46 responses

  1. Priya Lynn
    February 3, 2010

    I don’t know whether to cry or be furious at how Shore is lying about the purpose of this bill. For him to claim this bill is about ensuring the human rights of gays in accordance with the needs of the country is just a stunning lie.

  2. Priya Lynn
    February 3, 2010

    Well, I sent Shores a brief email summarizing this bill’s attack on innocent gays and asking him to actually read the bill in the link Jim provided. I don’t know what else to do.

  3. anteros
    February 3, 2010

    “Teaching God’s unconditional love and grace”

    …wtf!?

  4. Timothy Kincaid
    February 3, 2010

    Finally, let me say that in this instance I am so proud of this nation for standing up for something they believe in regardless of the threats that have come from around the World and especially from the USA who has threatened to pull funding if this bill is passed.

    I cannot think of a single atrocity ever committed which could not be described in these terms. The most heinous of evils are always something someone believes in regardless of the opinions of horrified decent people.

    Mr. Shores may wish to recall that when a campaign of evil is presented and your response is to endorse that campaign, you are complicit in the act you are endorsing.

  5. AJD
    February 3, 2010

    It should come as no surprise, anteros. You see, the Talibangelicals honestly and sincerely believe that they “love” us, even though their actions and statements beyond that clearly indicate otherwise, because they have a definition of “love” that differs from that of most people. What they call “love,” most would call “arrogant disdain” or “concerned contempt.”

  6. Rick Brentlinger
    February 3, 2010

    “Our ministry serves this country sharing and teaching the “Unconditional Love and Grace of God””

    Ummm – that God’s love is unconditional is not a Biblical concept and is therefore not an evangelical concept.

    Talking about the unconditional love of God is a sound-bite tactic intended to make God palatable to post-Christian culture.

    God’s love for humankind today is always mediated through the Cross of Christ. On the Cross, Jesus shed His blood to pay for our sins and reconcile us to God.

    Now, if anyone wants the love of God, it is conditionally available by God’s grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, as our Lord and Savior.

    Unconditional means no conditions. According to the Bible, God has never offered His grace and forgiveness unconditionally. I’m just sayin…

  7. Richard Rush
    February 3, 2010

    Is there a unique alignment of the planets right now? There seems to be a noticeable increase this week in the howling from religious nutjobs. And it’s only Wednesday.

  8. Burr
    February 3, 2010

    Does he have any evidence that last bolded paragraph? Because that’s the first I’ve ever heard of those “rituals.”

  9. Bart
    February 3, 2010

    Why allow these literally insane religious people who wouldn’t know Jesus Christ if he decended from heaven and punched them in the face for using his name to promote their disgusting prejudices and phobias, to have any weight in your life? These people are cretins, bottom feeders that are so afflicted and retarded, their minds so addled and conflicted that they can barely make sense. Give them no power because only the ignorant and the weak allow them any influence (yes, I know, there are way too many people like that in the world.

  10. Alex
    February 3, 2010

    Burr,

    I’m not sure about Uganda, but I know that the Sambia tribe of New Guinea requires young boys to drink semen during rite-of-passage rituals. Leland Shores no doubt finds that utterly offensive and immoral, but I’m sure the Sambia would be just as appalled to learn that Shores pretends to drink human blood when he takes the Lord’s Supper!

  11. anteros
    February 3, 2010

    Andrew Wommack Ministries clearly doesnt care about Ugandans… they only care about fleecing profits from ignorant poor fundamentalist Ugandans’ pockets and getting a return on investment in Uganda.

    That’s why Ssempa’s _blatant_ lies are being echoed in this letter. Lies about the actual bill and it’s purpose. Lies about witchdoctors prescribing “sodomy” as a cure for hiv – that’s a South African phenomenon… in Uganda, witchdoctors have been known to sacrifice kids in rituals, but as far as I know there have been no credible reports in Uganda that support the lies in this letter… it’s all crap from Uganda’s biggest liar – Ssempa.

