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What Margie’s Friends Think of You

Timothy Kincaid

November 18th, 2008

Sometimes you never know what someone believes about you until you hear it from someone else. Margie Christoffersen, the grande dame of El Coyote was always there with a smile for gay folk, but that isn’t how her Mormon friends saw it.

A fellow ward member has posted her views about Margie and El Coyote. And if they reflect Margie’s, I’m ill to think I ever spent a cent there. She opens:

I was going to write about the persecution of my friend, Marjorie (Margie) Christofferson, who has been targeted by the gay community for giving 100 bucks to the Yes on Prop 8 campaign. But instead of talking about their hatred which we have seen displayed so clearly I want to talk about Margie.

After some glowing praise about what a good Mormon Margie was, she gets in her digs.

To know such a woman is truly an honor. You don’t meet many great people in your life, they are a rarity. I have pledged to do whatever I can to help her get through this. If Margie is willing to sacrifice so much for what she believes, the least I can do is support her and stand by her. The people who are vilifying her don’t even begin to know what kind of wonderful person they are hurting. They will never have the moral fortitude to looks such heated opposition in the eye and not blink. They will never be as good, forgiving or loving as my good friend Margie Christofferson. May God watch over her now. May all those who supported Prop. 8 support her now. She given so much for us, it is time to pay her back.

What a coincidence. Her gay customers also thought it was time to pay her back.

UPDATE:

I happened to notice, as I drove by on my way home last night, that El Coyote had significantly fewer customers than is usual for a Monday night.

See also:

El Coyote Boycott – My Observations
The El Coyote Boycott
El Coyote: An Uncompromising Faith
El Coyote Update
Should I Give Up my Favorite Mexican Restaurant?

Comments

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kevin
November 18th, 2008 | LINK

“They will never have the moral fortitude to looks such heated opposition in the eye and not blink.”

Wait a second. I thought Margie read from a prepared statement and then turned around and walked out, leaving her two daughters standing there.

If that’s moral fortitude, lady, you done gone crazy!

It might be pointed out to this person that the so-called “heated opposition” were her customers and that if anything has been “sacrificed” it is the goodwill her customers once showered upon her when they thought she actually care about them.

Is it so hard for the anti-gay folks to understand that when they hurt people there are REAL consequences, both for them and the ones they hurt?

Soul-searching much? Any?

Joe Brummer
November 18th, 2008 | LINK

Sorry, but how is this going to get us our rights to chastise this women for her deeply held religious beliefs? How is it helpful for us to paint her as the enemy?

Shouldn’t we be trying to understand her beliefs so we can address them? Shouldn’t we be reaching out to her to change her mind and gain her support?

I fail to see how painting this women as the bad guy helps her or us. I guess it is just me and mind weird approach to things, but I would rather connect with her than shame her.

Timothy Kincaid
November 18th, 2008 | LINK

Joe,

Check out the other postings on El Coyote.

We met with her to understand her beliefs. We reached out to her to change her mind and get her support.

She made it perfectly clear that her church’s teachings come first. She let us know that she would continue to use the profits from the loyal patronage of the gay community to advocate for the loss of their rights.

Joe Brummer
November 18th, 2008 | LINK

But doesn’t she have the right to do that as much as you have the right not to eat there? I only feel uncomfortable with how you are portraying her. I agree that we should not give her money that she will use against us, but isn’t there a way to make that point without making her seem evil?

Perhaps I don’t understand this situation, but I have been reading your updates and it seems like we are hurting her more than we are winning her over. It seems like a case of us winning “against” her rather than winning her “over”, I am always concerned how that helps us.

But again, maybe I don’t get it.

Timothy Kincaid
November 18th, 2008 | LINK

Joe, please provide examples of the way I portray her that you find objectionable. I don’t think Margie is evil and don’t wish to portray her as such. Actually, I think she’s a victim, though a willing one, of her church’s leadership and their political ambitions.

I do think that Margie likes her gay friends and is definitely hurting to think that they are angry.

But she’s not hurting enough to stop treating them like willful children. And she’s absolutely unwilling to consider that they just might possibly have a reason for being angry.

