Presbyterian Church Approves Gay Ordination

Jim Burroway

May 11th, 2011

Earlier this month, Timothy Kincaid wrote that the Presbyterian Church was on the cusp of allowing gay non-celibate ministers in committed relationships to be ordained. At the time, 80 regional presbyteries had ratified the change of 87 needed, with 33 left to vote. Last week, the Presbyterian Church (USA) reached that milestone:

With the vote of its regional organization in Minnesota, the Presbyterian Church USA became the fourth mainline Protestant church to allow gay ordination, following the Episcopal and Evangelical Lutheran churches and the United Church of Christ. The Minnesota vote was closely followed by one in Los Angeles.

This is the fourth time the Presbyterian Church has voted on gay ordination, with each vote becoming more progressively pro-gay. One elder and deacon explained why she was among those who had changed her mind with this vote.

“I finally decided at the age of 63 that it is inevitable,” she said. “I think it’s like letting black people come to white churches, or letting women become ministers. It’s inevitable.”

Still, she couldn’t help but express surprise. “For the Presbyterian Church, which is a mainline church, a graying church, it’s something.”

The Presbyterian Church currently does not sanction same-sex marriage. In 2010, the church narrowly defeated a proposal to change the qualifications for marriage from “man and woman” to “two persons.” This vote may well be a harbinger for a change to the church’s stand on marriage in the near future.


May 11th, 2011

Numerous previous “No” votes turned to “Yes” votes. I wonder if ANY “Yes” votes turned to “No” votes? I sincerely doubt it. I can’t believe that there is anyone out there who can’t see the writing on the wall. What I find even harder to believe is how they don’t realize that their continuing to stand against gay civil equality will in the very near future leave them being remembered in the same way that we remember racists, segregationists and bigots from the 50’s and 60’s.

Timothy Kincaid

May 11th, 2011

I have to laugh at Deacon Linda Fleming’s comments. She is so proud of the decision of her church, such a modern approach even though it is “graying”.

I guess it’s a reminder that there are a lot of Linda Flemings out there. They may be voting against us today, but once they change their minds they are going to be so proud of the changes in society and in their own thinking.

Timothy Kincaid

May 11th, 2011


I think a lot of folk who were segregationists in the 50’s and 60’s – not the leaders but the average folk who were just keeping things how they had always been – see it from the perspective of how they are now.

They’ll see the few tiny holdouts and televised interviews with a toothless KKK member and be so proud of themselves because “oh, I gave up that decades ago. All that race foolishness. I support the civil rights, I even voted for Obama!”

One is more inclined to see one’s own improved attitudes and forget one’s bigotry from the past. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing. After all, we do want to encourage change.

But I tell ya, there will be some for whom I’ll be earning my Oscar when i say, “I am so happy you are supporting us now on this issue.”

Ah C

July 1st, 2012

If gay marriage is ok, why not make polygamy, incest, or pedophilia, OK?

And all of aforementioned in the name of ‘LOVE’ will justify them all?

Do the “ends” justify the “means” at any cost?

Are gays really being honest with themselves and others in “coming out of the closet”? Why the need for gay “pride” in the first place decades ago?

Perhaps someone can explain why they want to shame others for their hate or homophobia when they themselves needed to advertise and promote their own “pride” well before anyone knew about gay pride?

Doesn’t the medical community recommend that you, “Wash your hands after you go to the bathroom.”?

Yet, now there are some in the medical community that now say it’s OK to “Sleep with the waste that gets flushed down in the toilet?” and that it’s possible to live a perfectly normal life.

Timothy Kincaid

July 1st, 2012

Ah C,

It’s clear that you are unhappy about gay people. But it is also clear that you have put very little thought into the matter. You also seem very confused about gay pride, sexuality, and most everything else.

I don’t think there’s much point in debating with you, I doubt you will be back. But if you do read this, please understand that it is comments of this sort that remind gay people that there are those out there who hate them. Who blindly and self-righteously dole out hate.

And this is evident far beyond just gay people. Those who may be ambivalent or have mixed views see your words and know them to be invalid and hurtful. Through your expressions of hatred you encourage people of good will to support gay equality.

You do a great disservice to yourself and to those who share your views.

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