32 responses

  1. TN
    March 9, 2012

    We find out how people really feel when they say things that just “slipped out”. It’s nice to know that she thinks it’s an insult to call someone gay. Very disappointing.

  2. David Waite
    March 9, 2012

    All right, call me an elitist or whatever, but I’ve got to come clean about this: I despise her whole family and this relieves my mind. Mind you, it doesn’t justify my contempt for them, which is a weakness on my part, but it makes me feel better about my wrong attitude toward them.

    Some people bring out the worst in us (which has to be there in order to be brought out). That’s what the Kardashians do for me.

  3. Tone
    March 10, 2012

    Goodness what an unfortunate person! Is she actually proud of herself? She claims in her defense that some of her best friends are gay? Really? Really?

    Celebrity has jumped the shark.

  4. Theo
    March 10, 2012

    “Khloe seems to have . . . very little understanding of LGBT people.”

    I’m gay and I have no understanding of “LGBT people.” In fact, I am not aware that there is any such thing as “LGBT people.” And I don’t understand why otherwise intelligent bloggers put their brains on the shelf and use reactionary, stereotype-driven terminology which equates being gay with crossdressing and transsexuality.

  5. Regan DuCasse
    March 10, 2012

    That family is such a virus. I don’t think I’ve ever seen people so famous just for self promotion, and NOTHING else.

    There friends of mine that are nurses, first responders, any number of unsung heroic people in my city that love what they do, and are good to the people they serve.
    They save lives or they might be like my younger sister, a lawyer, works in a law firm that advocates for special needs kids.

    And then, there are the Kardashians…who get gushing compliments from the public who say they ADMIRE the Kardashians.
    Wait, WHAT? WTF for?!
    And I have to think to myself, it’s truly horrible to live in a society where no talent, mediocre people who don’t even PRETEND to do anything meaningful for anyone, DEMAND attention for themselves and huge amounts of money to do it.

    Vomit inducing. For. Real.

  6. Samiimas
    March 10, 2012

    ya Theo for what possible reason would a group treated like crap for not following gender norms *its not a coincidence gays get stereotyped as feminine while lesbians are stereotyped as masculine* be put under the same umbrella as another group treated like crap for not following gender norms?

  7. Priya Lynn
    March 10, 2012

    Give it up already Theo. LGBT doesn’t equate being gay with cross dressing and transexuality anymore than a group of black and white people opposed to racism says blacks are whites and whites are blacks. To equate being gay with transexuality and crossdressing there’d have to be one term for all, not an acronym of 4 different terms.

  8. Tone
    March 10, 2012

    Theo when I use LGBT in a sentence, or sometimes just to change it up GLBT, I’m not equating myself with a transgendered person. I’m merely affirming that there is room under the umbrella for us both.

    What you’re doing is trying to crowd them out, shove them back out into the rain of oppression and intolerance. Well I won’t have it and I won’t let you do it mister.

  9. Timothy Kincaid
    March 10, 2012

    Theo,

    You need to let go of your knee-jerk reaction to the term LGBT. While there are times to speak of gay people and transgender people separately, this is one in which the term LGBT truly applies.

    In one breath Khloe spoke about “her gay community” and the “tranny look-alike contest”.

    To speak only of gay people or only of transgender people would require ignoring what she said.

  10. Ben In Atlanta
    March 10, 2012

    I have to go for the funny (to me anyway):

    http://www.superiorpics.com/laura_kightlinger/

    It’s the first line in the article. At least she knows what a drag queen is.

  11. Theo
    March 10, 2012

    I don’t harp on this all the time and I don’t want to be a bore about it. But since this post was about how people use terminology like “homo” thoughtlessly, I thought it was worth pointing out that there is plenty of thoughtless jargon that gets a pass because it is either politically correct or because our gay leaders insist upon using it. I am not in church and I am not going to redefine myself as “LGBT” just because some unelected drones at the Task Force or HRC tell me that I should.

