is mentioned is that gay people are also on the other side of those issues.

Yes, some immigrants are gay, but so are some of the existing residents of nations. Some gay people are coal miners, and some are customers or in management. Some gay people are Palestinian, and some are Israeli.

Obviously, some gay people are impacted positively or negatively whichever way a policy goes and championing one position does not make it any more the gay position than championing its competitor. And it is dishonest to see gay people only on one side and not the other.

Further, we should understand that these efforts can serve as a disservice to our community. They are not steps to protect gay people or to advance our common cause. Rather they are an exploitation of our community, an effort to harness our connections or our political power and employ it for a cause that does not serve all gay people equally.

In the worst of instances, it’s cynicism and self-serving. Activists who can “deliver votes” from their community gain power, influence, and financial advantage. If an activist can turn out gay support, it may be far more advantageous to them personally than to the gay people they claim to represent.

But irrespective of motivation, activists employ it far too frequently. And the latest example, a rather extreme one, comes from Michelangelo Signorelli.

On Friday, the House of Representatives voted to slow the President’s plan of resettling in the United States 10,000 Syrian immigrants fleeing the regime of President Bashar Hafez al-Assad or life under ISIS.

The House vote on the Syrian resettlement program, passing 289-137, reflects shifting sentiment on an issue where emotions have run deep in the aftermath of a deadly terror in Paris last week which left 129 dead. The House bill would require the FBI to create a background check of any refugee who spent time in Syria or Iraq after March 1, 2011.

The measure also called for the heads of the FBI, Department of Homeland Security and National Intelligence to personally vouch that those admitted aren’t a threat, a requirement the White House in its earlier vow to veto the measure called “untenable.”

Among the 25% of House Democrats who voted for the bill were three members of LGBT Caucus: U.S. Reps. Sean Patrick Maloney (D-N.Y.), Jared Polis (D-Colo.) and Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.)

In statements released, the lawmakers indicated differing levels of concern, but mostly took positions that were not in opposition to immigration but rather focused on the assurance provided by greater scrutiny.

“Our nation has long stood as a beacon of freedom, but after the events of the last few weeks some leaders have given into fear and turned their backs on refugees,” said Maloney in a statement he released after the vote. “These actions are reprehensible, and present a false choice between our values and our security. It’s understandable that people are scared, and Americans have a right to know that the process we use to screen refugees will keep us safe. I have faith in our system, and I don’t believe these refugees — the overwhelming majority of whom are women, elderly, and children — threaten our communities or national security. So instead of slowing the program or pausing it, the administration should agree to immediately certify refugees if they pass the current extensive screenings and we should all refocus on actual threats.”

But this response has been deemed entirely unacceptable by Michelangelo Signorelli.

Totally shameful and Victory Fund & Institute should dump them just as it doesn’t accept anti-choice, racist candidates even if they’re LGBT. Equality should be litmus test of anyone in “LGBT Equality Caucus” in Congress. And realize that these individuals voted against desperate LGBT Syrian refugees — there was hope 500 of the refugee spaces would be set aside for them. Congresswoman Kyrsten Sinema is the worst: She was actually an attorney for an Iraqi refugee in ’07, arguing that his vetting was taking too long, over 2 years, discriminated against based on his nationality. Now she votes this way. She’s a total fraud. We don’t need these people folks. Let’s get pro-LGBT, real progressives (on all the issues), gay or straight, in office.

To Signorelli, because “equality” means accepting 10,000 Syrian refugees into the country without personal assurances from the heads of the FBI and Homeland Security that each immigrant has been vetted, this is a gay issue. It’s a litmus test issue which Victory Fund should use to determine whether gay candidates receive support.

That is absurd.

The majority of Americans, perhaps as many as three-quarters, are skeptical about the government’s process of review when it comes to controlling access to the country. And this cannot be simply written off as religious bias – all polls show a vast majority of citizens think that any refugees accepted should not be given preference based on their religious faith, that Christians and Muslims should have the same access.

