Carrie Prejean’s New Career: Anti-Gay Activist

Timothy Kincaid

April 29th, 2009

When Carrie Prejean, Miss California, bumblingly told the Miss USA audience that she chooses “opposite marriage” and believes that “a marriage should be between a man and a woman”, I mostly ignored the situation. We tend to pay less attention to the ignorance of the misinformed and focus more on the deliberate deceptions of anti-gay activists.

However, as the story lingered way beyond its freshness date I wrote a commentary noting that Prejean was startlingly ignorant on a number of issues surrounding sexual orientation. Yet still I thought the story was but momentary and not particularly relevant to our efforts.

But now it seems that Prejean may be taking steps to turn her moment of foolishness into a career of hostility and bigotry.

And that brings her into our spotlight.

What Carrie Prejean believes

To understand Prejean\’s motivations, we have to understand what she believes.

We know that she opposes marriage equality and believes that homosexuality is “a behavior that develops over time”. But her opinions have been developed in a stew of bigotry that goes far beyond misinformation about the bases of orientation.

Carrie Prejean attends a church that has strong opinions on the subject of sexuality and marriage. Miles McPherson, a football player turned pastor, was one of the driving forces behind the evangelical support for Proposition 8. In addition to anti-gay rallies at his church, McPherson was a proponent of the notoriously untruthful website for youth,

Miles McPherson, one of Prop 8’s proponents and senior pastor of the Rock Church in San Diego, says the site aims to reach out to all young voters, especially those who support same-sex marriage for the wrong reasons.

“Right now they’re driven by the wrong information and a lot of emotion,” said McPherson, a former NFL player with the San Diego Chargers. “They’ll say, ‘I don’t want to be called a bigot. I don’t want to discriminate,'” said McPherson.

It seems that McPherson falls into the camp of Christians that believe that honesty and truth are optional and far subsidiary to “fighting the homosexual agenda”. In a message in February 2008, he said,

The homosexual agenda is being pushed upon this nation, to the point where it may become illegal for pastors to preach against homosexuality from the pulpit, that is where even such preaching is deemed a crime. In some countries this is already the case. Keep in mind this battle is not about gay people, rather it is a spiritual battle in which we are fighting the devil!

And it was in this imagery of spiritual battle against evil that Prejean formed her “biblical correctness”. And it is among his youthful warriors (the average attendant\’s age is under 30), that Carrie takes her place.

And McPherson is not hesitant to equip his warriors with the tools of political victory, with unvarnished lies a chief weapon. In addition to the blatant falsehoods on the Prop 8 website, McPherson\’s church, The Rock in San Diego, says the following about gays in a piece written by McPherson entitled Sodom and Gomorrah, A City Inflamed

Consequences of a Homosexual Lifestyle

God’s Word tells us differently and He provides us of the evidence that homosexuality is not natural or normal. There are physiological repercussions from homosexual behavior; male homosexuals are 430 times more likely to contract HIV than a heterosexual, while heterosexuals have a 1-in-750,000 chance of contracting the virus responsible for HIV, a male homosexual has a 1-in-165 chance of getting HIV. A 20 year old gay male has a 30% chance of either dying or contracting AIDS before the age of 30. They are also 23 times more likely to get other sexually transmitted diseases than a heterosexual.

There are also moral repercussions stemming from homosexual behavior as evidenced by the fact that one third of all sexual crimes against children are committed by homosexuals even though they are representative of only one percent of the population. Pedophilia has even been called central to the gay lifestyle. The agenda of the North American Man Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) is to lower the age of consent so that sex with children will be legal.

I wrote to several pastors at the church earlier in the week to inform them that their claims about AIDS were mathematically impossible and in conflict with the literature and statistics provided by health organizations. I also corrected their false claims about child molestation and informed them that equating the gay community to NAMBLA is comparable to equating all of Christianity to the Phelps family.

I\’ve not received a reply.

The website is unchanged.