    Priya, you have offered that defense of LGBT before. It is a noble effort, but if all LGBT means is that gays and trans people are discrete groups that simply share a common opposition to bigotry, then we wouldn’t refer to “LGBT people.” “People” means one group with a common identity. No such unitary group exists. And if the phrase is meant to be a shorthand for “different sexual minority groups who oppose bigotry” we would use that term in contexts that had to do with fighting bigotry. We certainly wouldn’t refer to “LGBT people” as an general alternative reference for “gay” any more than we would use “anti-racism people” in lieu of Blacks or African-Americans. They are 2 entirely different things.

  12. Jim Hlavac
    March 10, 2012

    Oh, I don’t understand at all why there’s a B or a T in LGBT — nope. I don’t know either type either. (well, one transsexual, who hates my guts, for being gay.) Meanwhile, bisexuals seem to hide behind their women, but are gay folks not come out yet (Str8t acting, in their ads, of course, and where are the Bisexual bars?)

    And transgendered folks, mostly men, are men who say they are women in the wrong body — then they get a sex change operation, and change their gender to female, then go look for a man. Well, logically then, transgendered men are women in men’s bodies looking for heterosexual relationships as soon as they become physical women. And Chaz Bono was a girl who became a guy to find a girl. Which sounds awfully hetero to me.

    And what our gay political leaders did by adding B & T to the mix is add confusion to the issue by making it seem as if all gay folks are gender confused — and as a gay man I have never been remotely gender confused — hell, I never even so much as kissed or dated a girl, and certainly have no sex interest in one. And I find it absolutely amazing that within a few years of “Homosexuality” being removed from teh Psyho-Psychiatric manuals all of a sudden “gender confused” was added to the mix. Thanks Transgendered folks for that, for I’m not gender confused, they are.

    So Theo, you are right — what on earth do transexuals have to do with gay folks? And when, 2 decades ago that B & T were added I simply stopped supporting any LGBT organization ever again. Nope, not a dime or time.

    And by the logic many use here to trash Theo then why not just make it LGBTHQXYZ — who else do we add? — and so add heteros to the mix too, you know, the H. Hell, it makes more sense if we’re all the same.

  13. Priya Lynn
    March 10, 2012

    Jim, adding a B&T to the group doesn’t make gay people seem gender confused anymore than a group of whites and blacks against racism makes whites seem like blacks or blacks seem like whites. You and Theo are both imagining something that doesn’t exist in order to feel insulted.

  14. Samiimas
    March 10, 2012

    “And transgendered folks, mostly men, are men who say they are women in the wrong body — then they get a sex change operation, and change their gender to female, then go look for a man. Well, logically then, transgendered men are women in men’s bodies looking for heterosexual relationships as soon as they become physical women. And Chaz Bono was a girl who became a guy to find a girl. Which sounds awfully hetero to me”

    The majority of transexuals like the opposite sex, just like the majority of humanity likes the opposite sex, but their are plenty of us who like the very sex we’re transitioning to and don’t appreciate you spouting ignorant stuff like this. The T gets included because we’re despised for the exact same reason as the L, G and B, because we don’t do what’s ‘normal’ for our gender, and we have to deal with the exact same bigotry because of it. Just because you and theo don’t like having us around doesn’t we don’t belong.

    I won’t even bother with the insulting and idiotic idea that bisexuals are just gay and afraid to admit it. I’ll leave that for the bisexuals to rip apart.

  15. MCB
    March 10, 2012

    Mr. Hlavac,
    I know you may never have met a “real” bisexual person, but I have. Several, actually. They tend to have a “type” like everyone else, it’s just that it overlaps with two genders. Nor is it always 50-50; some bisexual people somewhat prefer members of their own gender, while others somewhat prefer those of the other.

    As to why there are no bisexual bars, the answer would be that there is no law saying you can’t go to both straight and gay bars. Ideally, someday in the future most bars with be “bisexual bars,” as straight people get over a fear of being hit on by members of their own gender (as a straight woman, I’ve been hit on by guys I’m not interested in, so why should it bother me if a woman did?).

