Box Turtle Bulletin

These people are not homophobic. They don’t fear gays, they just hate us.

a. mcewen

Someone should alert Mike Huckabee.

David

Huckabee would dismiss it; “Oh, that doesn’t count, they were not really gay”

jeff

typical redneck trash.

Why did God make rednecks?? I guess even he can make mistakes.

Emily K

No, the answer would be that “all murder is wrong” and bullshit like that. They refuse to see that we are murdered for being like who we ARE. and even the STRAIGHT community suffers.

What kind of world must we live in when affection between two men is so disdained?? What a horrible place to grow up male.

HappyCat

It is stories like these that make me cry. Gay or Straight, it doesn’t matter, man’s inhumanity to man.

These people who did this are the same group that Bible Spice (Sarah Palin) attracted to the McCain/Palin campaign ralleys.

But this attack was just good ole christians exercizing their good ole christian faith.

Michael

When will society live and let live? Yes, this is the perfect example of Man’s inhumanity to Man. May God comfort the family.

Dave

jeff: “typical redneck trash.”

I thought the slur redneck was only properly used against white people. The assailants here were black men.

Dave

HappyCat: “These people who did this are the same group that Bible Spice (Sarah Palin) attracted to the McCain/Palin campaign ralleys.”

Nice bit of slander there, HappyCat.

Well, not really. A very poor attempt actually. Palin didn’t seem to help the McCain campaign make any inroads with the urban black community.

paul J stein

Gay bashing happens to ANYONE who can/is perceived to be gay. A straight buddy of mine (liberal redneck)was harassed by another straight guy for 6 months. He was using my vehicles for work with pride flags posted. Supervisors did NOTHING for 6 months. Now he’s having chest pains and anxiety attacks wondering how he’s gonna support his family since they laid him off and kept the basher employed. Oh ya , the company he worked for is a “Home Interiors” company in northern OHIO that is GAY OWNED and up till now had a great rating for diversity. Go figure!

It seems not to have helped that the brothers were Latinos.

Regan DuCasse

The heartbreak is endless…I saw the surviving brother on the news.
He said that he and his brother go arm in arm all the time. His brother was visiting after not seeing each other in a long while.

In the interview, he said “People should be able to love each other, and who they love doesn’t matter. This is a free place, we are here for that”.

It tore my heart out. In his way, this man was speaking for ALL OF US!
Such grace for his pain.

My prayers, love and everything go out to the family.

AJD

I just read in the NY Times that he died.

JJQR

Thank you, Dave. We have to remain truthful as to who committed (and often commits) these kinds of homophobic assaults. Thanks for correcting their false wishful thinking.

Dave

You’re welcome, JJQR.

Ryan

I’m no fan of Huckabee, but I don’t think it’s right to invoke his name here. He has in no way advocated this kind of behavior. There are other, more extreme right wingers like Falwell, Phelps, Keyes, etc., whose comments inspire this level of hatred. But I don’t believe Huckabee is one of those people. He is a mild garden-variety homophobe.

Timothy Kincaid

Ryan,

I think the point was that Huckabee recently suggested that gays are unlike blacks because gays haven’t been subjected to physical violence on the same level.

John

I am a little disturbed by the tone of some comments that seem to suggest that since the attackers were black, that white homphobes can somehow wash the blood of this attack from their hands.

Constantly reinforcing the message that gays are a threat to our children, our institutions, our religious freedom and our general well being doesn’t make this society a safer society to live in if you are gay. Also, doing everything one can to minimize the criminal penalties that these sort of criminals recieve for their violence is right up there with aiding and abetting, as far as I am concerned.

Complicating the picture in this case is the unbelievably racist (anti-Hispanic) tone of the Republican primary campaign up to the selection of Sen McCain. McCain didn’t make much mention of immigration once he had the nomination, but we were hearing about if for about 2 years before that. Right wingers like Lou Dobbs continue to drone on about it. Wealthy well educated whites aren’t terribly threatened by Hispanic immigrants taking their jobs. However, less skilled white and black workers feel more vulnerable.

It might make some people feel less uncomfortable if they keep reminding themselves that the high profile homophobes didn’t swing the bat or hit these guys with their feet and fists. But they are kidding themselves by trying to pretend there is no connection, when they work so hard to maintain the hostile enviornment in which these attacks occur.