The Cultivation of a Victim Image

Since losing the crown on the 19th, Prejean has been seeking every opportunity to discuss her story in the media and to craft an image as a Christian victim of vile homosexual activists.

The essential premise of this image is that Carrie was the front-runner and that her dream of being Miss USA was stolen from her when she bravely stood up for her faith. Prejean set up that premise in an interview with Matt Lauer on NBC Today,

Ms. PREJEAN: … You know what, Matt, I was on that stage that night and I was so excited to be there. I was competing for Miss USA, and I was called into the top 10 and to the top five. And I was standing there and, you know, I was ready for my question. And when I heard it from him, I knew at that moment after I had answered the question, I knew that I was not going to win because of my answer.

LAUER: Because you had spoken from your heart.

Ms. PREJEAN: Because I had spoken from my heart, from my beliefs and for my God.

Prejean further fed that perception in an interview with FOXNews Before “the question,” did you think you would win Miss USA?

Carrie Prejean: There was a lot of talk about me, people saying I was the frontrunner. During the whole two-week experience leading up to the pageant, I was very confident and relaxed. Not too nervous.

However, that premise does not appear to fit the facts. In viewing the final competition scores, it appears that Prejean was not the front-runner going into the question. In fact, unless Kristen Dalton, Miss North Carolina, flubbed badly and Prejean was brilliant there was no way that she could win.

As Brook Lee, a former Miss Universe who was at the event and spoke to the judges, put it, “for her to go in the press and say she lost the crown because of her answer is playing with the truth.”

She has also been pushing the story that the Miss California franchise tried to manipulate her into recanting her testimony.

Prejean said Sunday that her state sponsors urged her to apologize afterward but she rejected the advice and says officials from the Miss California USA pageant were worried that her comments would cost their contest financial backing and tried to prepare her for a string of post-pageant media interviews by discouraging her from discussing her religious beliefs.

“You need to apologize to the gay community. You need to not talk about your faith. This has everything to do with you representing California and saving the brand,'” Prejean recalled being told. “I was representing California. I was representing the majority of people in California.”

This accusation was soundly denounced by the Miss California pageant officials.

[P]ublic relations representative Roger Neal today called those claims lies. Neal says he was one of the people who attempted to advise the Prejean. According to him, Prejean was urged to reiterate she didn’t mean to offend anyone, and to use the national spotlight “to heal some wounds.”

Even Prejean\’s claim that her sister is “a gay rights activist” who “supports gay marriage” appears to be a fiction.

McPherson\’s Influence

But perhaps we should not be surprised that truth has played so small a part in the establishment of her martyr myth. She is being coached and guided by her religious mentor, Mile McPherson.

The Rock\’s site claimed that the Rock\’s Senior Pastor Miles McPherson “spent time with Prejean in the critical hours following the pageant”. This coaching was further confirmed when Rex Wockner asked if she\’d be willing to have coffee with Perez Hilton, the gay blogger who asked her the question in the pageant.

Carrie: Um, I’m not sure if I would have coffee with him. If I did, I’d bring Miles with me.

And McPherson\’s influence may be directing Prejean in a new and troubling direction.

If anything, Prejean has solidified her stance in the last week. McPherson, who preaches against homosexuality, has been acting as her adviser and encouraging her to use her newfound fame to persuade other evangelical Christians to share their views, even if they are unpopular.

“I learned that God has a bigger crown than any man can give you,” she said.

Prejean Joins the Anti-Gay Activists

I\’m not sure why conservative Christians would be so anxious to align their movement with a young woman whose sole claim to fame is to walk her fake breasts down a runway hoping that her appeal to vanity and lust will result in adoration and personal gain. But the political operatives of that movement often leave me shaking my head in wonder.

Nevertheless, they have welcomed Prejean with open arms, and she has leapt at the opportunity to turn her beauty queen status into the face of anti-gay activism.

Prejean has been lauded by some mainstream conservative leaders for standing for her beliefs. She was commended by the Alabama state legislature and today she made a special appearance at Liberty University\’s convocation.