    This guy isnt dumb. He knows the horrific truth about the bill. He knows we are not dumb. He acts like he eventually had no choice but to drink the kool aid after being in Uganda 5 years and marrying a Ugandan (what’s that got to do with this bill or being able to understand the bill?). He deliberately insults our intelligence by refering to Ssempa’s response to Warren, spewing Ssempa’s lies and pathetic pitch of protecting Uganda’s (imperfect and incredibly diverse) culture as though that were reason enough for LGBT Ugandans to suffer under this bill. He does all this, in a cheap attempt to get us to back off and let LGBT Ugandans hang… just so that Andrew Wommack Ministries doesnt lose a cent from its Ugandan investments.

    What a shame.

  12. anteros
    February 4, 2010

    These are the people who could have made all the difference. Given their influence and popularity in Uganda… they could have helped silence crazy people like Ssempa, or at the very least reminded Ugandans why they shouldnt be judging LGBT Ugandans, turning sins into crimes, turning the dominant culture into law, fostering hate and intolerance. Rather than offer silent consent, they rally behind Ssempa to push this bill forward.

    It’s really disturbing that people who claim to teach god’s unconditional love and grace can shamelessly support Bahati’s bill… it’s not like those who oppose the bill have not given sound and clear reasons…but those supporting the bill continue to present obscure and untruthful reasons for their support.

    This is serious stuff being taken lightly. Reminds me of the peacekeepers’ excuse during the Rwanda genocide in 94… they said that as peacekeepers they were supposed to keep peace, so they couldnt keep peace in Rwanda during the genocide because there was no peace to keep. Serious stuff is about to go down in Uganda, and they know it. They could help save innocent lives, but that would probably interfere the power, influence and profits that they enjoy in Uganda.

    It’s not too late for them to change their mind. It’s not too late for Andrew Wommack himself to speak out against the bill, which I am sure he has read. It’s the right thing to do.

  13. SoLeftImRight
    February 4, 2010

    Miss Wommack looks a little lite in the loafers.

  14. Gerard Iga
    February 5, 2010

    I don’t know what is wrong with you?Acting like you are so loving and caring yet it is all a veneer for the selfishness.Why are you quiet when there are civil wars here(they are killing each other after all don.t you say?)Where were you when the genocide in Rwanda happened hypocrites,where?where are you when flawed elections take place or when individuals are tortured by government operatives if you care so much for human rights?
    I am Ugandan and we are not moral relativists.Your worldview does not fit our culture.Sorry.

  15. anteros
    February 5, 2010

    Gerard:

    It’s not true that the entire world has never raised concerns over any of the issues you mentioned. Detailed reports on various human rights abuses in Uganda have been issued over the years, and people in Uganda and across the world have raised their concerns in response to these reports.

    If anything, it’s attitudes like yours that encourage the world to turn a blind eye and let dictatorships impose undemocratic laws disguised as “African solutions to African problems”, such as this proposed legislation. Would you be happier if the whole world remained silent about this bill and all the other issues you mentioned? People are free to voice their concerns over the matters that upset them. Many people around the world continue to voice their concerns over Darfur, blood diamonds, famine, female genital mutilation, access to clean water, malaria, hiv/aids, rape as a weapon in wars… the list is endless. Would you rather nobody cared about African issues and remained silent when troubled by specific things that they feel are unacceptable and detrimental to the wellbeing of fellow human beings?

    Ugandan culture may be intolerant towards homosexuality, but culture and law are different things. This is what legislators in the civilized world realised decades ago when they began the global trend of decriminalizing homosexuality. Dont be mistaken, homophobia is a reality in every culture across the world, but that doesnt justify legislation that victimizes harmless LGBT minorities. In fact, it’s precisely because Ugandan culture is so intolerant towards homosexuality that anti-discrimination laws need to be passed to protect innocent LGBT Ugandans from persecution and harassment. Please learn to discern between democracy and majoritarianism.