And among that large majority of Americans who are concerned about possible terrorists infiltrating the refugees are gay people. Real living breathing gay people. And some of them are Democrats and progressives.

But but but there are “desperate LGBT Syrian refugees” so this is a gay issue!

And Equality California has jumped on board.

“Last week’s vote was a victory for ignorance and fear. We are deeply disappointed that the list of ‘ayes’ included members of California’s congressional delegation, including members who have been champions of LGBT civil rights, and several LGBT members of Congress outside of California.

Among the millions of Syrians fleeing their country in fear for their lives are thousands of LGBT people, who face even harsher cruelties if they were to stay than the others, who are fleeing already unspeakable atrocities.

See, it’s a gay issue!!

No. The resettlement of Syrians fleeing the Assad regime or ISIS is not a gay issue. Even if some of the refugees are LGBT.

Though no doubt some here will disagree with me, I do not see this issue as a simple matter.

On the one hand it seems callous and selfish not to come to the aid of a fellow human in distress. On the other, our government has not shown itself to be singularly skilled in detecting and preventing threats. And some, including members of the LGBT Caucus, wish to help those in need but do not find it unreasonable to expect that each refugee be vetted so as to weed out someone who might shoot up a shopping mall or bomb a restaurant.

So how do we respond to those like Signorelli and EQCA who seek to co-opt the gay community for their position?

First, we should look at this in perspective.

At a dinner I attended last year, Equality California announced that would be shifting some of their focus from gay issues to more general progressive issues such as opposing barriers to immigration and seeking greater power for labor unions. Seen from that perspective, EQCA has narrowed their voice from a representative of gay Californians to speak only for the progressive segment of the gay community.

And Signorelli has clearly illustrated that his greater loyalty is “real progressives (on all the issues)” rather than to inclusion of gays and lesbians among the people’s representatives. As is his right.

Or yours. You have every right to think that only one position is reasonable or humane or just.

You just can’t claim that you speak for all gay people or even that gay people should agree with you because they are gay.

Victory Fund was correct in dismissing Signorelli’s demands. Their purpose is to support the campaigns of LGBT candidates for public office, not advance progressive policies. They are non-partisan and do not base their support criteria on how whether an individual office seeker is in complete agreement with Michelangelo Signorelli, or any other activist.

And policies around the resettlement of Syrian refugees are not a gay issue.

Priya Lynn

November 23rd, 2015

I have no doubt its several times more likely that Syrian refugees coming to the States will be the victim of attacks by christians than it is that some Syrian refugee will attack Americans.

Obama’s proposing just a trickle of Syrian refugees, 10,000 for 2016. Meanwhile Canada with 1/10th the population has committed to settling 25,000 refugees by the end of 2015 and currently 900 per day are entering our country.

Shame on the U.S.

Ben

November 23rd, 2015

The reason all those things are gay issues, is because our being gay gives us a glimpse into life’s unfairnesses. It should open our eyes at how difficult life is for some, and operating under a shared compassion rather than some selfish bubble that only the lucky few can even pretend exists.

Priya Lynn

November 23rd, 2015

Well said Ben.

Raymond

November 23rd, 2015

There are those who believe, quite firmly, that “equality” overrides national borders — as does “Do unto others …”.

Paul Douglas

November 23rd, 2015

I actually agree with you quite a bit here, Timothy. And I often don’t!

NancyP

November 23rd, 2015

I think that people don’t understand that the screening is already a two year process. Why would an operative go through two years of refugee camp if they could get the same thing, short-term access to the US, on a tourist visa? Plus, the US-born population has yielded a fair number of terrorist wannabes.

