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BTB Original Video Interviews With Former Exodus Leaders

Daniel Gonzales

June 28th, 2007

Yesterday this site reported on three former Exodus leaders who made a public apology to former clients of exgay programs. I attended that press conference (and helped accept the apology) but also shot video interviews with the three former leaders.

Strategically it has always been difficult to counter Exodus’ claims of change when they use the “I’ve changed and I’m living proof change is possible” argument. I believe these three interviews provide an answer to Exodus’ approach.

Michael Bussee:
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Darlene Bogle:
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Jeremy Marks:
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I asked the same question of other ex-ex-gays at the press conference and those will be uploaded later

See also:

BTB Original Video Interview With Michael Bussee, Co-Founder Of Exodus



Anthony Falzarano
October 8th, 2007 | LINK

I come across these ex ex-gay sites and it makes me so sad because I know a few of these names. I have been out of the gay lifestyle for over 17 years and i wouldn’t go back for all the tea in China! I would like to hear from some of you about what happen…The Lord Jesus says that “He would never give us more than we can take” Feel free to call me at (561) 655-3055. I would prefer that you call me. My name is Anthony Falzarano. I am director of an ex-gay ministry in West Palm Beach FL. I know that Exodus International has failed many of you. It is not the ministry that was so filled with the Holy Spirit when I got help from it. The devil has invaded the leadership and Exodus has got a lot of repenting to do for the lukewarmness that has entered its ranks…BUT please don’t blame God for the weakness of Exodus. Keep your focus on Jesus Christ and the Bible. I had to leave Exodus because as I began to point out to them the great attack that was coming from within our leadership I was villanized. Please call me I would like to speak to anyone who has given up hope that they can not heal. Exodus leadership has caused an awful lot of pain in my life so I started to realize that my focus was off of Jesus and I was worshipping the institution and not the Lord. If Exodus repents of their behavior God will continue to bless them. If not they will lose the annointing just the way that AA fell off of their Christian roots as they began to grow. Please check out our website The Christian right is also very responsible for not helping the ex-gay movement. WE were used for political purposes but never received proper funding to help the wonderful and COURAGEOUS ex-gays who decided to do the right thing…May God Bless YOU (and know that HE STILL CARES!!!

October 8th, 2007 | LINK

Anthony, did you even listen to those testimonies?

October 9th, 2007 | LINK

“I would like to speak to anyone who has given up hope that they can not heal.”

I never had any hope of healing, because I’m not diseased. There’s nothing wrong with me, this is how I was created.

I don’t care whether it’s genes or womb environment or a combination, I’ve always been this way, far back as I can remember.

There’s nothing to fix, nothing to heal. We’re like anybody else, we just go about a few select things in our lives slightly differently.

The ex-gay industry is just an extreme makeover. It’s psychological cosmetic surgery. It only changes the appearance, not the person.

October 9th, 2007 | LINK

Furthermore Anthony, you’re not allowed to define Jesus Christ’s relationship with me.

Martin Lanigan
October 9th, 2007 | LINK

I quote Anthony:

“If Exodus repents of their behavior God will continue to bless them. If not they will lose the annointing just the way that AA fell off of their Christian roots as they began to grow.”

Anthony – how do you know what god(s) will or will not do for Exodus? Exactly which god(s) will bless Exodus? What is a blessing? What is annointing? What evidence do you have that god(s) bless or annoint anything or anyone?

I am amazed that you claim to know the mind(s) of god(s) – when you cannot even prove that such being(s) exist. Of course, you are entitled to believe in such things if you wish, but why on earth do you presume to instruct any of us without the slightest shred of objective evidence for your assertions?

Am I missing something here?

Anthony Falzarano
October 19th, 2007 | LINK

Dear Martin, There is a God and only one. That’s what the Jews have taught us for 6,000 years. God has sent His only begotten Son into the world to die for us…His name is Jesus Christ and whomever puts there hope in Him and obeys His commands will gain eternal life. The rest who do not believe (which is the majority of the world will enter hell. God is pro-choice…Choose heaven or hell? When I turned my life over to Him I became born-again and now had the power to overcome anything in my life including my homosexual DISorientation. I know belong to Jesus and have been “bought with a price” and know devote the rest of my life to helping others come to know the way to Him. That’s why I was saved from damnation…to help others leave the gay lifestyle behind. Noone is born gay. Check-out the data…all the phoney gay gene studies have been proven to be phoney. Please check-out the book HOMOSEXUALITY & THE POLITICS OF TRUTH by Dr Jeff Satinover or our website

Ken R
October 20th, 2007 | LINK


Why is it when conservative christians speak of God all they speak of is the bible? Isn’t God himself greater than printed words? Shouldn’t those printed words be etched into our hearts rather than being hallow words being shout at people because their pastors tell them to?