  16. Amy Cox
    April 7, 2010

    I wonder how many of really know the motive behind Andrew Wommack’s ministries. If Leland has seen the things that he says that he has, then I believe that he would take the time to read the legislation. If indeed he has done so much good in Uganda, than he would know the influences that he has. Perhaps he will be able to impact the severity of the prejudice and bring some balance to the issue. Of course anyone with any benevolence does not want to spread HIV/AIDS, no one wants to see children and families suffer. I know that balance- not more hate is needed. Everyone NEEDS to look at the entire picture! These are all precious people.

  17. Bro. Bob
    September 28, 2010

    Who cares! This issue is a distraction. Spread the Gospel.

  18. Jim Burroway
    September 28, 2010

    Who cares! This issue is a distraction. Spread the Gospel.

    Seriously??? Lying about legislation to kill gay people and supporting it is a “distraction”?

    Is it any wonder so many gay people see Christians their mortal enemy with attitudes like this?

  19. the skygod’s burden
    December 14, 2010

    “These issues are so very different from the Globalized mold Western activists and the press are trying to suggest that Uganda squeeze into.”
    or that the {etc} are trying to suggest (synagogue in Riyadh) the mideast squeeze into? No doubt Wommack supports stoning of infidels.

    “Voiding all international treaties, agreements and human rights obligations which conflict with this bill”
    That looks improbably risky. but, Uganda has oil. Money talks.

  20. concerned african
    June 30, 2011

    such mannerisms like homosexuality werre never in africa.such is influence from the western world and poor africans are doing it for money/desperacy.indeed the world is soon coming to an end!!i wonder why the bill brought up in the first place because this is totally wrong.God punished sodom for that..please take no offence but promoting homosexuality is sounds like illuminati to me!

  21. Richard Rush
    June 30, 2011

    concerned african,

    Haven’t you ever noticed that the nations most accepting of their gay citizens are among the nations ranking highest in every measure of human achievement, prosperity, and general well-being? And haven’t you also noticed that the nations treating gays with vile contempt are among the nations ranking lowest in those measures? Even within the United States a similar correlation can be seen, to some degree, among the states.

    If the people of Africa want to improve their lives, they should start with a focus on education to reduce their ignorance, illiteracy, superstitious beliefs, and poverty, rather than scapegoating gays as a solution to their problems. History shows that scapegoating of unpopular minority groups has always been an effective way for people, governments, and religious leaders to deflect responsibility for their own failures.

    You need to wake up to the fact that many of Africa’s governmental and religious leaders are demagogues manipulating you to maximize their power and/or wealth.

  22. Thetruth
    June 29, 2012

    I know many of his “disciples… They are freaks! I know people who works at his offices and phone centers. They have NO LOVE for people or respect… It’s all fake!!! I know what I am talking about.I also lived with few of them.Be aware of them and be careful.

  23. bulian marshal
    January 22, 2013

    iam a ugandan living here….so u people who are just talking because you are on line are wrong.1.no one is killing gays 2.why the farce to be treated specially when there is nothing cool about it.
    well the system of how homosexuality is being introduced is the issue here, most of our children in schools are raped, a little boy of 6 was raped in the gents …and so on if people would just do this out of their free will do u think it wd turn out to be such a national issue? no but the way these acts were carried out are brutal drugging pples drinks then in the morning you wake to a hurting ass…so concerned african how is being gay leading to education? apart from confusing our children in school with fancy things if only they turn gay.so where u get Lelands response wrong is he wont go saying homosexuality is good because it isnot other wise only one type of people would have existed or would be able to reproduce that way..the so called educated world are the ones who taught us like poles repel so in conclusion, no one is killing homosexuals here on the contrary i see them partying freely so wat if they wont officially get married in our churches they can in yours..much as you have your beliefs so do we as a country respect that and stop exaggerating about them being harrases here.

  24. Priya Lynn
    January 22, 2013

    Bulian said “why the farce to be treated specially when there is nothing cool about it.’