    My experience with transsexual people is slimmer, but one of the people I knew in college was ftm and attracted to men, so your argument is bogus.

  16. Ryan
    March 10, 2012

    Gee, with folks like Theo and Jim around, who needs Porno Pete or Maggie Gallagher? (“Bisexuals don’t exist because there are no bisexual bars”. That truly takes a special ignoramus to come up with that one).

  17. Jim Burroway
    March 10, 2012

    I’ll add that not only have I really met bisexual people, but I’ve also met a slew of transgender people of both genders and, literally, all sexual orientations. Jim Hlavic clearly hasn’t the slightest clue as to what he’s talking about. I would suggest he go out and actually get to know some of the people he thinks doesn’t exist, or who only exist in the particular limited configurations of his imagination.

    And generally speaking, people seriously need to get over their gender issues.

  18. Samiimas
    March 10, 2012

    I googled ‘bisexual bar’ and apparently their actually is one in San Francisco.

  19. Jim Hlavac
    March 10, 2012

    Always nice to be trashed for logic — transsexuals are heteros – in the wrong body — ask them. Listen to them. Follow what they way. It’s quite illuminating.

    And Ryan, how dare you compare me to Maggie or Porno Pete? — Egad, you know me not. Typical liberal crap. More politically correct mush from liberals, frankly. And frankly, I don’t give a damn. I’ve been opposed to adding B & T to L&G for some 30 years. I’m not going to stop now. It’s one reason no gay group has gotten a dime from me in 30 years. Oh well, we gays lose, eh, while everyone is all concerned with transsexuals. Every single network has had specials on transsexuals — and nary a one on gay men. Even Lesbians get a better deal. Oh well, screw us gay men, eh?

    As for Priya Lynn, it’s not what I or you think that matters, it’s what our opponents think — and now they all think that gay men are gender confused. Since I don’t just comment on gay sites, and wander far more to the Right Wing, to engage our enemies instead of preaching to the choir, on sites where not one friggin’ gay person ever comments, sites that would curl your hair, and where I do more for gay folks than merely bleating that if I don’t adhere to the LGBT mush, well, that’s what our opponents ask me: “So you think you’re a girl?” And well, what am I to say? Well, I tell ‘em: “No, I don’t think I’m a girl, I know I’m not a transsexual, I’m not gender confused.” I don’t understand what their problem is. And I wish them well, I truly do — but their problem is not mine, and my problem is not theirs. And I’m definitely fed up paying for gender reassignment surgery with my taxes so some newly minted girl can find the man of her dreams and legally get married while I’m denied basic human rights while I pay those taxes and am denied marriage.

    Even more amazing is that when Gary Gates of the Williams Institute came out with the utterly bizarre count that there are exactly 2,491,034 (down to the 34th of us!) gay men, and 791,000 transsexuals, I was like, are you out of your minds? And that folks, is the problem with the Left-Right split in this country. The Right looks to logic, and the Left casts aspersions. And this split is among heteros as much among gays.

    Now, let’s try it again, with logic, all together: Transsexuals are men in women’s bodies who want to get their junk cut off so they can be women to find men, and then they can legally get married has heteros. And hetero problems are not mine. And well, last I looked, women who wanted men are heteros. Go figure, eh? But don’t touch my junk. Until then, I reserve the right to tell transsexuals to solve their own problems, and their problem has nothing to do with me and my gay men friends.

  20. Ryan
    March 10, 2012

    Jim H, are you seriously suggesting that transsexuals are better portrayed in the media than gays? Seriously?
    Can you name a single regular transsexual character in all of television? Even one?

    And those right wing websites you visit; believe me, they don’t care if you think you’re a girl or you just like smoking pole. Either way, you’re equally as “perverted” and hell-bound.

    As to your refusal to support gay right’s causes because they dare include those confused junk-removing trannys and non-existent bisexuals, well done. The last 30 years of “liberal crap” have been nothing but an abysmal failure as far as gay rights are concerned. You sure showed’em!

