Box Turtle Bulletin
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobby“Now you must raise your children up in a world where that union of man and box turtle is on the same legal footing as man and wife…”
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobbyNovember 6th, 2008
From LDS Elder L. Whitney Clayton of the Presidency of the Seventy:
Now that California voters have outlawed same-sex marriage, an LDS Church leader called Wednesday for members to heal rifts caused by the emotional campaign by treating each other with “civility, with respect and with love.”
“We hope that everyone would treat [each other] that way no matter which side of this issue they were on,” said Elder L. Whitney Clayton, of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ Presidency of the Seventy.
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Scott
November 6th, 2008
Let me be the first to tell Elder Clayton to go f*ck himself.
JT
November 6th, 2008
Yet again, one wonders if they have read their own book. “Love is kind.” All that business about humility and care for the oppressed. I mean, is the ick factor really that powerful? If so, why hasn’t eating oysters been outlawed by constitutional amendment?
John
November 6th, 2008
We gay people need to have a coordinated response toward the Mormon Church. There has already been talk of boycotts against Utah and Mormon business interests.
We need a list and a campaign to educate gays and our allies. There must be consequences for what they have done.
I would also like to know why California can’t vote on the legitimacy of Mormon marriages? Perhaps another proposition (regardless of how unconstitutional and bigotted it might appear). It should be okay since similar things have been done before via the California proposition process.
AJD
November 6th, 2008
John,
Anti-Mormon initiatives are tempting, but something like that would probably backfire on us.
However, boycotting Utah and Mormon business interests isn’t a bad idea. Utah is a sparsely populated state whose economy depends heavily on tourism. I wonder if there’s some leftover money from No On 8 for a “Boycott Utah” TV ad…
In the meantime, don’t stay at any Marriott hotels!
cowboy
November 6th, 2008
I read on another blog (which will remain nameless) about boycotting the Sundance Film Festival. Of all things in Utah THAT is the one bright spot for some gays residing in Utah. You might even think Sundance is the antithesis of Mormons. (The LDS have their own Family Friendly Film Festival to counter the SFF in Park City.) You would only be hurting the ones that really has and can help the GLBT community.
Didn’t we learn the same thing about boycotting of Colorado a number of years ago? That boycott only hurt the people in Aspen who are mostly liberal. The same would be for Park City, Utah.
I don’t think the boycott of Kanab, Utah was all that successful. If you remember it was the Kanab city council that enacted a non-binding “family†ordinance there a while back. It caused national news attention but life there was largely unaffected even with a couple of conventions that were cancelled.
I, frankly, think the economy is going to be hard enough on the Marriott hotel and the hospitality business already. I don’t think we would accomplish anything by hurting Marriott. The LDS Church would not change a thing in their dogma by what happens in the marketplace to a hotel operated by a Mormon. Plus, there wouldn’t be any chance of J.W. Marriott having any influence on The Church. And…by-the-way…J. Willard Marriott is a nice guy. Truly he is. I can only suggest Marriott Hotel Chain should place an ad or two in gay-focused tabloids and magazines. (Hint hint: Just a suggestion to the Marriott Inc. and their ad agency.)
But, I have to tell you where it hurts the Mormons. The Achilles heel of their organization: They are Public Image Conscience to the nth degree! The public perception of them is paramount in everything they say and do. It cuts them to their very core to say they are racists (which they are because they have NEVER EVER apologized for their past racist practices.) In spite of all their protestations, they are bigots. Mormons can try to deftly opine that they are only looking for their best interests and don’t look to harm or belittle any homosexual. They still are bigots and this Proposition 8 vetted out that quite distinctly.
You just have to see how politics are in Utah. The LDS Church may make a statement about being kind to gays and they appeal to the kinder, gentler (Christ-like) qualities…but their members…the beloved Saints…those Mormons in the rural areas are a different kind of folk. They send representatives to the Utah Legislature and when it comes to gay issues, it is hate…abundantly obviously hate-filled legislation. The bills and laws are authored by mean-spirited, homophobic, self-righteous, sanctimonious bigots. The pronouncements of the leaders of the LDS Church to be more tolerant and understanding goes in one door of the State Capitol and out the other. Nothing changes. Gays are evil. Gays are demonic. They threaten the very existence of humanity.
The level of hatred for anything gay is unrealistic. I can’t understand the reasoning for it either.
The hidden undercurrent of Mormonism still has that racist and bigotry flowing…in spite of what you read from the oracles of The Church.