    You see how messed up your mind is Bulian? You think asking to be treated like everyone else is asking to be “treated specially”. You have to be incredibly twisted to think like that.

    David Kato was killed because he dared to speak out against the abuse. We only heard about his murder because he was well known, gays who are murdered that aren’t so well known you never hear about. And your proposed legislation WOULD kill innoncent gays, so don’t give us this “No one is killing gays” B.S.

  25. bulian marshal
    January 23, 2013

    now Priya, that is wat was reported…that death had nothing to do with gayism it was a whole different issue come to uganda and do your research as i said donot believe everything posted on line,my mind is not twisted on asking as to why they want special treatment they existed here before and no one cared that is why i asked why now?
    it is true no one is killing them but the one who murdered him was gay as well i wont be shocked if they just sacrificed him so as to propel their cause it wont be the first time.
    besides the western world provoked the bill to come out with ur ultimatums

    • Timothy Kincaid
      January 23, 2013

      Bulien,

      It seems that here at Box Turtle Bulletin, we are more familiar with what goes on in your country than you are. Why is that, do you suppose?

      Could it be that we are not looking for excuses not to see what is plain as day?

      I suspect that you consider yourself a Christian. So I am going to challenge you with the commandments of Christ. There are only two: love God and love your neighbor as yourself. All the law and prophets are wrapped up in those two commandments. In fact if you read it in context you understand that you CANNOT love God if you don’t love your neighbor and treat him as you wish to be treated.

      But here you are angry that your gay neighbor does not want a law passed that would call for his death. (And don’t argue that point if you’ve not read that bill because I have).

      Do you want the government to pass a law to execute you? Of course not.

      And you would want people to rise up against an unjust law to kill you.

      So you have to make a choice: you can either love God or seek to oppress homosexuals. Because according to Jesus you cannot do both.

      Which is it? Do you choose to harm gay people or do you choose to treat them the way you want to be treated – EQUAL to you, not lesser – and in doing so love God?

  26. bulian marshal
    January 23, 2013

    yes the commandments are true and yes i love my neigbours, i love no matter what you believe in or who you are..the difference is i donot have to love wat they do. i donot personally agree with the bill it is harsh but i donot want to see an act i donot believe in legalised that is the difference. am sori if i offend anyone i am not God and wd not want to be i donot believe such a harsh bill will be passed but one thing i see here is it wont be legal it is hard for a country with traditional values to up en change en embrace some things others find easy to take in, Uganda is a conservative country and some things are just toooo “foreign for the people”
    imagine if one just imposes their culture say fgm…they will fight it is their culture and right but others will see it as brutal. in conclusion,gaysim legalised in Uganda is a long shot. we need order otherwise thieves, murderers, would all be openly fighting for their rights as well.homsexuality has always been here but not publicised and we want it to stay that way.

  27. KAKUYO JASON
    February 12, 2013

    I love all that God is using Andrew wommack for in Uganda lately.
    The too true to be good news is sinking greatly n I know it’s gonna consume the entire Uganda wholesomely….
    love u Andrew …….

  28. Priya Lynn
    February 12, 2013

    Right Kakuyo, nothing more wholesome than executing innocent people.

  29. bulian
    March 4, 2013

    the fact is God is using Andrew and Andrew didnot make the bill, and he advises every one to read the Bible he never brags that the word is from him and never told anyone to follow him he clearly says he is just the teacher of the word….get you bible and read it
    you have the knowledge in it besides every one is entitled to their own opinion if you really want to help Uganda enough with ur gay bill there are more pressing issues in our country than having strangers feel they know what we need more. like i keep saying it is becoz it was put as a condition to receive Aid from the western world countries that caused all this in the first place. we love the people but not the acts therefore dont expect people to just get on board with acts that are just……

  30. Priya Lynn
    March 4, 2013

    “we love the people but not the acts”.

    Riiiiigghhhtt. You love the people so much you’ll put them to death or imprison them to demonstrate your love. You have one demonic sense of love bulian.