Joe Brummer
November 19th, 2008 | LINK

I think it is the general tone of the articles about El Coyote, but again, maybe its just me.

cowboy
November 19th, 2008 | LINK

I think if you’re on a first-name basis with Marjorie then you should know if she has learned her lesson or not. Her LDS Ward members are not relevant to this issue.

Again, I think we should take the higher road. That could be taking pity on her and move on or smother her with kindness. Those are really the only two options.

Personally, I won’t walk into an LDS Church except for a funeral of one of my family but I still think it would be good for gays to attend a Mormon Church just once. The Saints need to see who we are. Interactions in a restaurant are not sufficient.

I can’t think of where I would have Mormons come visit gays…certainly not at a bar…especially some I have been in. The diplomatic approach if for us is to take the step towards them.

lee
November 19th, 2008 | LINK

i agree with cowboy and joe. why so much vindictiveness? why so much joy in someone else’s hurt?

cowboy, i think you have a good idea. although mormons aren’t naive or sheltered from gays. they are always welcome in their buildings– while every baptized member is expected to live with no sexual relations out of wedlock. there is actually a great respect for gays who do not act on their tendencies (genetic/environmental or whatever the cause)(just as there is great respect and value for single heterosexuals who never marry).

Mormons with same sex attraction are able to fully participate in the religion including holding a temple recommend and church-service assignments.

While certainly people in the gay community may not support someone living a chaste lifestyle– and think its a kind of repression– i’m just saying that no one hates or really disrespects gays at all.

They will be the first to say: everyone has their choice.

But when it comes to political/social policy issues: they’ll do everything they can to make sure the family is protected. Because of their beliefs they cannot accept a same-gender relationship as a marriage.

They can’t see that marriage is a right, to them it has always been a privelege– something purposefully set apart from other relationships.

anyways— maybe this helps, maybe it doesn’t, but have a good day anyways.

Timothy Kincaid
November 19th, 2008 | LINK

lee

i’m just saying that no one hates or really disrespects gays at all

You left off the rest of that sentence.

I’m just saying that no one hates or really disrespects gays at all as long at they conform to the relgious demands of the church, but will, of course, plan, fund, and implement a multi-state tens-of-millions of dollars effort to remove fundamental rights from those gay persons who follow a faith other than that dictated from Salt Lake City.

Frankly, I’d rather be hated and disrespected but given civil equality.

cowboy
November 19th, 2008 | LINK

lee (if you are still are around**)

Getting and holding a Temple Recommend card is not a big deal. I personally know of people who hold such identification in their wallets but are…can I be brutal?…not really worthy of being let through security at the Temple with said card. Someone gay holding such a card is not proof of his/her worthiness.

Would a “church-service assignment” include being a Sunday School Teacher? Or a Scout Leader in any one of the sponsored BSA troops? Would a chaste, celibate gay man be holding any leadership positions in the Priesthood?

(** so often the commentors here are paste & cut & run. )

Jaft
November 19th, 2008 | LINK

cowboy: that’s because there isn’t (at least that I’m aware of) a notification of comments, by E-mail or such. I know I forget where I commented or to check the posts again. Heh, watch – I’ll forget to check this later.

Ben in Oakland
November 19th, 2008 | LINK

You left off the rest of that sentence.

I’m just saying that no one hates or really disrespects gays at all as long at they conform to the relgious demands of the church, but will, of course, plan, fund, and implement a multi-state tens-of-millions of dollars effort to remove fundamental rights from those gay persons who follow a faith other than that dictated from Salt Lake City…

Timothy, and you left off the rest of that sentence…

and will call gay people a threat to family, faith, religion, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, marriage, children, and support that slander by any number of lies, distortions, and half truths, and innuendos (the queers are gonna get your children, but rarely said as brazenly as that).

Did i leave anything off?

Ben in Oakland
November 19th, 2008 | LINK

Oh yes, I did leave something off.

…and attack my marriage, the marirages of my firends, and their fmailies and cihldren, all in the name of saving their marriages from the mythical threat of mine.

Now, did i leave anything off?

cowboy
November 19th, 2008 | LINK

Oh…and one more thing, lee:

Of all the myriad of special groups in the LDS Church: the young adults, the singles wards, the Asian Wards, the Tongan Wards, the Latino Wards (you get the drift) and special gatherings for the young women and the Relief Society and all the dinner parties and the banquets in the Church:

NOT ONE GAY SUPPORT GROUP IN THE LDS CHURCH. NOTHING. NILL.