Lord_Byron

November 23rd, 2015

I don’t see this necessarily as a gay cause, but since we are the undeniable reason that ISIS exists we do, and the rest of the nations who went to war in Iraq, have an obligation to help these people. Had we not gone into Iraq Saddam and the rest of his generals would still be in power, not leading ISIS, and millions of people would not be running for their lives. I can also understand seeing this as a gay issue since we fucked things up for a lot of gay people. Yes, Saddam was a dictator, but the sad thing is that it was better to be gay under these dictators then what is currently happening. We are the reason, as an example, that guys can be thrown off the top of buildings and stoned if they survive; or another example, we are responsible for the militias that would go around looking for gay people and who did such wonderful things as superglue a man’s ass shut and then forced fed him a laxative.

So this may not be a gay issue, but we caused this mess and if we are not going to try and make up for this then conservatives should stop saying they are christians and that they are the party of personal responsibility. Because part of personal responsibility is realizing that your actions have consequences.

Gene in L.A.

November 24th, 2015

When human beings are in distress it’s the business of human beings to assist them. The last time I checked my gay friends and I are also human beings. Injustice is a gay issue, whether gay people are the victims of that injustice or not. As a gay man and a veteran and a 69-year old American I reject the selfishness of those who would temper justice out of fear.

Mark F.

November 24th, 2015

Priya Lynn and Ben, please let us know some things politicians are involved in that aren’t gay issues.

Elaygee

November 24th, 2015

Well said. I’d like to see some of my Gay comrades take in Syrian refugees into their homes and be responsible for their actions should anything happen. That’ll shut them up fast.

Most of the “refugees” aren’t. They are economic migrants invading other countries for money. They pay upwards of $20,000 to smugglers to “get them to Europe” If I had $20,000 in a 3rd world country, you wouldn’t call me a refugee, you’d call me well heeled.

Real Syrian refugees fleeing war have lots of Arab countries near them to go to, only THEY don’t want to go there cause they get no benefits, welfare, homes or free everything.

Lots of good hard working people trying to get into the US including millions of Mexicans, central Americans and South Americans. Let them in legally first. They integrate, work hard, pay taxes, use less benefits than people born here and help us have a future.

CPT_Doom

November 24th, 2015

The problem with the vote in Congress was that it was grounded in baseless fears and bigotry – the claim that, because one terrorist allegedly had a Syrian passport, all Syrian refugees must be tainted by that individual and be considered de facto terrorists. If any group can understand the negative repercussions of such bigotry, it is the LGBT community. It is no different than the trans bathroom myth or the claim that gay men are predators converting young boys by molesting them.

Ben in oakland

November 24th, 2015

I find myself in agreement with you a great deal on this issue Timothy. Of course, as a general principle, as liberal as I am on so many issues, I feel that restricting immigration is a good idea. But in this case, there is a humanitarian issue, as well as a “responsibility” issue. George Bush’s stupidity, and the failure of Congress to act responsibly in accordance with its mandate, led to the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, the destabilizing the entire Middle East. We bear some responsibility for that.

Lord_Byron

November 24th, 2015

CPT,

I’d point out that he did have a syrian “passport,” but I put that in quotes because the item was in fact a forgery. There is currently a booming market for them. We can then add on to the fact that the terrorists who carried out the attacks in Paris recently and the Charlie attacks were european nationals.

Priya Lynn

November 24th, 2015

Mark, I never suggested this was a “gay” issue. I only posted about my concerns about it as a humanitarian.

Gene in L.A.

November 24th, 2015

Elaygee – I’d love to be shown the $20,000 payments widows and orphans–who comprise the majority of Syrian refugees–have paid to get into this or any other country. That would truly be something new under the sun.

Priya Lynn

November 24th, 2015

Yes, I vaguely recall hearing a number somewhere between 1000 and 3000 dollars paid to smugglers to get a family into Europe. I’m pretty sure it was nowhere near 20,000.

SharonB

November 24th, 2015

Okay, by extension, African American Civil Rights issues do not necessarily entail support for glbt eqality? Only gay African Americans should be really concerned?
Glad most others in the civil rights movement didn’t balkanize their sympathy. GLBT rights are human rights, but the reverse is not necessarily true? Kinda tired of the tea party “I got mine, eff you!” attitude on the right, no matter what orientation espouses it.
Show me if I have misunderstood.