But it is troubling that Prejean has decided to align herself with the most extremist and demonizing of professional anti-gay activists. Later today she will be join Mat Staver and Matt Barber in a radio interview, both of whom are known for their virulent homophobic positions.

And Prejean is willing to go further than give interviews. Yesterday Maggie Gallagher, the head of National Organization for Marriage (of Gathering Storm fame) had breakfast with Miss California. Maggie had plans for the meeting.

And I would like to nominate Miss California as the new face of the marriage movement. Much better than mine! “Truth and love will prevail over lies and hate.”

But beauty never hurt.

And, indeed, Gallager\’s nomination was accepted. The National Organization for Marriage has announced that a new NOM ad will feature Prejean. And a source close to the group says the campaign includes ads that “will focus on how standing up for marriage elicits attacks from the left and homosexual rights activists.”

My Predictions

The Miss California pageant almost certainly will remove Carrie Prejean\’s title and take her crown. They cannot afford to have Miss California headlining political ads that seek to criticize “the left and homosexual activists”. Indeed, the negative publicity she\’s already generated – along with demonizing the organization – probably has the administration thinking ahead for the best time to let her go.

Surely this ad seals the deal.

And Prejean will get another round of playing the martyr when that happens.

However, her expected attempt to exploit the removal of her title will likely not elicit the same sympathy. While folks can feel badly for a girl who just “spoke her opinion”, they aren’t as inclined to think that running anti-gay advertising is in line with her duties as Miss California. In fact, any attempt to play the victim may well turn against her those who currently see her as such.

Which is ironic, because Carrie Prejean truly is a victim. She\’s the pawn of those who want to use her 15 minutes of fame to advance their own anti-gay agenda.

The whirl of controversy – coupled with anti-gay activism – has killed any sponsorship or modeling career she may have been seeking. No one will want their product associated with a woman who is reviled by half the population.

And, unlike Matt Barber who lost his job for tying his employer\’s name to his anti-gay screeds, Prejean does not appear to have the qualifications required to become a full time paid anti-gay activist. She\’s not articulate and she isn\’t passionate.

At most, she can for a brief while show up at anti-gay functions as a token of ‘homosexual intolerance’.

In the long run, Carrie Prejean\’s decision to join anti-gay ranks is not to her benefit.

McPherson will go on with his church and Maggie Gallagher will go on with her activism. But when Carrie\’s usefulness has run out, she\’ll find herself without a title, a crown, a career, or the respect of her peers.

Emily K

April 29th, 2009

“I learned that God has a bigger crown than any man can give you,” she said.

This quote really struck me because this is exactly what Mithraists of the Ancient Pre-Christian World would say when they were professing their faith in their savior, Mithras, the sun god, upon reaching the spiritual level of “Miles” (the soldier.)

The image of the skinny blonde beauty queen versus a hardened, extremely discaplined male soldier who had endured harsh initiation rites saying the same thing makes me chuckle.

TJ McFisty

April 29th, 2009

Basically, you’re saying she’s the new “Joe the Plumber”. Unqualified, inarticulate, inadequacy…a perfect storm of dull.

Guess Sky Daddy was looking out for us when her hand was guided to pick Perez out of the fishbowl. I should start tithing or just sacrifice something when I get home.


April 29th, 2009

If only she had a role-model of some sort, you know, a previous beauty queen who was an anti-gay activist and gained lots of publicity. If all else fails she can always be a spokesqueen for orange juice or something.

David C.

April 29th, 2009

But when Carrie’s usefulness has run out, she’ll find herself without a title, a crown, a career, or the respect of her peers.

Now I, sadly (though I shed no tears) conclude it is a fate not perhaps wholly deserved but brought upon herself by her own uncritical thought and a measure of overweening ambition. Chalk it up to evolution at work, and yet another casualty of the Culture Wars.


April 29th, 2009

Ultimately, she does not have empathy for those who are different from her. She is old enough to have empathy for others, so she really doesn’t have much of an excuse. She lost the contest, and it appears that the marriage question wasn’t really all that important to the outcome. But now, as a sore runner-up, she is going out lashing at people who are different from her. The rights of an entire sub-population are less important than her “right” to have been crowned Miss USA.

