Box Turtle Bulletin

He’s kinda hot. I’d like to recruit him. ;)
To paraphrase the Bard, “the pastor doth protest too much, methinks”

Alex

This is truly sickening.

Ben

I’m with Christ McCoy, this guy’s photo is setting off my gaydar hardcore. I’m betting his (gay) sex is pretty filled with self-loathing, which could possibly make it pretty hot, till you realize he’s serious.

Who wants to bet how long before a gay scandal emerges? Possibly with a youth in his congregation.

Ben in Oakland

Two words.

Gay face.

Sorry, three.

Crazy it makes him.

Christopherâ„¢

Let me play armchair psychologist for a moment. Here’s my take on this guy.

1. He was molested when he was younger by some male adult in his family, and has harbored anger and bitterness against this person ever since. If this is true, he has clearly never received the kind of therapy and assistance needed to overcome such a personal violation. Instead, it comes out through his preaching, which is more of a cry for help than anything.

Or:

2. He’s same-sex attracted, and this partially explains his attraction to fundamentalism, which claims to have all the answers to every problem in life. Despite marrying young, having plenty of kids, founding a church and running soul-winning campaigns, he still feels he’s not doing enough to “kill” what’s deep inside him. (Hence, the “thorn in the flesh” sermon on his website.) So, he outwardly projects his anger and hatred of this part of himself through his sermons.

It’s either one or the other… or possibly both.

From what I’ve read on his family blog and in related news reports, he’s already been involved in two confrontations with authorities–one at a hospital, and the other at a border patrol checkpoint. Regardless of whether the authorities’ response in either case was excessive (and it may have been), he clearly did something to provoke the response in both incidents.

This man is a ticking time bomb of anger, and something bad is going to happen if he doesn’t seek compassionate, *professional* help to deal with whatever is eating away at him. Unfortunately, being an extreme fundamentalist (he’s a “KJV-only” literalist), he likely won’t seek help from anyone but unlicensed Christian “counselors” who believe the same exact way he does and can only enable him, not help him.

Yes, it’s easy to point at the fundie and yell, “Hater!” but there is a deeper reason for this that we need to recognize. I’ve seen this played out over and over and over with extreme fundamentalist types. It’s really tragic.

AJD

To those of you wishing we could “recruit” this guy, I wouldn’t wish so much as a kiss on the cheek from this POS upon my worst enemy.

Timothy Kincaid

I can tell you so many stories about people that I know being molested and recruited by the sodomites.

No. You can’t. Not one single story can you tell. Because same-sex attraction cannot be transmitted by sexual contact.

Richard Rush

Pastor Steven: “They recruit through rape. They recruit through molestation. They recruit through violation.”

Joe walks up to Bill in a gay bar and says, “Hi, my name’s Joe. Would you like to come home with me?” So they go to Joe’s place and Bill gladly stays for the night.

And voila, according to people like Pastor Steven, Bill has been recruited, violated, molested, and raped. The really sad part is that if Bill is a self-loathing homo, he may find it convenient to agree with Pastor Steven.

Jason D

AJD, I couldn’t agree more. What’s with gay men who think attractiveness outweighs more important factors — such as sanity?

No, you shouldn’t “recruit” him, do we NOT have enough crazy gay people???!?!!

Chris McCoy

AJD said:

To those of you wishing we could â€œrecruitâ€ this guy, I wouldnâ€™t wish so much as a kiss on the cheek from this POS upon my worst enemy.

You missed my sarcastic wink “;)”

Martin

Ah, Pastor Steven Anderson, who gave an entire sermon on the passage, “I will destroy him who pisseth against the wall.” Yes – an entire sermon on how REAL men pee standing up, with a side discussion on how German men all pee sitting down, demonstrating that German men are sissies.

AJD

Chris: The sarcasm wasn’t lost, but I just felt compelled to say that :)

Ben in Oakland

Christopher– you are quite right. that was my take on him.

But in some ways, he and we suffer the same problems. We’ve got a whole bunch of people always telling us how much they love us, and they want to save us from ourselves, sin, degradation, the whole pharmacopia. Therefore, they demonize, villify, lie because they truly know what’s best for us, and use every opportunity to deny us any semblance of peace and happiness.