MattNYC

November 24th, 2015

I think Ben said it best.

Furthermore, this is not only about equality and fairness, but also about building coalitions.

Abortion is not a “gay” issue, but the ties between reproductive freedom and freedom of sexuality and the fact that Pro-Choice organizations have stood proudly in support of LGBT equality, makes it our issue as well.

Coalitions are vital to achieving high goals–no one succeeds alone and we all stand on teh shoulders of others.

Mark F.

November 24th, 2015

I agree it is a humanitarian issue. However, gay organizations need to keep a narrow focus.

Spunky

November 24th, 2015

It’s a sign of a great discussion when I find myself agreeing with the article and almost every comment.

Eric Payne

November 24th, 2015

You know, if only the leaders of the Wampanoag people had more carefully vetted those Brits…

Ben

November 25th, 2015

SharonB, no you got it exactly right, Timothy, and any other right wing gay person, essentially “have theirs”. And everyone else can shove off.

Additionally: “Abortion is not a gay issue. Immigration is not a gay issue. Gun control is not a gay issue.”

Then why is it that:
The same exact people who want to defund planned parenthood or make abortion outright illegal
AND
The same exact people who want to restrict immigration (despite being immigrants themselves)
AND
The same exact people who want unrestricted gun access, no new regulations or even enforcement of current regulations
ARE

Surprise! The same exact people who fought tooth and nail not to allow marriage equality, or allow the repeal of DOMA, or allow private businesses to turn me away. Notwithstanding Timothy’s non-stop schilling for the rare “good” right wing conservatives, or even paint the mediocre ones in a favorable light when they finally are dragged kicking and screaming into admitting gay rights are alright after fighting against them.

Tell me again how they aren’t related?

enough already

November 25th, 2015

I understand what Timothy is saying. None of us are consistently ‘left’ or ‘right’ on all matters.
I, pretty much to the left of everybody on nearly everything else, firmly believe in gun control. Of course, I define gun control to mean:
Using both hands.

And that, all by itself, has made me the eternal, confirmed enemy of all that is right and good and holy for a whole slew of people right here.

Of course it’s easy to point out that a libertarian (which is PC for anarchist) is just a Republican who can read. They do, (and we are talking about the US here) vote exclusively and in lockstep with the Republicans on everything.

That is what makes it so hard to separate the ‘leave gays alone’ position of the libertarians from the ‘make their lives hell on earth’ position of the Republicans.

Short: Lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas. Until libertarians in the US vote anything but Republican, it’s going to be enormously hard to see them as advocates of gay rights.

Nathaniel

November 25th, 2015

Timothy, I hear and see your point. My only challenge would be this: In some of your examples of progressive issues, LGBT people could be disproportionately more affected on one side than on the other. The Syrian refugee crisis illustrates this perfectly: the far of harm felt by LGBT people fleeing ISIL is based on real threat, while the fear felt by Americans (including LGBT Americans) at the potential harm a refugee could inflict is based on unlikely scenarios. While the fear on both sides is real, the degree of reality behind each is distinct, and could realistically be objectively weighted to determine if this could be an “LGBT issue.” That said, while I’m all for shaming someone who I feel should know better, I agree that it is ridiculous to use this issue as THE litmus test for “acceptable LGBT politician.”

Regan DuCasse

November 26th, 2015

If I may. I have been concerned about the issue of illegal immigration for a long, long time.
The refugee crisis just happens to be more acute, but it’s one of thousands of issues with regard to whether our gov’t and it’s enforcers, can be trusted with national security.
Economic stability in many areas of the country ARE damaged severely by an unending stream of people whose needs are great and their access to limited resources are too.
It’s impossible to even get rid of illegal immigrant FELONS and this country is constantly being emotionally blackmailed by anything from abuses of the birthright clause, to identity theft and criminality enabled by illegal immigration.