Do you not know that the New Testament Bible wasn’t even put together in its present form until the latter half of the fourth century? And with chapters and verses even much later? What happened to those Christians that had no access to what we know as Scripture? Were they saved? Do you not know that Jesus promised us in Acts 1 and 2 the Holy Spirit as a helper and not a book of writings by other sinful and fallible men? Sure it was inspired by God but no more than myself being inspired by God to write a poem or a song in his holy name. It was their personal experiences with the risen Lord and their daily lives as witnesses to that that gave them the inspiration on what to write later. And the first was not written until three decades after Jesus’ resurrection! Our center should be on Jesus alone. His ministry and his commandments of loving God and one another first and foremost as the greatest of all commandments. Too many Christians give the Bible the glory that is due to God alone. That is idolatry or Bibliolatry in this case. And which Bible translation is true? There are many interpretations and not everyone will agree which is closer to the truth. That is why I find, as others have, that Sola Scriptura (by scripture alone) is in and of itself problematic. People tell me to read the Bible because its the Word of God but have forgotten that God’s TRUE Word of God was Jesus. He IS the Word of God made Flesh! (John 1)

It is your brand of condemnation Christianity Anthony (or Thug Christianity a good ol’ Episcopal Bishop has coined in one of his recent bloggings)that has caused many to leave Christianity especially conservative evangelical/fundamentalist Christianity. I’ve been to websites that are run by former conservative Christian evangelical fundamentalists that now claim to be atheists. Jesus never meant for this to happen. And I am quite sure they would be appalled by all of it.

Martin Lanigan
October 20th, 2007 | LINK


Assuming I accept everything in your Oct 19th response as true, you still have not answered how you know the mind of god(s). How do you know what god(s) intend for Exodus? I assume your god(s) are of the christian variety, yet I am unaware of any biblical passages dealing with the Exodus organization in particular. Perhaps you could point me to the correct book, chapter and verse?

Or perhaps your knowledge flows from a personal revelation by the god(s) to you – and you alone. If so, by what mechanism did this revelation take place? Was it a physical manifestation, or simply a disembodied voice? Perhaps a inward feeling or intuition? Why should I or anyone believe it? Such claims can be made by anyone.

I am always intrigued by the fact that people differ so wildly in how they intrepret the will of the god(s), and yet amazingly, those same god(s) never fail to be in total agreement with each and every one of those people.

What a wicked bunch of god(s) they must be to deliberately sow so much confusion.

anthony falzarano
October 20th, 2007 | LINK

Dear Martin and Ken,

The bible says that Jesus is the Living Word. He is the personality of God the Father! When we obey the Word (Jesus) we are obeying the Father. Because the Father and the Son (JESUS) are one. God gives us HIS Holy Spirit as the power of the God. Jesus is now (after His resurrection in heaven at the (right hand of the Father) alongside God interceding for our souls. That’s the inner voice that speaks to believers that are baptised in the Holy Spirit, You know that it is God’s voice because it never contradicts the Word of God (the bible). That’s why it’s easy to detect a false phrophet or teacher or minister. If he tells you that openly practicing homosexuality or any kind of sexual immorality is OK then you are not to listen to him…its obvious, he is trying to lead you astray. Please check out our website for more info His Love, Anthony Falzarano

Ken R
October 20th, 2007 | LINK


Let me share something with you. I have met God. Been in his presence even before I became a Christian. He even spoke to me. What my life was like before I even knew God was totally different than it is now. Yes, I sin just as you and everyone that has walked this earth. Except Jesus of course. Yet I am still gay. While everything else changed I am still gay. If God chose me before I was even born he will NOT lead me astray. He has a plan for me.