And here is Pastor Steve with a fairly obvious backstory, and here we are, trying to save him from himself. The only difference is, we’re not engaged in an organized campaign to change him.

that, and the fact that we are right and they are not.

tavdy79

Iâ€™m with Christ McCoy, this guyâ€™s photo is setting off my gaydar hardcore. Iâ€™m betting his (gay) sex is pretty filled with self-loathing, which could possibly make it pretty hot, till you realize heâ€™s serious.

Actually, if he is gay and his self-loathing really is that strong, he could sooo easily get himself into a whole heap of trouble – that kind of emotion is very powerful, and could cloud his judgement the same way that alcohol does. But whereas in most jurisdictions sex with someone who’s drunk is statutory rape, sex with someone whose judgement is clouded by self-hatred is not.

If he’s on the down-low, he’s exactly the kind of person who’s most likely to end up face down in the gutter, or possibly raped and, because doing so would involve admitting to seeking gay sex, unable to report it to the police.

Penguinsaur

So how do you think the religious right is gonna defend this bigot ‘expressing his faith’ when one of his followers carries out God’s Death penalty on some sinner?

Burr

I’m so tired of this schtick. Can these mental and moral defectives come up with something original? No, they can’t. It’s beyond their faculties.

Anyway this is what happens when a bigot moron preacher pretends to know anything about biology. No, homosexuality doesn’t get “bred” out because it’s not just some random mutation that flips on a single switch.

Timothy (TRiG)

I had to disable internet filtering to see this post. It was labelled as “Occult”.

TRiG.

Regan DuCasse

Can’t think of any better analysis Christopher. We’ve seen enough Ted Haggard’s and so on to consider what you say more than likely.

I have to agree too, that this is a potentially dangerous man.

The irrational illogic of my fellow straight people has no limit.
Or is these kinder words for dumbass?

There’s always the straight mindset that sex with a heterosexual will change you, and/or a walk with Jesus.
How is it that same sex molestation is supposed to turn someone gay, but opposite sex molestation is supposed to do what?
Don’t these dumbasses know that ANY kind of sexual abuse is about POWER, not attraction? It’s about attacking the weak and vulnerable, NOT sexual orientation? Maybe the police, rape victim advocates and sex abuse counselors might school this wet brain what the deal is about abuse and ‘turning’ anyone into anything.

I might also mention that ANY celibate person, gay or not, won’t procreate either and will be gay or straight regardless of actually having sex.

I can only wish that his audience is a lot smarter and less fearful than he thinks they are.

sanderson1611

I believe this is Pastor Anderson’s youtube channel. You all should look it up. One of his videos is of him being tasered by border patrol agents. It’s kind of funny.

Bill S

I believe the pschological term for somebody like this guy is “wackadoodle”.

JJQR

Please don’t link to PamsHouseBlend. On that site, ANY Caucasian heterosexual male is immediately the bad guy. It might be true about LaBarbera, but still…

Priya Lynn

Nonsense JJQR.

AdrianT

This is hate speech – incitement to murder – pure and simple. The kind of speech that persuades some nutcase to go into a youth center in Tel Aviv and blast everyone to pieces, and also every bit as dangerous as what the NAZIs would say about the Jews in the early 1930s.

If this guy can get away with this under 1st Amendment Rights, then your constitution is a joke.

Pete H

I have to agree with AdrianT – where I come from, we have laws that prohibit vilification of homosexuals, and Anderson would find himself in a lot of trouble. One has to wonder about the wisdom of any law that permits someone who is so obviously deranged to slander a millions of people, with complete legal impunity.

Whatever the etiology of his problem, it’s clear that Anderson needs urgent psychiatric evaluation and treatment, against his will if necessary, to ensure his own safety, and the safety of everyone else. Left untreated, as he is currently, he’s a very unstable, dangerous man.

Richard W. Fitch

Pete – his condition is known as American ultra-conservative fundamentalist. There is no reliable cure. The best that can be done is to prevent its spread since some are highly vulnerable to the effects.

David C.

Yes, Christopherâ„¢, Steven L. Anderson is probably sick.

It’s kind of sad really. It’s not as though there weren’t enough allegedly sane people telling lies about gay people.

If we were to assume that your diagnosis were correct, it would suggest a very tangled and disturbed personality determined to expunge from itself a part of its core being. Mr. Anderson can never of course succeed in that.

Probably both he and his wife need therapy and I fear for their children.