  31. Dee Bee
    April 17, 2013

    I knew Leland in Dallas in the 80′s and early 90′s. When I knew him, Leland was happily gay, out loud and proud. Just learned of his sudden death last year. I am starting to question the”sudden pneumonia and organ shut down” death.

  32. JJ Wommack
    July 16, 2013

    if you are decieved – you will never know you are decieved… THAT BASTARD Andrew Wommack is the BIGGEST DECIEVER who is living in the world today!

    AMEN. to the author of this article “Andrew Wommack and His Ministries Want To Kill You”

  33. Rathan Paul
    August 10, 2013

    God’s Word, the Bible, labels homosexuality as an abomination. On the biological level, it is a deviation that goes against nature. Even at the atomic level, the building blocks of nature, there is a repulsion among ‘like charged’ partcles. The human race has always been open to perversions, and this is perversion which used to be limited to a deviant few, now becoming international policy. Get with it, listen to nature if listeningto God is a problem.-rathan paul

  34. Ben In Oakland
    August 10, 2013

    Honey, God’s word, the bible, labels eating SHRIMP as an abomination.

    YOU will find it very hard to listen to anything with your head stuck up your ass like that.

  35. Priya Lynn
    August 10, 2013

    Rathan, gaynesss is most certainly not a deviation that goes against nature. Gayness has been found in virtually every animal species in which scientists have looked for it.

    Rathan, listen to nature, gayness is natural and normal for a minority of the population.

  36. William
    August 10, 2013

    Rathan Paul, what a bizarre melange of mindless biblical fundamentalism and pseudo-scientific poppycock.

  37. Richard Rush
    August 10, 2013

    Rathan, how does anyone’s homosexuality affect you? Why are you such a busybody? Is your own life so empty that you can only find contentment when others are living as you believe they must? – (good luck with that). If you want to live under religious bondage and bizarre notions of nature, go for it, but beyond that, mind your own business.

  38. Timothy Kincaid
    August 10, 2013

    Richard,

    It isn’t so much that my homosexuality impacts Rathan Paul so much. Rather, it is the acceptance of my homosexuality by society that is a threat to him.

    Paul believes that when society rejects the teachings of his church, it undermines the social fabric and leaves people without a set of standards by which to weigh appropriate conduct. Abortion, homosexuality, sexualized youth, these all are social differences that veer from what Paul believes is the glue that keeps society together and functioning properly.

    Oddly enough, he’s on the right track. It is necessary for society to have a shared sense of acceptable and unacceptable behavior. Obviously we need to all agree that – for example – murder is wrong. And while that seems pretty obvious, there have been cultures in which murder of ones personal enemies was laudable and a sign of power (drug cartels and street gangs come to mind).

    And ironically, the principles espoused (but often ignored) by his church and many other religions and philosophies are excellent measures by which a society should live: be honest, help others in need, treat people the way that you want to be treated, value justice and fairness, value mercy and forgiveness.

    But in some perverted twist of doctrine, all of that is ignored – tossed out the window – despised by people like Rathan Paul. They don’t want principles, they are difficult. You have to apply them to situations, you have to think.

    They value, instead, rules, the rules that may have made sense and been an application of these principles in some other time. And they want the world to respect and follow the rules, even if they are in direct contradiction to the principles.

    It’s only going to get tougher for the Rathan Pauls and other rules-followers. Social, medical, and technical progress have changed the world to the point where the rules are cruel. And people with decency are increasingly rejecting the rules that Paul’s church, and others, have created. If the rate continues, by the end of this century they’ll cease to exist.

    And – though I think you may disagree with this – I think that is a sad thing. We do need social pressure to teach the principles and religion, when done correctly, can be an excellent tool for advancing the principles of justice, mercy, love, and treating others as we’d like to be treated (for example, the Lutheran church in Minnesota’s marriage battle).