She is so shallow, vapid and unempathetic towards others that she makes even Suzanne Sugarbaker of Designing Women look like a better role model of a beauty queen.


April 29th, 2009

Behold, the birth of the next generation Anita Bryant!

KC Now

April 29th, 2009

What, you don’t think 430 * 165 = 750,000? Surely that’s in the Bible somewhere.


April 29th, 2009

“In the long run, Carrie Prejean’s decision to join anti-gay ranks is not to her benefit.”

I’m not sure she’ll see it that way. Anyone who goes the path she has in the wake of the event in question may not have the goals we would expect. She may be perfectly happy being another Bryant, and getting knocked up by some brainless rich jock type and spewing out unfortunate child after unfortunate child.

It’s pretty much the American dream for the religious right, really.

adam kautz

April 29th, 2009

you forgot to mention that Keith Lewis could after being slandered by Miss Prejean that she fork over $40,000 for the breast enlargement and threaten to go to the lawyers to demand payment.


April 29th, 2009

I don’t know if she’ll be the next Anita Bryant… Bryant already had a career by the time she went on her anti-gay crusade, and she was also a hell of a lot more articulate than Carrie Prejean.

Prejean is just…Bimbo Bryant.


April 29th, 2009

I would love to see Carrie Prejean, the new face of the anti-gay marriage movement, debate an outspoken gay activist like author Jonathan Rauch.

Is there any way we can make that happen? I’d gladly donate, or pay for ringside seats.


April 29th, 2009

Oh, that would be fun, until afterward we have to listen to the anti-gays talk about how she was ganged up on and attacked for simply voicing her opinion.


April 30th, 2009

Somehow her story encapsulates all that is just plain dumb about the anti-marriage set.

a. mcewen

April 30th, 2009

Be ready for it – her fight will not be against the lgbt community but the Miss California pageant officials. I think NOM has stepped into another one.

Peter martin

April 30th, 2009

What was an intolerant, hateful heterophobe gay Perez Hilton doing as a judge in a Miss USA Pageant.

That is what every one is asking ?

Gay marriage is the most sexist institution beside daugther killing.

Miss USA pageant are doomed if the put homo judges. Oil does not mix with water


April 30th, 2009

ummm… what?


April 30th, 2009

GO CARRIE, fagotry is wrong in the eyes of God. gay marriage is an insult!

Ben in Oakland

April 30th, 2009

From the last few comments, it seems like a whole lotta ugly and a whole lotta stupid is coming at us.

you boys keep it up.


April 30th, 2009

Hot off the presses:

Only slightly less embarrassing than the “gathering storm” nonsense, but it definitely tries to capitalize on the victim game they’re trying to play.

El Rose

April 30th, 2009

Oh you can only hope that she goes away.
And the “fake breasts” comment didn’t go unnoticed. Who cares? What she says about marriage as the union of husband and wife is true and there is nothing you can do about it. Pass SSM in every state and you’ll still be wrong and your “marriages” illegitimate. Keep trying to convince yourselves that your behavior is deplorable. It won’t work.
You don’t like the message so you go after the messenger. They’ll by plenty of “Carrie Prejeans” when her turn is over. Truth always wins out.

Richard Peterson

April 30th, 2009

Wow, Fagotry, Dude are you married??? Are you Gay? If you are not then shut up. You have no clue what it is like to be discriminated against for being yourself. I deserve the same rights as anyone else. And as for the beauty queen, they should at least have to take a test before representing the state, although she is a great poster child for California’s failing education system. Arnold, and Obama we need help to fix our schools before we have more Carries open there mouths and spew ignorance. I do not care if she is against Gay marriage, she does not know how to articulate it. Sad, Sad, Sad.

Richard Peterson

April 30th, 2009

Poor Peter, who’s afraid of Perez Hilton


April 30th, 2009

Have you noticed that the more vociferously anti-gay a commenter is, the worse their spelling, grammar and punctuation are?