JJQR

Those attackers probably never heard of Huckabee. Blame violent gangsta rap for this case.

John

JJQR wrote: “Those attackers probably never heard of Huckabee. Blame violent gangsta rap for this case.”

So, are we to assume by this comment that you are referring to all young people as not being politically informed, or is this more directed toward young black men? Or is it the subset of young men who commit vicious hate crimes (regardless of their race)?

I doubt that not all young thugs in our society listen to gansta rap. We also saw unprecedented interest in the 2008 Presidential election by young people of all races.

I don’t have a problem with feeling strongly that violent criminals deserve to be punished for their crimes, but I am not comfortable with punishing an entire class of people (young black men) for crimes they didn’t commit. After all, with support, hard work and opportunity, a young black man might just grow up and become President some day.

Emily K

I think another important thing to remember is that nobody in either party was white. We also have no idea the socio-economic status of any of the men. Or do we? I am not privy to this info. People who are college-educated are much less likely to be homophobic. In addition, ideas of masculinity in the black and hispanic communities are much harsher than whites. This is why the “down low” culture is so pervasive in those groups. Now, the victims came from a country where physical affection is normal between brothers. But here in America it’s not. It looks like a cultural clash all ways around – not just a homophobic one. Which makes it all the more shameful.

Dave

December 15th, 2008

“Complicating the picture in this case is the unbelievably racist (anti-Hispanic) tone of the Republican primary campaign up to the selection of Sen McCain.”

What unbelievably racist tone? Wanting to gain control of our border with Mexico is hardly evidence of racism.

“Wealthy well educated whites arenâ€™t terribly threatened by Hispanic immigrants taking their jobs. However, less skilled white and black workers feel more vulnerable.”

Hispanic immigrants aren’t the concern. What worries people is illegal immigrants taking jobs and lowering wages.

Jason D

“Those attackers probably never heard of Huckabee. Blame violent gangsta rap for this case.”

I prefer to blame the individuals for their own actions, not artists who may or may not be fanning flames or simply acting as the mouthpiece for what their fans ALREADY think and feel.

And yes swampfox, these are homophobes. Hate is a strong emotion, it does not come from a neutral or confident place. It comes from fear. They may not be intimidated by gays, but they certainly fear them.

John

Dave,

If you haven’t figured out that the primary concern among the right wing anti-immigrant advocates is Hispanic immigrants, you are just ignoring the obvious. They don’t hide it, so I am not sure why you are trying to do so.

If you lived in California, you would know the history of the demise of the Republican Party in our state. Republican Pete Wilson used immigrant bashing to squeak out a victory or two. As a result, Hispanics in CA now view the Republican Party as anti-Hispanic racists. Other than Schwartzennegger (who really is more of a celebrity candidate, rather than a Republican), Republicans are screwed in CA and may remain a minority party for another generation.

You can pretend as much as you want that the anti-immigrant bashing is anti-Hispanic racism, but Hispanic AMERICAN VOTERS clearly see it for what it is and have voted accordingly.

Dave

John,

I don’t see why I should care about what you consider the demise of the California Republican Party or the reasons you give for it. I responded to your comment about the GOP presidential primaries, which involve the entire country.

If you havenâ€™t figured out that the primary concern among the right wing anti-immigrant advocates is Hispanic immigrants, you are just ignoring the obvious. They donâ€™t hide it, so I am not sure why you are trying to do so.

The largest source of illegal aliens in the U.S. is the border with Mexico. It is natural therefore that people worried about illegal immigration should be more than a little annoyed with Mexico. But it does not follow that such people are motivated by anti-Mexican sentiment.

That some of these people are anti-Mexican are anti-Latino doesn’t mean that they all are. Remember, it is bigotry to generalize like this.

If the source of most U.S. illegal aliens was China, the left would say that opposition to illegal immigration was motivated by anti-Chinese prejudice. If most illegal aliens were from India, they’d say that bias against Indians was causing the illegal immigration concerns. And on and on and on with every place on earth (or at least the non-European places). This is a glaring non-sequiter.

You can pretend as much as you want that the anti-immigrant bashing is anti-Hispanic racism, but Hispanic AMERICAN VOTERS clearly see it for what it is and have voted accordingly.

And you, John, can pretend that all Americans who disagree with you on illegal immigraton are racists. Those who care about the territorial sovereignty of the United States, however, see your slander for what it is. And they too vote accordingly.

John