    If churches find again a connection with their principles and toss out the arcane and archaic rules, they could be of great value. If they don’t, they will disappear. And I see nothing in their place to play that role.

  39. Priya Lynn
    August 10, 2013

    “And ironically, the principles espoused (but often ignored) by his church and many other religions and philosophies are excellent measures by which a society should live: be honest, help others in need, treat people the way that you want to be treated, value justice and fairness, value mercy and forgiveness.”.

    All religions contain teachings in direct contradiction to such principles. Although to a degree some religious offshoots have discarded such contradictory principles none of them have gotten rid of them all and set the moral standard of lack of harm as the guiding principle. And none of them ever will as obedience to a subjective god in order to get into heaven is the primary feature they will never discard.

    “If churches find again a connection with their principles and toss out the arcane and archaic rules, they could be of great value. If they don’t, they will disappear. And I see nothing in their place to play that role.”.

    They will never toss out all the arcane and archaic rules because they will never accept that the basis of morality is to harm no one and the primary goal of society must be to maximize the benefit and minimize the pain for all in an equal fashion. If they did that they’d cease to be churches and religion would die out – which it will.

    The law, government, schools, family, friends, employers, internet chat rooms and so on have and will take the place of churches in providing the pressure needed to teach morality.

  40. Ben in Oakland
    August 10, 2013

    Timothy, the argument you are making is an old one– morality, which is rules without specific principles, which is principles without SPECIFIC rules.

    I don’t think that we need worry about what will replace the alleged roles of churches and religion simply because religion in the real world, whatever it claims it may be, whatever sociologists and apologists claim it may be, is a bureaucracy that serves its own purposes.

    Religion can make people better, more moral, more ethical, but so can no religion. Religion also can make people worse, less moral, less ethical, but so can no religion.

    I myself see only a few principles to guide my life. Treat there’s well, because that’s how I wish to be treated. Tru my best not to hurt other people. Do no harm if I can avoid it, and make restitution if I do. It all really boiled down to one principle.

    Good is better than evil because its nicer.

  41. Papa Kofi
    August 26, 2013

    Killing homosexuals is wrong, neglecting them or being harsh to them physically, psychologically and emotionally is wrong. However, all Foreign influence to lure countries who are not in support of homosexuality is also WRONG…..Homosexuals need to be helped. If the law is to kill Homos or abuse them…that is bad BUT they should rather be helped. HOMOSEXUALS NEED HELP….LET’S HELP SAVE (HEAL) THEM FROM HOMOSEXUALITY….Don’t promote it…..it is wrong, it is a spiritual disease…DON’T KILL THEM OR ABUSE THEM….but HELP THEM. Don’t promote HOMOSEXUALITY as well. It is a sin.
    Jesus loves you if you are reading this…Whether you are a homo or not. He wants to save you.

  42. Priya Lynn
    August 26, 2013

    Kofi, gayness hurts no one and so is not a wrongdoing. It is immoral to oppress innocent gays so countries that do so are in the wrong and must be condemned.

  43. Ben In Oakland
    August 26, 2013

    Oh papa… whether you are a homo or not?

    Do you propose to perhaps put us into camps to “help” us?

    Do you think maybe you have the spiritual disease? Sure seems to so to me.

  44. Richard Rush
    August 27, 2013

    Papa,

    Killing Christians is wrong, neglecting them or being harsh to them physically, psychologically and emotionally is wrong. However, all Foreign influence to lure countries who are not in support of Christianity is also WRONG…..Christians need to be helped. If the law is to kill Christers or abuse them…that is bad BUT they should rather be helped. CHRISTIANS NEED HELP….LET’S HELP SAVE (HEAL) THEM FROM CHRISTIANITY….Don’t promote it…..it is wrong, it is a psychological disease…DON’T KILL THEM OR ABUSE THEM….but HELP THEM. Don’t promote CHRISTIANITY as well. It is sinister.
    Julie Christie loves you if you are reading this…Whether you are a Christer or not. She wants to save you.

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