  21. Ryan
    March 10, 2012

    @Samiimas,

    I live in LA, and most “gay” bars here have a healthy mix of gays, lesbians, and about 10-20% straights. (And of course, any of them could also be bisexuals).

  22. Ryan
    March 10, 2012

    @Jim Hlavac,

    I googled the “Williams Institute” and came up with this article last year where Gary Gates estimated that there were nine million gays and lesbians in the US.

    http://lgbtpov.frontiersla.com/2011/04/26/the-williams-institute-reports-9-million-lgbt-people-in-the-u-s-–-video-photos-

    Where did you get that specific number? A “logic” based right wing site?
    (Also not sure how you can say the right wing is “logical” and also hates you and thinks you want to be a woman).

  23. Martin
    March 10, 2012

    @Jim Hlavac:

    Always nice to be trashed for logic — transsexuals are heteros – in the wrong body — ask them. Listen to them. Follow what they way. It’s quite illuminating.

    A significant number of transsexuals identify as gay, lesbian, or bi after transition. This ought not to be surprising, since gender and sexual orientation are distinct from each other.

    If listened to more trans people, you would probably know this.

  24. StraightGrandmother
    March 10, 2012

    I guess I’ll put my toe in here. Actually I prefer Sexual Minorities. That covers everybody without having to be specific, and have human beings represented by an acronym.

    When using the word gay, we should say “people who are gay” rather than “gay people”.

    By using the word People before the word gay you are first and foremost recognizing that they are a person. Their sexual orientation or sexual identity is second to them being a person.

    If you are going to use LGBT then is would be better to say, “people who are LGBT” always put the person first.

    But again I think Sexual Minorities is a better term and has the advantage of the association to Civil Rights by virtue of the word Minorities.

    There is a right wing website I often comment on and all the Fundies absolutely HATE my use of the term Sexual Minorities, so that right there shows you it is a good term. “They are not a Minority, why are you calling them a Minority?” “They’re homosexuals, they are not a minority”

    Darn right men who are gay (notice I put the fact that he is a man first and gay second), women who are lesbian, persons who are bi-sexual or transgender are a minority, and their Civil Rights are being trampled on by the majority.

    Just try using the term yourself for a week or so, you’ll see.

  25. Samiimas
    March 10, 2012

    “Now, let’s try it again, with logic, all together: Transsexuals are men in women’s bodies who want to get their junk cut off so they can be women to find men, and then they can legally get married has heteros. And hetero problems are not mine. And well, last I looked, women who wanted men are heteros. Go figure, eh? But don’t touch my junk. Until then, I reserve the right to tell transsexuals to solve their own problems, and their problem has nothing to do with me and my gay men friends.”

    Wait a minute… Ronald Gold is that you!? You old nut! Is this where you’ve been since they kicked you off Bilerico? Trolling comments sections?

    Seriously though, let’s break down your ‘logic':

    1. You claim transsexuals are men who want to be straight women. I’m a transsexual who’s going to be a lesbian. You are wrong

    2. Let’s imagine you get your wish. Every single LGB, er woops, LG grou kicks out the Ts and publically repudiates us as crossdressing weirdoes who will never have their support ever again. Do you seriously think your right wing friends would abandon the stereotype of gay men as feminine limp wrist who talks with a lisp and walks a tiny poodle on his way to a drag show? Or that lesbians will stop being stereotyped as brawny softball players? If you wanna find the source for those stereotypes look at the right-wing pseudoscientists who claim boys grow up to be gay because their dads didn’t make them play football.

    Don’t even try blaming us transpeople for the drag shows either. I thought that’d be a nice place to meet fellow transwomen, but all the ones I googled around here where at gay bars. *well they call it a ‘showbar’, but the entire staff is hunky shirtless men so I’m assuming…*

    3. That you’re somehow being robbed because your taxes ay for sex changes. I’m assuming this is some sort of universal health care in your country in which case I’d like to see what medical credentials you have to declare that Gender Identity Disorder is not a condition that should be treated just like any other. I can tell you from personal experience that being stuck as the wrong gender can lead to depression and contemlating suicide and I wish I lived in a country enlightened enough to acknowledge that reality.