Seriously, it’s become a given.

Ken R

April 30th, 2009

Oh you can only hope that she goes away.
And the “fake breasts” comment didn’t go unnoticed. Who cares?

Has anyone noticed that the anti-gays have literally disregarded some sins in order to fight the “sin” of homosexuality? Lying and vanity, are all sins, however, I have noticed over time that when it comes down to anti-gays committing these sins, somehow these sins suddenly become of no importance? This just proves to us that in their eyes the “sin” of homosexuality is in fact the worst of all sins and their belief of all sin being on the same level is just lip service to the rest of us.

It is truly sad that they have dragged Christianity through the mud with their lies and deceit. Is it any wonder why so many have left the Body of Christ?


April 30th, 2009

Good for Carrie. At first, I was worried. After reading this post, I know truth and love will prevail in favor of equality. I wish Carrie well as she learns her lessons of the religious right.

David C.

April 30th, 2009

Have you noticed that the more vociferously anti-gay a commenter is, the worse their spelling, grammar and punctuation are?

Ignorance has consequences.


April 30th, 2009

Can someone on the religious side please explain why a good Christian girl is parading around provocatively while scantily dressed? And why she is expounding publicly on social/religious issues when Christian women are expressly forbidden to do so (Corinthians 14:34)? Why isn’t she married, and staying at home caring for the kids she should already have?

I’m quite serious: I would really like to hear from someone on the Christian right who is making her into a martyr about this.

Jason D

April 30th, 2009

Is it Ghandi who’s credited with

“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians, they are so unlike your Christ”


April 30th, 2009

Good for Carrie I hope she still stands up for what she believes as I know the gay community will stand up for what they believe. If gays have the right to marry each other, I want the right to be able to marry my mom, sister, brother dog, and lizard and have about 25 wives. Is that cool too? Screw it I also want my kids to be able to marry at age 9, I mean why not?


May 1st, 2009

I mean why not?

I wouldn’t act on those impulses, Richard. I would get professional therapy if I were you.

Jason D

May 1st, 2009

Richard, according to the DOMA, you can marry your mom, sister, your dog(if the dog is female), lizard(if the lizard is female) and all 25 wives (so long as you marry each seperately). No go on the brother though, unless one of you two can be classified as a “woman”.

DOMA only keeps gays from marrying, it does ZERO to stop incest, polygamy, beastiality, or pedophilia as marriage forms. So go right ahead.

Ben in Oakland

May 1st, 2009

Richard– silly silly silly.

but if you really want to marry your mom:

1) ask her. She may wonder about the boy-man she raised. I don’t know any gay person who would want to marry a parent. must be a strictly hetero thing, like child brides and polygamy.Oh wait, that’s right. Child brides and polygamy ARE a hetero thing.

2) get help.

3) I’m really so sorry to see that you devalue mariage so much that the minute i get married, (which I already did), you would want to marry your dog. It’s amazing to me that you have so little respect for the institution that you would want to marry your dog. no gay person I know would think that that is an appropriate thing to do.

4) get help.

5) Bestiality isn’t pretty, unless you’re a Georgia mule f**ker running on a secesionist platform. Google Neal horsely, or go here:

6. Also amazing to me is that the only thing that seems to be preventing you from marrying your Mom or your lizard (a dog I can almost get, but a lizard?–sick) is that I am prevented from marrying the man I have shared my life with for so many years. That’s all that’s stopping you?

7. Get help.

8. and finally… honey, try to come up with an original thought that actually makes sense. I’m sure that you’re absolutely hugging yourself with glee over your cleverness.

9. get help


May 1st, 2009

“I wish Carrie well as she learns her lessons of the religious right.”

Ravenbiker makes a good point; Carrie’s story might be worth following as an object lesson in the way the right treats its own. She will be used until her usefulness is gone (or the inevitable homoerotic photos surface), then she will be discarded. Her ignorance is not the only thing I pity her for. I guess the right is a little like the very Devil they imagine they’re fighting: you may think you’ve struck a mutually-advantageous deal with him, but in the end you are going to lose everything and he is going to have the last laugh.