Swampfox

Please donâ€™t link to PamsHouseBlend. On that site, ANY Caucasian heterosexual male is immediately the bad guy. It might be true about LaBarbera, but stillâ€¦” – JJQR

I agree about PamsHouseBlend. I used to visit that site and she lost me over a year ago.

mark

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-8/1210139/PastorBleachBlonde.jpg

I enjoy Pam’s House blend and I’m a white male queer.
faux Pastor stevie seems to have had a WHAM, George Michael’s fanship in his youth, here he is at 17yo.

me thinks, the lil twink with blonde highlights had/has I_S_S_U_E_S

buh hahahahaha!

Alex

Wow is that Zack Morris from “Saved by the Bell”? :-P

Jason D

“Please donâ€™t link to PamsHouseBlend. On that site, ANY Caucasian heterosexual male is immediately the bad guy. It might be true about LaBarbera, but stillâ€¦”

oversimplify much?

Steve

This guy claims to be a pastor yet has learned none of Christ’s teachings. Very very sad.

BobN

Another rising star of the GOP?

TMackenzie

This guy is headed for a fall – no one will need to help push him over. He’s the same crazy guy that the Right wing lauded for having his ‘rights violated’ by the border patrol (as another poster noted)- but it turns out that he deliberately set up the BP time and time again, trying to get him to stop him so that he could video them ‘violating’ his rights when he would refuse to exit the car or open his trunk.

Sad, actually. Sadder for his parishoners who are getting brainwashed by this highly disturbed individual.

jes\'fine

Where’s Ted Haggard when you need him? This boy is in serious need of a “man to man” talk.

Aaron Cohen

I love me some bronze aged mythology!

In the pastor’s defense, he can’t be faulted for misinterpreting anything — just ignoring the 26 other uses of “abomination” to describe things in Leviticus. Like eating shrimp or eagles. And wearing mixed cloth. Or planting different crops in the same row. All of these are crimes worthy of death, according to Old Testament YHWH.

And let’s not forget his very specific rules for how and when it’s acceptable to sell your daughter.

Or the “sun revolves around the Earth” part.

Flying Spag Monster

Rev. Gay Face thinks he knows me. He doesn’t know me. I was never molested. Nor have I ever molested anyone.

But he’s obviously a huge self-loathing homo.

MLite

http://www.faithfulwordbaptist.org/

It’s really worth checking out the church’s website. “Pastor” Anderson’s bio proudly states that he never went to college, nor apparently received any recognized divinity training…though he’s memorized half the Bible!

Of course, the Church only recognizes the original King James version of the bible, you know, the one written in English by the King of England who himself liked the boys.

Ms. Anderson’s blog is charming as well, and I haven’t seen so many adorable Aryan children since Triumph of the Will…

I don’t see what he’s saying that is incorrect. I don’t agree with it personally, in fact I find it reprehensible, but that is why I am not a Christian.

In other words, at least the people we deride as “fundamentalists” are honest about their beliefs. At least we know where they stand. The people we call “religious moderates” pretend like these things aren’t even in the bible, like they aren’t even printed on the page for everyone to see.

“I have more respect for a man who lets me know where he stands, even if he’s wrong, than the one who comes up like an angel and is nothing but a devil.” – Malcolm X

Priya Lynn

KT, you’re partially right, if you want to make the leap and say that the bible is “correct”. However it does not say anywhere in the bible that gays recruit through rape and molestation, so it is incorrect to say all his attitudes are “correct”.

Wayne Witherell

Biggest.Closet.Case.Ever

Timothy Kincaid

The people we call â€œreligious moderatesâ€ pretend like these things arenâ€™t even in the bible, like they arenâ€™t even printed on the page for everyone to see.

No. Religious moderates aren’t “pretending” anything.

They simply don’t believe that the Bible is intended to be treated as though every word is intended literally or that the Levitical Law is to be observed. They see truth in the Bible, they just don’t think it is either a science textbook or a history tome.

Richard W. Fitch

A book came to my attention recently which I am now giving a very careful reading. Written by an Orthodox Jew, James Kugal, who is also a distinguished professor of Old Testament Hebrew, “How to Read the Bible” sets out to attempt an intelligent dialogue between the methods of historical and textual criticism, and the testimony of the ancient interpreters. Even the first four chapters of the book of Genesis are irreconcilable when taken as literal, historical accounts. There is the constant need for discernment between Truth and ‘fact’. It took the RC church over three centuries to acknowledge that the facts of Galileo’s research are valid, but does this diminish or dismiss the Truth which sacred literature attempts to convey? Collectively the human race matures in similar fashion to an individual child. When we were young, most of us learned about Santa Claus. When we have matured, we realize that this is really a metaphor about giving and sharing. In much the same manner, the sacred books were a first attempt to describe the origin and nature of the known world. In the course of time, at least for non-literalists, these stories have come to affirm a meaningful/meaning-filled universe that is some how intrinsically empowered by ‘Good’. When science is seen to abolish faith, it is missing the mark of the role for both faith and science.