Forgive me for shouting.

You can’t say that the LDS Church is anything but a hostile environment for gays. Keep saying to yourself you have gays in your local Ward. Keep thinking that. I want you, Lee, and every other Mormon reading this right now: LOOK AROUND YOU at Sacrament Meeting this Sunday. Are there any gays there?

No…I didn’t think so.

Classic example of denial. Massive, rampant denial. Not even the more liberal LDS Wards in San Francisco or New York could find a gathering of gays sanctioned by the LDS Church. They have tried. The General Authorities at headquarters in Salt Lake City put a lid on any such outreach to gays…even to chaste gays.

Why?

Sapphocrat
November 19th, 2008 | LINK

Having lurked on many Mormon blogs and message boards lately to find the answer to the simple question, “WTF is wrong with these people?!?!”* I found the whiny blogger’s post tame by comparison — but it did give me a good laugh:

“A friend of mine told me today that he heard someone say, ‘Today we are all Mormons.’ That touched me…”

That’s funny — the first protest sign I came up with for the first post-8 protest we attended was: “WE ARE ALL MORMONS NOW… Whether you like it or not!

* Yes, count me officially among the “anti-Mormon” crowd now. I used to be completely indifferent — and unawares — until LDS, Inc., flipped the “on” switch in the brain implants of all its zombie soldiers and attacked my family.

The concerted anti-gay Mormon agenda goes much further back than Prop 8, and we all know it. If I wanted to live like a g.d. Mormon, I’d be a g.d. Mormon. To hell with the LDS — and I mean that literally, with all the condemnation an ex-Catholic can muster. I’d rather kiss Papa Ratzi’s ring than try to reason with these brain-dead drones.

Whew! Yes, I do feel better now, thanks.

Kel Munger
November 19th, 2008 | LINK

Gay people’s response surprised the Yes on 8 faction because they’re used to us just taking whatever they dish out. We have to respect their religious beliefs, as if those were somehow privileged above our own, but our lives are unworthy of similar respect.

So, yes, our reaction surprised them. We acted like regular people who’ve been disrespected to no end. We stood up and said, “No!”

And when victims stand up to bullies, it always surprises them.

werdna
November 19th, 2008 | LINK

Jaft-If you happen to remember to check back here I wanted to mention that though there’s no automatic notification you can subscribe to BTB’s RSS feed and keep an eye on every new post and comment.

Buffy
November 20th, 2008 | LINK

She’s such a bastion of moral fortitude. Why, she can eradicate the rights of millions of evil gays and bake cookies for the church bake sale simultaneously–all without breaking a sweat! Why are those nasty homos attacking her? :sarcasm:

Don’t fall for the baloney. Like my wife I’ve been following some of the Mormon blogs and discussion boards. They’re both crowing because “moral values” won out and playing the persecution card because we’ve dared to not take it lying down. They have mighty peculiar notions of how far their “religious freedoms” extend. One declared, for example, that if another person asked her to not perform posthumous baptisms on *their* deceased relatives she’d consider it an infringement on her right to practice her religion as she saw fit.

That’s what we’re up against. People who truly believe their “freedom of religion” extends to forcing us to live according to their religious beliefs by any means possible. If proselytization isn’t enough then they’ll use force of law to do it.

Jaft
November 20th, 2008 | LINK

Werdna – I actually did. Never used RSS much, but I’ll give it a shot. Thanks.

SharonB
November 20th, 2008 | LINK

Marjorie (Margie) Christofferson is not evil.

She is a good German, er Mormon.

cowboy
November 21st, 2008 | LINK

or a Dane.

Stefano A
December 8th, 2008 | LINK

The Advocate has reported that Frontiers magazine has reported Marj has resigned her position at the restaurant.

Bill Schoeppner, a fellow manager at El Coyote, told Frontiers that Christoffersen tendered her resignation that night. Christoffersen, described on the El Coyote website as the “matriarch” of the 77-year-old restaurant, will also be resigning from the restaurant’s board of directors.

Clicky

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