May 1st, 2009

Hummmm…..Good Jason D. That is very interesting.

Ben in Oakland.

She may wonder about the boy-man she raised.
(how silly, most moms would be worried about you!)

It is very interesting to me that you feel people who do not agree with your opinion need help. (Yet the votes show your the minority) Lets say I actually believed I should marry my mom or animals (or whatever), I guess you would be better than me.

“devalue mariage”

I guess you think that your beliefs honor marriage, I don’t think your beliefs honor marriage, but hey i am the one with the problem… right? You should run for president.

And finally brother, I do get help… what scares me is people like you who think you are soooo right and have it all figured out.

“Bestiality isn’t pretty, unless you’re a Georgia mule f**ker running on a secesionist platform.”

I guess the sh*t you do is pretty…..

There are a lot of people in love with animals, maybe you should tell them they need help too. I’m pretty sure if they wanted rights that you didn’t agree with you would call them crazy too.

Your thoughts makes sense mine do not, how ironic.

Timothy Kincaid

May 1st, 2009


Perhaps you are misunderstanding the distinction.

When one is in a loving committed relationship with another adult and wish to enter into a legal marriage with that person, there are a few requirements:

First, that other person must be able to understand the nature of the marriage contract and give their consent. An animal is not able to comprehend or consent to a marriage contract. Nor is a child. For these reasons alone, no state would ever be willing to grant marriage between an adult and either a child or an animal.

Second, unlike historical marriage, our current concept of marriage is a melding of two legal equals into one unit. Men do not acquire their brides from their fathers (as was tradition) nor are dowries provided so as to “care for” the burden of a bride. Most of the trappings of financial acquisition and chattle have died off, at least in Western marriage.

But a child or an animal cannot enter into a marriage as an equal. They do not have power or standing. This is also an argument against multiple party marriages; they remove the balance of power.

Now many people may have “oooh, ick, I don’t like it” reasons for excluding others from marriage. They may not like that it’s different races or religions (both illegal in the past) and they may not like that one is much older than the other or they may not like that one is just a ‘trophy’ marriage or they may not like that the two parties are the same sex. But in this country we have a tradition of letting folks decide for themselves whom they wish to marry and allowing people to have self determination. Your “oooh, ick” may seem like a good reason to you, but it ought not be law.

Jason D

May 1st, 2009

Richard, part of the point is that you’re not making a rational argument, rather just recycling tired fear-based attacks on the gay community that have zero credibility.


May 1st, 2009

Timothy Kincaid & Jason D

Thanks for your thoughts although I still do not believe in gay marriage your opinions hold a magnitude of weight with me, you have both enlightened me a great deal on the subject.

My argument with most is this. Just like you are standing for something you believe in there are also people on the other side of the paradigm standing for what they strongly believe in. If you want people to respect what you believe in you have to respect what other people believe in. (Don’t become what you say you hate.)

I feel that some in the gay community (not all) like Perez are trying to intimidate us into agreeing with them. People on this site are bashing someone for “stating” what they believe! (So for those of us who agree with her that sounds an alarm in our head) Soon it could be me who is asked the question.

I would not expect someone who believes in same sex marriage to say they did not agree with the idea, so why do so many people expect for us to just agree with them. I rest my case I respect everyone’s opinion and beliefs and when we vote and laws are passed, I may not agree but I will still respect the rights and feeling of others.

Ben in Oakland

May 1st, 2009

Richard: I’ll be a little serious now, taking my cue from Timothy.

1) I don’t think you need help because you disagree with me. That is called projection. You’ve made a bunch of silly, irrational arguments which are at heart based on bigotry, not reality, fact, logic, and certainly not compassion and understanding. Those are adult positions. By equating gay relationships with having sex with your lizard or marrying your mother, you seek merely to devalue them.