And now, the refugee crisis in which many nations are expected to take in thousands of people who have been most betrayed by the leaders in their own countries, rather than the US.
I’ve seen that gay people feel immense solidarity with this issue because gay people in hostile nations ARE at risk.
And some gay people have come here and are living in the US illegally.

The point is that local peace officers, agencies like the BP, ICE and FBI are hamstrung in doing their jobs to enforce immigration.
Thousands of crimes, and dangerous people are already here for lack of enforcement of immigration laws.
So, regardless that it’s only a trickle of Syrian refugees, and the assurances that they are vetted for a long time before entry.
That’s not true in other cases that have affected millions of legal immigrants and any trust in immigrants of any kind.
I’ve been personally slammed and vilified for pointing this out.
When, having worked in a police agency science division for years, and heard from our President’s mouth, threatening the Border Patrol if they do their jobs, this country’s security is utterly doomed.

That’s not prejudice, that’s a sad reality. And thousands of people HAVE paid with much, if not their very lives for this breach of trust and treason by people who swore oaths against it.

Priya Lynn

November 27th, 2015

Its shameful all the fearmongering that’s been going on in the U.S. about refugees. The 10,000 refugees Americans are balking about bringing in in all of 2016 is a pathetic effort compared to the 25,000 Canada with 1/10th the population is bringing in by February 2016

From the Migration Policy Institute:

“The United States has resettled 784,000 refugees since Septermber 11, 2001

In those 14 years…three resettled refugess have been arrested fro planning terrorist activites…”

And none of those plans resulted in terrorist attacks in the U.S. The actual ratio of terrorists to refugees is 1 in 261,000. Peanuts have killed far more people in the U.S. in the last decade than terrorist refugees.

As reasonable adults we accept tiny amounts of risk baked into our everyday lives. Americans drive cars despite knowing 30,000 of them die in them each year, they go swimming despite the fact that 10 people a day die from drowning. 20 Americans every year are killed by cows but no one is saying the U.S. should expel all cows from the country.

Americans have no right to stoke fear about refugees when they do nothing about the 32,000 gun deaths per year, 60% of which are suicides made much more likely by the presence of a gun in the home.

Any rational person knows you cannot completely eliminate risk. We do it with peanuts, cars, and swimming because we rightly think they’re worth the risk. For the tremendous good the States could do and for the low risk involved refugees are worth it too.

Priya Lynn

November 27th, 2015

And as far as illegal immigrants into the U.S. goes, they have a much lower crime rate than American citizens because the vast majority do everything they can to obey the law so they don’t get caught.

Timothy Kincaid

November 27th, 2015

I do not see evidence that illegal immigrants have a much lower crime rate than American citizens.

Some on the right point at federal crime rates in which those in the country illegally have a MUCH higher rate. They are pointing at hard data. But that’s only federal stats and not exactly reflective of crime overall.

Those who support undocumented immigrants use vaguer meta-data type of analyses and sort of massage the data. I find this less conclusive, but necessarily false either.

It seems likely to me that undocumented immigrants commit crimes in rates comparable to those around them, maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less. But at present, there isn’t adequate info to really say much more than that.

And there is nothing I’ve seen that proves the claim of “much lower crime rate”.

See here

Priya Lynn

November 27th, 2015

Breitbart?! Really Timothy, you could hardly have picked a more disreputable source.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-mythical-connection-between-immigrants-and-crime-1436916798

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/07/02/surprise-donald-trump-is-wrong-about-immigrants-and-crime/

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/08/politics/immigrants-crime/

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/anecdotes-evidence-setting-record-straight-immigrants-and-crime-0

BrianQTD

November 27th, 2015

And yet, when black Americans vote against LGBT rights people shriek and howl about how they should “know better” because they, too, have been victims of discrimination. If you are an LGB or T person and have experienced marginalization, but you do not empathize with other marginalized, oppressed groups you are a terrible human being. No, there is no law of the universe that says LGBT people MUST be liberal, or MUST empathize with other oppressed people, it is just a decent thing to do. And when other members of the community display disgust and animosity because you espouse a selfish “I’ve got mine!” philosophy, don’t be surprised.