Let me ask you this. Why is your brand of Christianity so obsessed with gay people above all else? Is it because it makes them money by scaring people that the gay boogeyman is out to get their kids? And why are your allies so embracing of divorce and remarriage (except in cases of adultry which is permissible) all the while claiming to defend traditional marriage? Why is wealth no longer a sin and practiced heavily in evangelical/fundamentalist megachurches when Jesus clearly said that it was easier for a camel to pass through an eye of a needle than it was for a rich man to get into heaven? Why have many of these megachurches embraced an eye for an eye mentality while Jesus himself said to forgive one another and turn the other cheek? Why is the Iraq War embraced by many conservative Christians as just and blessed by God? To me, this does not sound anything like the Christianity Jesus started.

So yes, I agree with you Anthony. Many of these megachurch evangelical and television ministers are leading people astray. I wouldn’t listen to them. They lie in order to squash the real truth and claim that by sending them money they can be healed or be given a blessing for that new mansion or $50,000 car. They embrace some truths while hiding behind other false beliefs that wealth and divorce and remarriage are no longer sins.

Martin Lanigan
October 20th, 2007 | LINK


So if I understand your answer correctly, you know the mind of god(s) because you hear inner voices.

For the record, I hear no inner voices. A great many well adjusted people (you know – people with sound mental health) also do not hear inner voices.

If you determine the authentiicty of your inner voice(s) because they are consistent with the bible, then why does anyone need the inner voice(s) at all? What happens when the inner voice speaks about something not in the bible?

Seriously Anthony, if you are really hearing voices that no one else can hear, then I would direct you to the following website:

There is help Anthony. There is hope. Don’t wait.

Anthony Falzarano
October 20th, 2007 | LINK

Dear Martin,

God is alive and He still speaks to us through His Holy Spirit. Go alone away from the world and your computer maybe to the beach or mountains and listen for His voice. If you really are a seeker. He will reveal Himself to you…”if you seek Him with all your soul, body, mind and strength. He will answer your questions if you’re willing to hear some hard answers and truths about yourself. The apostle Paul wasn’t looking for Jesus. If you read the Holy Scriptures it will tell you that He was even killing the early Christians. He was a good Jew who thought he was defending the faith by kiliing thoses “phony Christians”. and then what did Jesus do on the road to Emmaus, he said, “Paul, Paul why are you persecuting me? I implore you to start answering questions…If your serious, He will answer you…In His Love, Anthony Falzarano

Anthony Falzarano
October 20th, 2007 | LINK

Dear Ken, i am as shocked as you by some of these TV evangelists who mock the Church by their actions. You seem to be a defender of the faith. You and I are similar we did not want to be a part of hypocritical Christianity, We wanted the real thing. The God of the Old and New Testament has the power to deliver you from homosexuality. If He can do it for me, He can do it for you. Please checkout our website for my testimony and please call me (on the phone) if you care to. May God Bless You, Anthony

Martin Lanigan
October 21st, 2007 | LINK

Dear Anthony,

You will no doubt be pleased to learn that this is my last post on this now off-topic thread.

I appreciate that you have been speaking to me in “religious language”. My previous posts were a challenge for you to frame your ideas in a language that was not obscure, but grounded in reality. I will let other readers decide for themselves why you steadfastly refused the challenge.

I find your non-answer condescending because it assumes that I have never been engaged in a quest for religious meaning and truth.

Contrary to your “Road to Damascus” example, all doubters and skeptics are not merely people who have not tried to become steeped in ‘His Word’.

It may surprise you to know that many people labeled as: agnostic; atheist; humanist or skeptic indeed have a religious background. Many were once believers, the elect, the saved, and born again. They have sought religious truth, struggled with reconciling it with the real world, and ultimately found it sorely lacking on so many levels.

I will leave you with a quote from Bertrand Russell (it’s only fair after all – as you have given me many warmed over bon mots from your favourite authors):

“…it is the business of the church to discriminate, just as it is the business of the art connoisseur to know a genuine Leonardo from a forgery. In this way revelation becomes institutionalized at the same time. Righteousness is what the church approves, and unrighteousness is what it disapproves. Thus the effective part of the conception of righteousness is a justification of herd antipathy.”

This pretty much sums up my feelings towards ex-gay apologists, and people who proclaim that we are duty bound to follow the instructions of their ‘inerrant authentic inner voices’.

