December 16th, 2008
— and he’s even eaten dinner in their homes! — but Rick Warren views their marriages as being equivalent to incest, child rape and polygamy:
Rick Warren: But the issue to me is, I’m not opposed to that as much as I’m opposed to the redefinition of a 5,000-year definition of marriage. I’m opposed to having a brother and sister be together and call that marriage. I’m opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that a marriage. I’m opposed to one guy having multiple wives and calling that marriage.
Steven Waldman: Do you think, though, that they are equivalent to having gays getting married?
Rick Warren: Oh I do. …
… Most people, you know… I have many gay friends, I’ve eaten dinner in gay homes, no church has probably done more for people with AIDS than Saddleback Church. Kay and I have given millions of dollars out of “A Purpose-Driven Life” helping people who got AIDS through gay relationships. So they can’t accuse me of homophobia. I just don’t beleive in the re-definition of marriage.
Rev. Warren used his pretext of “many gay friends” and the work that Saddleback Church has done for “people who got AID through gay relationships” to say, “they can’t accuse me of homophobia.”
But it seems to me that if a friend of mine said that my relationship was no different than having sex with my brother or sister or a young child, that person would no longer be my friend. And I’d most likely call him a homophobe.
I wonder what Rick Warren’s “many gay friends” think?
Here is the full transcript:
Steven Waldman: Which do you think is a greater threat to the American family? Divorce or gay marriage?
Rick Warren:Haha! That’s a no-brainer. Divorce. There’s no doubt about it. Here’s an interesting thing. The divorce statistics are quite bandied around. People say, well half of marriages end in divorce. That’s just not true. Forty percent of first-time marriages end in divorce. Forty percent. About 61% of second-time marriages end in divorce, and almost 75% of third-time marriages end in divorce. So the odds get worse, and what’s balancing this out when you hear 50% ends in divorce, it’s just not true. The majority of marriages do last. But what you have is these people who are second, third, fourth time, who are getting married again and so the divorces keep coming in to equal the marriages.
Steven Waldman: So why do we hear so much more, especially from religious conservatives, about gay marriage than about divorce?
Rick Warren: Oh, we always love to talk about others’ sins more than ours. You know, why do we hear more about, you know, drug use than being overweight. Okay, why do we hear more about, you know, anything else besides wasting time? Or gossip? We want to point out… my sins are perfectly acceptable. Your sins are hideous and evil. [laughs]
Steven Waldman: Now you, one controversial moment for you in the last election was your support for proposition 8 in California. A couple of questions about that. First, to clarify, do you support civil unions or domestic partnerships?
Rick Warren: I don’t know if I use the term there, but I support full equal rights for everybody in America. I don’t believe that we should have unequal rights depending on particular lifestyles or whatever stuff like that. So I fully support equal rights.
Steven Waldman: But what about, like, partnership benefits in terms of insurance or hospital visitation?
Rick Warren: You know, to me, not a problem with me. But the issue to me is, I’m not opposed to that as much as I’m opposed to the redefinition of a 5,000-year definition of marriage. I’m opposed to having a brother and sister be together and call that marriage. I’m opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that a marriage. I’m opposed to one guy having multiple wives and calling that marriage.
Steven Waldman:Do you think, though, that they are equivalent to having gays getting married?
Rick Warren:Oh I do. I just… For five thousand years, marriage has been defined by every single culture and every single religion — this is not a Christian issue. Buddhists, Muslims, the Jews, historically marriage is a man and a woman. And so I’m opposed to that. And the reason I supported Prop 8 really, was a free speech issue. Because if it had…. First, the court overid the will of the people. But second, is, there were all kinds of threats that if you… that did not pass, then any pastor could be considered doing hate speech if he shared his views that he didn’t think homosexuality was the most natural way for relationships. And that would be hate speech. To me, we should have freedom of speech. And you should be able to have freedom of speech to make your position, and I should be able to have freedom of speech to make my position. And can we do this in a civil way?
Most people, you know… I have many gay friends, I’ve eaten dinner in gay homes, no church has probably done more for people with AIDS than Saddleback Church. Kay and I have given millions of dollars out of “A Purpose-Driven Life” helping people who got AIDS through gay relationships. So they can’t accuse me of homophobia. I just don’t beleive in the re-definition of marriage.
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