Timothy Kincaid

November 28th, 2015

Priya Lynn,

I believe your sources discuss immigrants generally, not those in the country illegally. Evidence does show that documented immigrants commit crime at lower rates, but the evidence on those here illegally is not as conclusive and from what I can find does not seem to support your assertions.

Eric Payne

November 29th, 2015

Timothy,

In the last 48 hours there appeared in this thread a “dressing down” by Jim that was, obviously, meant to be a private e-mail to you.

Honestly, after reading those two comments, since deleted, I’m a little bit surprised you’re doubling-down on your assertions regarding crime rates and immigration.

As has been pointed out by other comments within this thread, the meme of higher crime rates in areas where immigrants have settled is a political myth. It is a continuation of the “rule by fear” policies used so effectively by Dubya. Nothing more, nothing less.

The voices calling for a restriction of Syrian refugees, simply because they are Syrian, are the same voices who decried marriage equality as being a threat from which others had to be protected. They are the same voices that, in Houston, have male rapists wearing dresses lurking in womens’ public rest rooms.

They are the same voices, and represent the same ideology, that for decades did their damndest to make simply being homosexual a crime.

And the only reason those voices are now silent — except, of course, for those whose income derives from fanning the flames of anti-gay hatred == is because a small majority of the rest of the country was suddenly aware they had homosexual friends and family members’ they had first-hand information that everything they had been told was, just, wrong.

These are people fleeing their homes for one simple reason: to stay in their homes is to face death.

They abandon their homes and all their possessions to board a large rubber raft to paddle to Greece and Europe… 17 hours at sea (in good weather)… some losing their children to drowning… if, luckily, they hit the shores of Greece, and are allowed to resettle, somewhere (with only the hope families remain intact)… and they do all this solely (or primarily) simply as subterfuge to act as agents of the same religious/political agenda(s) of the regimes from which they’re escaping?

Wow. That’s one helluva illogical leap.

Unfortunately, it’s a leap Breitbart, et. al. isn’t afraid to make.

Regan DuCasse

November 29th, 2015

No Priya Lynn, it’s not Breitbart or any conservative media that’s informed me that it’s a lie about the criminal element in illegal immigration.

It’s the experience with the LAPD and their interfaced databases that have informed me.
It’s the crimes I’ve attended, and the exponential ones that have involved every division within any kind of enforcement agency in the country.

It’s the interference with law enforcement agencies to do their job, and disconnection of their information sharing that’s LED to major attacks like 9/11.
But there are other crimes in the THOUSANDS that effect people every day.
From traffic violations, sex work, lack of facilities, identity theft and the exponential crimes that enable gangs is what I’m talking about.

We have a very serious economic crisis in CA. And regardless how many refugees make it here. There are other problems that are exacerbated by a LOT else.
No one wants to be honest about it. And the people the least harmed by it, don’t care.
Which makes a mockery of compassion towards those who are struggling, regardless leading law abiding lives.
And THAT includes myself.

Timothy Kincaid

November 29th, 2015

Eric

In the last 48 hours there appeared in this thread a “dressing down” by Jim that was, obviously, meant to be a private e-mail to you.

Actually, it was a fraudulent comment left by someone pretending to be Jim. He deleted it.

And as for my assertions, they are simple: “I do not see evidence that illegal immigrants have a much lower crime rate than American citizens.” If you have evidence that immigrants here illegally have a much lower crime rate than American citizens, feel free to present it.

Eric Payne

November 29th, 2015

Timothy,

And that is the standard GOP canard in ruling by fear: They make assertions, sans any demonstrative proof, then say “Go ahead and disprove it!”