Anthony Falzarano
October 21st, 2007 | LINK

This comment has been deleted for being off topic and for promoting his web site, both of which are in violation of our Comments policy.

david jarrett
December 25th, 2007 | LINK

Hello Anthony. I see that you are still active in the ex-Gay movement. I remember our get-togethers in New York and particularly Provincetown many years ago. I remain gay and have absolutely no problems accepting it. I do NOT believe that being gay is a learned behavor pattern. David Jarrett, New York, Provincetown, and South Beach (where I am right now).

May 14th, 2008 | LINK

You know…I knew Gary Cooper quite well. I went to high school with him and he was the best man at my wedding. My marriage later broke up and my children were denied the important “daddy” relationship so vital to the healthy, emotional growth of young children. You see, my ex is also gay, and at that time, quite selfish as well. While he and I now have reestablished a friendship and our adult children have now grown up and established their own lives, I’d like for you all to think about others besides your own selfish needs for establishing your “identity”. If you are gay (or are not sure) please do not hide behind your feelings and marry (and make babies) hoping it will “all go away”. Many years later, so many lives are hurt and affected by those decisions. If you ARE married and have children, my wish is for you to stay and father your children until they are of legal age. At the very LEAST, you owe your children this much. You do NOT have the right to procreate and abandon the rights of the children. Gary Cooper’s wife, and his children, suffered irrepairable emotional damage because of his “need” to satiate his own desires and path. He’s dead from AIDS, and obviously no longer able to see his children or know his grandchildren, but to see his image plastered on the cover of that DVD is, I am sure, a constant reminder to his ex wife and children, that he cared more about HIS life than anyone else’s, including his precious youngsters. Do you really believe you have that right? Do the right thing, please, as you work through your issues and establish your identity. Thank you for reading my thoughts, and I wish you all a healthy and contented life.

Gimmel Yod
October 17th, 2008 | LINK

Ex-Gays in West Palm Beach? I think the truth is that it’s ‘selectively amBisexual’ in WPB. Ex-gays seem (notice I say “seem”) to claim to rely on the Scripture. What they actually rely on is an adulterated set of translations that don’t actually say what ex-gays assert. A few years ago, something else began to make waves in West Palm Beach: g0ys (spelled w. a zer0). G00GLE ’em if you haven’t heard about the theological thrashing the main website give to “false gospels” like those being pushed by “ex-gays”. G0YS discuss what the Scriptures actually forbade vs. the distortions of hypocrites like ex-gay program pushers! G0YS is a secular site -with a no nonsense section of exhaustive apologetics for Christians who want real answers & reat atonement! G0YS even takes the time to show that it’s ex-gay promoters who are “anathema” (damned – literally) by the Scriptures themselves! Even Galatians 3:28 says that in Christ there is NO MALE & FEMALE! That concept immediately collapses the entire notion of “sexual orientation” on a spiritual level! Yeah! In Christ, it’s ALL HOMO! Let g0ys show you the brilliance of the Scriptures so that liars like “ex-gays” don’t steal your life, destroy your hopes & kill your eternity!

eric marcoux
January 9th, 2010 | LINK

I am a daily enthusiastic and appreciative visitor to your site. Thank you.

Here in Oregon my husband and I (56 yrs. together!) are familiar with the deceitful activities of Scott Lively from the days when he and his buddy Lon Mabon were crusading against gay rights.

Yesterday at the gym where we work out, in conversation with a reliable and honest “gym friend,” the name Scott Lively was mentioned.

Our friend commented that he remembered Lively as one of his colleagues teaching in the same school years ago. The school had many street kids in it and many of the males were young gay men prostituting themselves on the streets. Scott Lively was well known to them as someone finding his Rough Trade among them. My retired teacher friend remarked that his teacher colleagues were also aware of Lively’s activities and often expressed the wish they had some way to document it.

I went over this story several times with my friend, anxious to be accurate in my recollection of what he had just said so that my sharing this hearsay with you would not be distorted by me as I gladly share it with you.

I hope this is of use to you. I feel certain it could be the seed for a legitimate, professional journalistic investigation.

What horrors the closet can breed.

Best wishes to you and your readers whose names are now familiar to me.

Eric Marcoux &
Eugene Woodworth

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