Priya Lynn

The bible calls for gays to be put to death in both the new and old testaments. The argument that this wasn’t intended literally is extremely weak.

Timothy Kincaid

Priya Lynn,

No. The new testament does not call for gays to be put to death.

As for whether you think scripture was intended to taken literally is, of course, your own opinion. But your opinion does not dictate the opinion of religious moderates.

Alex

Timothy is right, Priya Lynn: the New Testament does not call for gays to be put to death. But I agree with you regarding the Old Testament. I don’t understand how someone can read a verse like Leviticus 20:13 and claim that the biblical authors were speaking metaphorically.

Richard W. Fitch

Alex – the question is NOT whether or not the words of Lev. 18:22 & 20:13 are to be taken literally rather than figuratively/metaphorically, but what the context is of these injunctions. First of all, this is only found in Leviticus, not in Exodus or Deuteronomy. It is found in the context of the Holiness or Purity Code for the Jewish priesthood. Is it even intended to apply to the ordinary Hebrew? Secondly, in the surrounding passages, it seems to indicate how the worship of YHWH must differ from the worship of Molech and other ‘foreign’ gods. Rather than quote, let me cite two links which unpack these concepts.

Study Of Leviticus 18-20 “Abomination”
http://www.lionking.org/~kovu/bible/section05.html

Serious Study Of Leviticus: Has Nothing to do with today’s homosexuality
http://www.libchrist.com/other/homosexual/leviticus.html

Matt

I’m going with KT and Priya Lynn on the whole Christian thing.
I don’t debate what chapter, or verse or whatever its based on-Christians have been stoning, burning, drowning, raping, hanging, and generally just being A-holes to gay, lesbian, bi-sexual & trans-gender people for all of their 2009 year history. They always say its their Bible that justifies their behavior and I am not arguing with them over it. I take them at their word and avoid Christians, rabid dogs, milk past its expiration date, edges of cliffs and other dangerous/fool hardy endeavors.

Alex

Thanks for the resources, Richard. I suppose the bigger (rhetorical) question is why would a supposedly just and loving God ever, in any context, give us a list of circumstances in which it is acceptable to end another human being’s life, especially when the unfortunate victim has done absolutely no harm to the ones throwing the stones?

Dave Hughes

Since I live in the suburb next to Tempe, I was naturally curious as to where this church is located. A few minutes with Google maps’ streetview feature confirmed that – are you ready? – this is a storefront in a little shopping center. Take a look at the tenants: (sorry about the lost formatting)

All businesses at 2707 W Southern Ave, Tempe, AZ 85282
Categories: Baptist Church, Pawn Shop

Faithful Word Baptist Churchâ€Ž – more info
2707 W. Southern Ave, Tempe, AZâ€Ž – (480) 248-4082â€Ž – 0.1 mi SE
Unverified listing
Write a review

Maxit Pawn & Retailâ€Ž – more info
2707 W Southern Ave # 101, Tempe, AZâ€Ž – (602) 438-8468â€Ž – 0.1 mi SE
1 review – Write a review
“My husband is always on the look out for good deals on musical equipment so he …”

Ayala Insurance Service: East Valleyâ€Ž – more info
2707 W Southern Ave, Tempe, AZâ€Ž – (480) 736-2885â€Ž – 0.1 mi SE
Write a review

Discover Tel Communicationsâ€Ž – more info
2707 W Southern Ave # 104, Tempe, AZâ€Ž – (602) 470-4040â€Ž – 0.1 mi SE
Write a review

Ayala Mortgageâ€Ž – more info
2707 W Southern Ave, Tempe, AZâ€Ž – (602) 212-0188â€Ž – 0.1 mi SE
Write a review

That’s right – he shares a building with a pawn shop and 3 other little businesses.

Now it’s time for some audience participation fun! We can all write a review of this “business!” Just do a Google map search for 2707 W. Southern Ave, Tempe, AZ and you’ll get there.