How about this: Instead of using “illegal” to quantify them, how about using the term “undocumented.”? Oh. Because if you strip them of the adjective label of “illegal”, the “crime rate” among those people plummets… yes, I know you’ve also further clarified yourself, limiting yourself to “violent” crime, but you’ve yet to cite completely independent sources.

You’ve done nothing but pay homage to the same fears that rationalized ostracization of other groups in the past, from the freed African slaves, and the Chinese Coolie, and the Paddy Irish, and the Jew, women in the workforce and, of course, gay men.

You should be ashamed. But as was pointed out — you’ve got yours; to hell with anyone else.

Priya Lynn

November 29th, 2015

Regan, your experience is anecdotal evidence. That is insufficient to make a judgement on a group as a whole as any statistician would tell you.

Timothy, I gave you the evidence, you just refuse to acknowledge it.

Eric Payne

November 30th, 2015

For the sake of argument, let’s say it is possible to do an accurate census which counts the number of, and gains the accurate background of, every single gay man in this country.

In identifying the thousands upon thousands of gay men, it is determine one gay man does have a history of child molestation.

Are communities now allowed to disallow gay men from residing within their communities, re-igniting the old “sexual predator” memes of the not-so-recent past?

If we allow 10K Syrian refugees into the country, scattering them as best we can, so that they dissolve in our melange of communities, might one of them have ulterior motives? Sure. But do we hold the acts/thoughts of that individual representative of the group, in whole?

Priya Lynn

November 30th, 2015

Even France after the terror attacks has reaffirmed its commitment to take 30,000 refugees. The French president says he won’t let the terrorists win.

Priya Lynn

November 30th, 2015

http://www.mtv.com/news/2510975/france-to-take-30000-refugees/

Regan DuCasse

December 1st, 2015

Priya Lynn:
It’s you that can’t make that judgement, actually. My experience was about how I got my INFORMATION, not about the experience in an of itself.

I’m only pointing out that there are matters of common sense that have nothing to do with just Syrian refugees.
But millions of people who haven’t been accounted for, whose needs or ability to function in this nation without participating FULLY in the legal process to, isn’t something that can be acceptable.
It has PROVEN to be not just dangerous in the sense of crime, but also of economic stress.

ERIC PAYNE: This is something to be mindful of, also when it comes to localities and their resource abilities and standards.
There has been the accommodation of illegal immigration in such ways, that now it’s possible for a CA election to be thrown.
That already happened here, in a gubernatorial election with the introduction of ONE illegal immigrant whose integration into the house of a candidate, completely destroyed her run for governor.
Your analogy of one gay man being a child predator among millions who are not, is a pointless one to make.
Gay people are integrated in every human life and society and always have been.
They are not a matter of national sovereignty, assimilation and cultural values.
In the way a person who remains illiterate, and ignorant of their responsibility or incapable of it would be.
And gay people are a perpetual MINORITY in the world.
Where the poor, or those from dysfunctional nations, most certainly are NOT.
CA has lost thousands of businesses, hospitals and other vital sources of stability.
And the prisons, in fact by over a fourth, have among their populations, illegal immigrants.
Parsing the words illegal, as opposed to ‘undocumented’ is a ridiculous distraction from a major problem and major reality.
The world has grown much to small, and the functional Western nations can’t carry the burdens of the dysfunctional ones anymore without serious damage to themselves.
That is what’s at the foundation of all of this.
No amount of charity in the world is going to suffice.
It’s not that people might not have the charity in them.
But don’t have the capability of effective charity to sustain such populations effectively.

Regan DuCasse

December 1st, 2015

And btw Priya: France may have made a declaration and determination regarding taking in refugees.
But over the last 20 years, they have populations of immigrants whose assimilation has been extremely difficult.
I guess you forgot those year that those populations burned down their neighborhoods.
Hundreds of cars were set on fire, and the rage behind it, no doubt did seed what’s happened with the latest killings.

None of us has the luxury of short memories.
But those who haven’t experienced any of what I’m talking about, do.

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