2) I do value marriage very much, which is why I married my partner. Which is why I supported him through a recent cancer scare. Which is why we intend to be together for the rest of our lives. Unlike, let us say, Britney, who got married for a lark, and had more rights and respect for the 18 hours that she was married to Jason than my friends Lance and Peter or Andy and Paul. Both couples have been devotedly together for more than 40 years, longer than all of the multiple marriages of Limbaugh, Giuliani, and Ginrich, those staunch supporters of hetero-only marriage, put together. Who actually values marriage here?

3) We respect marriage, and we are monogamous. Unlike such staunch defenders of man-woman marriage like Gingrich, Bill Clinton, David Vitter, Larry Craig, john Edwards, Ted Haggard, Lonnie Latham, and a host of others that I get very tired of listing.

3) Though we don’t have children, I also value them very much. Unlike so many Heteros, who think nothing of popping them for no other reason than they CAN. My late partner’s nephew, thoroughly and unfortuantely heterosexual, has produced 3 of them so far by two different women, neither of which he was married to. And the state of Maine supports all three, because he doesn’t want to work. A certain community, so staunch in its determination to defend marriage, is yet so dysfunctional in terms of children having children my multiple men, none of whom the mothers are married to.

4) And actually, I’m pretty sure I do have it all figured out. For some reason that I just cannot fathom– well actually, I can on the surface, but the disconnect from reality is NOT something I understand at all– the very existence of gay people offends, scares and entices a number of straight people, and some who wish they were, but aren’t.

We have been subjected to a consistent prejudice for hundreds of years in many cultures for the crime of loving someone of our own sex, rather than the opposite sex. Not a child, lizard, or close relative, but another adult human being. And what does it all boil down to? I hate queers or my religion tells me to hate queers. It wasn’t always this way, nor has it been (nor is it now) in every culture, though concerted attempts have been and are made to eliminate it, and eliminate even the idea that it was ever acceptable, even a good thing.

People and cultures that are thoughtful, intelligent, compassionate, and reality based examine their beliefs and attitudes, and realize that maybe something they thought was true is not actually, and what they believed to be good actually harms others whose only actual offense is existing, and offending/scaring/enticing who don’t like it, or don’t like something in themselves.

Such people and such cultures realize that there is only one difference between gay people and straight people– we prefer members of our own gender for sex, love, and romance. Anything after that– you’re making it up.

Women and Negroes used to be property, and in some parts of the world, still are. Our Constitution defined black people as 3/5 of a human being– and property. How’s that for being “right”. There were Centuries, if not millennia, of cultural and religious belief, to support that. and yet, somehow, someone figured out it was wrong. And it has changed. just like for gay people. That’s why gay marriage is legal in Canada, South Africa, Spain, Belgium, Holland, Norway, Sweden, and legal recognition is available in France, Germany, Slovenia, Hungary, Czech republic, Ecuador, Uruguay, Colombia, Iceland, Israel, New Zealand. and our own country. You know, the civilized ones.

Who is virulently anti-gay? Most of Africa. All of the middle east except Israel. Russia. China. A good portion of the muslim world, at least officially. Our own south, which also has most of the worst rates of divorce, illegitimacy, and illiteracy. In other words, most of the hellholes and fascist regimes. Massachusetts, which recognizes our marriage, has the second lowest divorce rates, low rates of illegitimate children, and among the highest in education and standard of living. Are you starting to get a picture here?

My husband and I are both of us contributing, tax-paying, law-abiding, and productive members of the community. We live active, healthy, and positive lives. We are well thought of by family, friends, and colleagues, and live in peace with our neighbors. Despite all this, some people think that the fact that we are both men is the only thing of importance, and that this invalidates our love, our commitment, and especially, our claim to equality before the law.

Finally, about the s**t I do not being pretty. How would you know, and why are you thinking about it? I’m not asking for your approval, and I don’t care whether you give it to me. I do not parade my sex life in front of others. I do not invite people to watch. It is none of anybody’s business but ours. I’m sure watching Jesse Helms, Jerry Falwell, and Naggie Gallagher having a three-way isn’t pretty either. I prefer not to think about it.