David C.

I added a review on Google Maps.

Richard W. Fitch

Alex – You ask a legitimate question. It is from the perspective of a worldview formed in the Renaissance and Enlightenment as well as from the beliefs derived from the teachings of Jesus. When I studied Jewish Tradition and History in seminary, the professor was the rabbi of a local Conservative temple. I will always remember one of the statements he repeated as a focus of Jewish identity, especially for the ancient Hebrews but no less for the modern Jews. “One man is no man.” Our modern concepts of individualism are not consistent with the thoughts of the ancients. The basic unit was the tribe, not the person, not the nuclear family. Community and harmony were essential for their preservation. The commandment to “Honour thy father and thy mother” would in the more recent past have been “Obey the Crown”. In that time of patriarchal social structure, ‘father’ in this sense could be understood as the mayor of a town or governor of a region. It was imperative for the cohesiveness of society to follow the rule of the patriarch. The well-being of society was seen as contingent on also obeying the commands of their god. The individual who disrupted this cohesiveness was like a malign tumour that threatened the health of the whole social body. It was better to cut off the tumour than to allow the death of the whole body. /Does this sound like a familiar claim of today? LGBT persons are a cancer of society?/ God was seen as both just and loving, but his love was like the ‘tough love’ in modern parlance. The essential unit being the community, any part which ‘diseased’ the body must be removed. From that point-of-view, Yes, the person stoned was not a blameless victim, but rather a destoyer of the body corporate.

Jane Macoubrie

Wow. I was wandering in the wilderness looking for moderate political web sites, when I stumbled on this horrific pastor’s diatribe and followed it here. After reading the comments above, I am moved to encourage you thoughtful people (thank you!) to read “Who Wrote The Bible?” This book, written by a bible scholar, is his attempt to suss out who actually set pen to paper to create the old testament portion of the Bible. The answer he arrives at is interesting; repressive regimes have had a long history, in religion as in politics. Some of the bible scholar’s story and facts might be useful knowledge for some reading this thread, if you have not read this book already.

Richard W. Fitch

Jane – thanks for the tip. Checked out the info at Amazon and my local library sites. Sounds like a worthwhile read, added to my ever-growing booklist :-)

Priya Lynn

Timothy said “No. The new testament does not call for gays to be put to death.”

Alex said “Timothy is right, Priya Lynn: the New Testament does not call for gays to be put to death.”

You’re both wrong, and I’m surprised at you – I’m pretty sure you know better:

Romans 1:26-27

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Romans 1:32

Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Now given that you’ve denied the truth once already, at least spare us the tortured “logic” where you claim the words don’t mean what they say.

Timothy Kincaid

Priya Lynn

Cherry picking doesn’t prove your point. Read the whole passage.

Using your logic I could quote from your latest comment to say:

Priya Lynn
August 24th, 2009

Timothy is right

Alex

Alex says “It’s late and I’m too tired to argue about which of us is interpreting a 2,000-year-old document correctly.”

Richard W. Fitch

Priya – I don’t know your credentials, but there is no ‘tortured logic’ involved in asserting that you are wrong. In the context given, ‘death’ says separation from God. It does not say – “Take these sinners out and stone them to death.” Paul elsewhere makes the affirmation that the wages of sin is death. God will punish and banish them in the ‘day of judgment’. It’s always easy to cherry pick and proof text, but what Paul is describing here has to do with worshiping man-made idols and therefore being rejected by God to their own eternal demise. The first three chapters of Romans are a single discourse and must be understood as an integrated whole.

Priya Lynn

LOL, nice try Timothy and Richard.

Timothy Kincaid

Priya, you are entitled to believe whatever you like about religion. Seriously. I have no desire to change your devoutly held faith.

But please realize that when you cherry pick scriptures you aren’t impressing or convincing those of us who actually know what the Bible says, the context of the writing, and what Christianity believes.

Do us (and yourself) a favor. The next time you want to quote a few scriptures, go and read the entire chapter – or more if it is one theme or message. And see if your interpretation holds up to the context.

OK?

Priya Lynn

Timothy, faith is belief in something you have no evidence for. I don’t believe anything I have no evidence for, you have faith, I do not. I don’t care if you’re impressed or convinced, you want to believe what you want in spite of all evidence to the contrary, I don’t make my comments for you, I do it for the objective people you might mislead with false claims such as “the new testament does not call for gays to be put to death”

Spare me your “those of us who actually know what the bible says”. You’re pretending just as KT said. I’ve read your bible and no objective observer would believe your interpretation over the obvious one. You’ve decided in advance what you want to be true and you torture logic until you feel comfortable with it.