I should mention, also, Mormons will try to reverse the persecution complex. They are great manipulators in that realm. They thrive on persecution. It emboldens them.
Really freak them out…go hug a Mormon. Really. Get to know them and show who you are. It will freak them out. The “love your enemy†is really good advice. Shower them with kindness. Do something out of the ordinary.
If anything…I would really want for each and every gay person in California to walk into the nearest LDS Wardhouse this Sunday and sit for an hour with Mormons. The sign on the outside of their Church says: Visitors Welcome. Please. It’s the best way to demonstrate we are not evil. We are not the trolls that eat their children. We are human beings.
A coordinated call to attend a Mormon Church this Sunday would change things…for the better.
homer
November 6th, 2008
Oh come on, I am not going to listen to the words of a man who believes wearing special underpants makes him somehow a better person.
Rob Johnson
November 6th, 2008
Cowboy,
Please come. Don’t disrupt our meetings, but please visit your nearest LDS wardhouse this Sunday. I’ll hazard a guess that you won’t find any trolls there either . . . even if they do were special underpants.
AJD
November 6th, 2008
Okay, point taken, cowboy. I’m still too disgusted to visit one of their churches, though.
cowboy
November 6th, 2008
Mr. Johnson,
I never would disrupt a meeting. That’s not the idea. But if you do notice strange looking persons in your pews….please don’t stare. It’s not polite to point at anyone’s piercings or spiked hair. Be cordial. I know it might be hard to trust each other but I guarantee there are decent people on both sides. I’m hoping the decent meet decent and respect meets respect.
In other words, I would treat you in your chapel as I would treat you in your own livingroom. It is only the way cultured people should be.
AJD,
I understand. The feelings are still raw and it might be too soon. I felt the same way. Especially when some of my co-workers were blatantly gloating and attempting to goad me into making a defensive statement. I resisted in being lured into their manipulative trap. I was too dumb to recognize I was being goaded at first so I’m glad I was so innocent and naive. It took me a whole day to mull over happenings of the day and figure out what they were doing. I’m not completely clueless but sometimes I take a long time to see what was happening. (It’s what happens when I take inventory of the previous day as I lay in bed trying to sleep. Do you know what I mean?)
But, again, we must take the higher road. We must prove that we ARE the class act in this issue.
(Can you tell I’m buck’n for an appointment as some diplomat in the new Administration. Or some post at the U.N.)
AJD
November 6th, 2008
That’s pretty sick that they would be gloating in front of you like that — I presume, based on what you’re writing, that they know you’re one of the people put at a disadvantage by Prop. 8, right?
You know what works on people like that? Don’t say anything. Just look right into their eyes with a dark, sullen expression on your face, until the smile melts off of theirs. Then go back to what you were doing.
werdna
November 7th, 2008
cowboy-I just wanted to say I really appreciate your insight and thoughtful perspective on these issues. It’s easy to fall back on simplistic caricatures of our opponents, to get wrapped up in what we imagine they’re thinking and doing. You really help me think hard and stay compassionate about those who are working so hard against us. Thank you.
cowboy
November 7th, 2008
AJD,
Yeah..they know just the kind of guy I am. Shortly after a funeral of a friend of mine my, then, boss asked me some questions. It turned into a 4-hour discussion in his office after hours. We discussed everything: from his boyhood friend who just had a PBS documentary about him on TV that week, the Boy Scouts and that controversy and religion. I never will apologize for who I am. I don’t necessarily flaunt my homosexuality but I’m not going to deny it.
After that meeting, the gossip mill must have kicked in real fast. Suddenly I was not being treated as one of the guys. The single women in the building were suddenly cool and not so flirtatious. I don’t blame them. I understand. That’s part of what makes life interesting, right?
They know.
And, of course, that my screen saver on my PC is a random slideshow of hot-looking dudes might have tipped them off….(not true but you should see the wallpaper on my cell phone!)
Thanks werdna, I really love what you have typed here on BTB too. The clear way you all help me understand legal things. It’s very educational. I really appreciate the comments I have been reading.
Truly…you people should be proud. This site is a class act. It really should be where people on both sides of this issue can come to express their ideas and suggestions.
If I go to the protest rally at the Salt Lake Temple today it’s not to confront the Mormons but it is to show how angry….no…rather: how hurt I am. But I will stand tall. Because, as we all know, we have the truth and fairness on our side and that I will never apologize for.
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