    4. That gay men don’t get a positive portayal in media like transsexuals do. It must be awful only have Will and Grace, Glee, Elton John, George Takei, Neil Patrick Harris and whatever other gay male celebrities or gaycentric TV shows I couldn’t name off the to of my head. We have it so great with shows like ‘Work It’ which still use as as a joke and the movies and specials that usually feature one of us getting raped or beaten up.

    PS: Why did you not follow up with more ‘logic’ about how bisexuals are just gay guys hiding behind women? I think it’s because you know you can’t defend that idea with anything resembling logic so you went after an easier target instead.

  26. Samiimas
    March 11, 2012

    *Brokeback Mountain! that was the big gay male movie I forget. I’ll take that over Girls Don’t Cry or the Crying Game anyday. See my point? The only two transsexual films I could think of both have ‘Cry’ in the title!

  27. Désirée
    March 11, 2012

    And I’m a post-op male to female transsexual married to a woman. There ya go. You are wrong. Not just misinformed or a little wrong, but whole, fully and completely 100% wrong. No surprise really. It takes a special kind of idiot to claim his ignorance is “logic.”

  28. Eric in Oakland
    March 11, 2012

    Jim Hlavac said, “The Right looks to logic”…

    Hahahaha!
    So, Santorun, Bachmann, etc. are your idea of logical? Teabaggers are logical? Also, it saddens me when a member of a despised minority (a gay man, for instance) displays clear bigotry towards another minority. He should know better. How can you expect straight people to consider your position when you refuse to do the same?

  29. Priya Lynn
    March 11, 2012

    The sad part is that all manner of bisexuals and transgendered people have worked hard to give Jim Hlavac equal rights as a gay man and he is too selfish to show any gratitude.

  30. Blake
    March 12, 2012

    @Samiimas: Have you seen Transamerica? I remember enjoying it when I saw it but I don’t remember it well enough to say it was good or bad depiction of Trans folks.

    Regarding alphabet soup: there was a youth organization in ATL for a while that used LGBTQTQ as their acronym de guerre. The extra Ts to cover Transsexual along with Transgender, the Qs for Queer & Questioning. It made sense in a youth context, but even so the youths the organization were serving bristled at the overly sensitive acronym. Especially whenever anyone tried to add a new category (there was an S in there for a while). I’m not saying I agree with the sentiments expressed by those who are intolerant, I’m just saying SGM might be on to something.

    Regarding that certain Armenian family I think Tone nailed it: Celebrity has jumped the shark.

  31. Boo
    March 13, 2012

    The Jackie O suits they had her wearing in Transamerica seemed just a bit ridiculous. That being said I’ve only ever seen clips of the movie.

  32. StraightGrandmother
    March 13, 2012

    Blake, “I’m not saying I agree with the sentiments expressed by those who are intolerant, I’m just saying SGM might be on to something.”

    StraightGrandmother = I am on to something. All I ask is for people to try it. Jim & Timothy and all of you commentors, for one week, where you would normally use a different term, instead write Sexual Minorities.

    I also recently changed. I used to write Civil Marriage for Sexual Minorities. Always always being careful to NEVER write the word “Marriage” without the word “Civil” in front of it. But then somebody suggested a better one, so now that is the one I use now.

    “Same Gender Civil Marriage”

    I rarely get into religious discussions, instead re-directing the conversation always back to “Civil Marriage” but if I do, I always use the words “Holy Marriage” Typically I will say, “What you are talking about is Holy Marriage, the discussion is about Same Gender Civil Marriage.”

    No need to use the word Equality even. If you are flexible in your character, just for a week, try commenting and writing with the words “Sexual Minorities” Just try it out, that is all.

    It gets the word sex out of there.

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