I don’t blame you, I wouldn’t want to have to defend that evil book either but you’re not convincing anyone who hasn’t already prejudged what they want to believe about the bible. Many Christians want desperately to believe the god depicted in their bible is a good guy despite its clear statements to the contrary. The rational thing to do would be to recognize that this book is clearly in no way associated with any just and loving god, it is entirely the product of the imaginations of bronze age bigots. That’s why it depicts a god you don’t want to accept as your own.

kevin

the same chapter in Leviticus that advocates for the death of homosexuals also proclaims death to those who eat shell fish.

I wonder if this homophobic, hate filled preacher should be executed for eating lobster and shrimp.

Jim Burroway

Pyra,

There are more than 20,000 Christian denominations, all because no two of them can agree on how to interpret the Bible. Your insistence that yours is the only way any “pobjective observer” can read the bible is exactly the same as you do is an arrogance that only the most aredent fundamentalists can muster.

Frankly, I’m tired fo every thread becoming another excuse for your tirades on how the only way to view Christianity or the Bible is exacly yours. Face it: you’re no more objective on that particular subject than anyone else, me included. Unless yuo’re willing to admit that, you have nothing further to contribute.

Hell, we cannot even agree on what the Constitution says, and its immeasurably shorter and more recent.

And please don’t confuse Timothy or other gay Christians with your enemies.

Priya Lynn

Its Priya Jim, not Pyra. Just as I suggested what an objective observer would see, Timothy talked about “what Christianity believes” without acknowledging the diversity of all 20,000 denominations so you might want to direct some criticism his way as well. As to whether or not any of those 20,000 denonminations are objective consider that 93% of the members of the national academy of sciences are atheists.

And I’ve never considered Timothy or other gay christians my enemy

James Martin

August 26th, 2009

Why did God create gays if “His children” are supposed to murder each other?

Doesn’t God have anything better to do?
I don’t think God is very smart.

Mark

August 26th, 2009

He’s projecting. He thinks gays are recruiting because that’s what these Christians do – recruit. A classic case of projection – psych 101.

PKinCanada

In Canada, neither religious communities nor society in general has collapsed as a result of same-sex equality. What exactly are these religious bigots afraid of again? How disheartening to see such hateful and vile words coming from those who profess Christ’s love. In Canada we have hate crime legislation intended to prevent or prosecute such nasty behaviour.

Alex

PKinCanada,

Quite simply, the religious bigots are afraid of being wrong.

wangmo

Iâ€™m not gay. I have always thought the â€œGod Hates Homosexualsâ€ biblical notion was just plain wrong, and because it was wrong it causes needless
hate and evil in this world.

I wish I could remember his name, but I was told years ago (70â€™s) by a scholarly Rabbi (who was a dear friend of a friend of mine who is now deceased), that the reason Yahweh decreed homosexuality forbidden was because at the time the decree announced to the tribe, the Levi priests had decided it was necessary to increase the population to cultivate needed warriors for the coming wars they planned for gaining territory and wealth. They wanted the “seed” to grow soldiers instead of be wasted on gay sex pleasures.

People may not know that when the Old Testament says “God said” it actually means one of the anointed Rabbis (Levite Priests) who has authority to eat the “sacrament” and in the resulting (likely Peyote) high, commune with “God” and “channel” from the “sacrament vision” what “He says” through his under-the-influence â€œProphet.â€ Old Testament prophets were Rabbis anointed by the priests as a designated taker of the â€œsacramentâ€ to report visions of what â€œGod Saidâ€.

The “Be fruitful and multiply” command served the same purpose as the “homosexuality is an abomination in God’s eyes” crap. It’s long been overdue that people read more of the original Bible–the Torah, and speak with scholarly Rabbis, and learn about how the scrolls were put together as a history of the tribes to serve the social/political/economical reasons for its existence.

If people bothered to actually get the facts, they would immediately stop acting out fear and scape-goating that targets gays, using and perpetuating false, out-dated beliefs that cause pain, harm, and death to homosexuals. GOD really had no other motivation for condemning homosexuality to the tribe other than to curb the behavior in an effort to redirect it to hopefully supply more births–potentially warriors for WAR.