But this is not about my sex life, but about my access to the equal protection before the law that my constitution promises me, and which my government, for the moment, would deny me for no other reason that someone whose business it isn’t doesn’t like it, or believes their god doesn’t like it.

I’ll give you a piece of advice. I suspect you are a fairly young man. Hopefully, you will some day find that intelligence, reason, fact, and compassion will serve you far better in your life than unreasoning bigotry.

As will examining your motives in going to a website devoted to ending anti-gay prejudice, and understanding why maintaining a bigoted attitude matters to you so much.

Ben in Oakland

May 1st, 2009

Richard– your preivous post appeared while i was writing mine. you’re more thoughtful than I gave you credit for.

Here’s one more thought for you. It is one thing to believe that marriage is only between a man and a woman. I disagree, I don’t think it is based on any kind of reality, but I can maintain a modicum of respect for those who do.

but to deserve respect, you must act respectably. It is quite another thing to advance ridiculous areguments that have no basis in reality, to tell lies, distortions, and half truths, to defame a whole group of people who have done you no harm, who want only what you claim for yourself, to ignore reality, facts, truth, logic, compassion,and law to advance your point of view.

Unfortunately, when you apply the standards of truth, fact, compassion, and logic to most people’s anti-gay positions, all they are left with in their arguments is that they don’t like gay people and think that we are not entitled to what they have because we are not like them.

Priya Lynn

May 1st, 2009

Richard said “If you want people to respect what you believe in you have to respect what other people believe in.”.

Richard, when you encounter a racist do you respect his belief that black people are inferior? When you encounter a neo-nazi do you respect his belief that jews are animals?

Jason D

May 1st, 2009

My argument with most is this. Just like you are standing for something you believe in there are also people on the other side of the paradigm standing for what they strongly believe in. If you want people to respect what you believe in you have to respect what other people believe in. (Don’t become what you say you hate.)

That would be true if all things were equal, but they’re not. It’s not that we’re saying “Vanilla is Best!” and they’re saying “Strawberry is Best!” We’re saying “Excuse us, we’d like strawberry just like all the other people at this party” and they’re saying “NO, you can’t have any. Nothing personal, but NO.” The opposition to gay marriage would make sense if we were proposing banning heterosexual marriage in the process. If we wanted to replace hetero marriage with gay marriage — that would make sense. But we’re not. We don’t want to touch straight people, or their marriages. We don’t want to take over the institution, just to be included in state and federal law.

I feel that some in the gay community (not all) like Perez are trying to intimidate us into agreeing with them. People on this site are bashing someone for “stating” what they believe! (So for those of us who agree with her that sounds an alarm in our head) Soon it could be me who is asked the question.

Read the comments Richard, she’s not being bashed for expressing an opinion, she’s being bashed for the content and lack of critical thinking involved in that expression. Not to mention the lies about her losing the crown, or her sister the gay rights activist, or….a lot of other things.

Perez Hilton aside, i don’t see how when we say we disagree we’re suddenly intimidating people. No one stopped or tried to stop Carrie from expressing her opinion, indeed, NOM spent a million dollars to remind us of that opinion. The voters in CA weren’t prevented from expressing their opinions both with signs in their yards and with votes at the ballot box. We keep hearing about all this intimidation and censorship, but every day I read more about how this person, or that person thinks gay are awful, shouldn’t be protected from hate crimes and shouldn’t get married — if we’re intimidating and censoring people, we are completely failing on both fronts! Tomorrow we’ll wake up and someone else will be talking about the big gay boogeyman, proving again, that we’re not intimidating and censoring anybody. Nor is that our goal.

As far as respect goes, if you go through this website you’ll see how often the anti-gay side of it, well, just plain, boldly, LIES about us, our families, or relationships, they seem to be obsessed with our sex lives. How are we to give respect when virtually none is given to us, our kids, our families, or lives themselves?

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