The real Creator of the Universe had nothing to do with condemning homosexuality, but a tribe’s need for warriors for WARS did, so they had their “prophet” say “God Said…” The tribe needed more land, livestock, virgins, and treasure, after all. Spoils of War. And I’m pretty sure the old patriarchs weren’t so stupid as to condemn the gays in their military, since anyone with a few brain cells to rub together notices that all species have a percentage of homosexuals in their population, possibly 15%. The Old Tribal leaders would certainly not choose to loose 15% of their troops because they’re gay. They need the numbers .

The MOTIVATION FOR “God/Levite Priest/Rabbi” CONDEMNING HOMOSEXUALITY WAS BECAUSE THE TRIBE NEEDED MORE WARRIORS TO HAVE SUCCESSFUL WARS TO GAIN MORE TREASURE.

Homosexuality is a natural part of life throughout all species. I read somewhere that 15% of the population is gay. THEY WERE BORN THAT WAY.

This utter lunatic hate-filled repressed gay preacher, Steven I. Anderson from Tempe, AZ, who recommends “murdering” gay people should be removed from the pulpit and sent to a mental institution. He’s psychotic.

Timothy Kincaid

I read somewhere that 15% of the population is gay. THEY WERE BORN THAT WAY.

Current estimates by the CDC are that around 4% of the population is gay.

As to how ones orientation is developed, there is no certainty. Studies show that at least for some people genetics plays a part but homosexuality is not purely genetic. Other factors, either before or after birth, may have an influence on some. In fact, there may not be one sole road to orientation.

However, most gay people experience same-sex attraction a a very early age and have no voluntary contribution towards the development of their orientation. Additionally, there are no known methods by which one can eliminate same-sex attractions and replace them with opposite-sex attractions (as, ironically, the study of ex-gay groups has now shown).

While its possible that some development factors are post-natal, for all practical purposes they were “born that way”.

Priya Lynn

Current estimates by the CDC are that around 4% of the population is gay.

If I remember correctly I believe the same report by the CDC says that 9% of the population considers themselves to be something other than heterosexual, so the 4% figure is a little misleading.

Alex

http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail_ektid53742.asp

Hunter College conducted an HRC-funded survey last year which found that 2.9% of Americans are gay, lesbian, or bisexual.

Here is the complete study: http://www.nyu.edu/public.affairs/pdf/hunter_college_poll_report_complete.pdf

Priya Lynn

Alex, one thing we can say about all these polls is that they almost certainly underrepresent the percentage of gays. As a persecuted minority many, perhaps most LGBTs are unwilling to admit their sexuality to strangers and possibly have it used against them.

Priya Lynn

http://www.indegayforum.org/news/printer/31092.html

Further to that, A 2003 telephone survey of more than 4,000 men conducted by the New York City public health department published in the Annals of Internal Medicine found that MSM who deny being gay are more numerous than self-acknowledged gay or bisexual men.

According to Reuters, fully 10 percent of the men in the survey who identified themselves as “straight” said in the past year they had sex with one or more men but no woman.

Its pretty much a sure bet that if men who deny being gay are having same sex sex there are also a lot of men having same sex sex who deny doing so as well.

Priya Lynn

I should have clarified – MSM means men who have sex with men.

Timothy Kincaid

Priya Lynn,

The CDC report from 2005 showed the following break-out for men:

90.2% – Heterosexual
2.3% – Homosexual
1.8% – Bisexual
3.9% – Something else
1.8% – Did not report

While it is likely that some of the “something else” and the “did not report” are gay or bisexual, we cannot assume that most – or even any – of them are same-sex attracted. The most we can say is that 4.1% reported identifying as gay or bisexual.

However it certainly is logical that most surveys undercount the gay/bi population.

Alex,

It appears that Hunter uses Knowledge Network’s online panel as their basis. I’m not convinced that their panel is representative of the population as a whole.

Priya Lynn

Timothy, it also follows that we cannot assume some or most of the “something else” and “did not report” are not same sex attracted.

Given the NYC survery that demonstrates that 10% of those claiming to be straight are having gay sex and common sense knowledge that many people who are same sex attracted will not admit it to being gay to a survey under any circumstances (I think we all know gays who won’t admit to outsiders they are gay) it’d be foolish to believe that there is any survey that does not underrepresent the true percentage of gays.

Emily K