21 responses

  1. Craig L. Adams
    July 7, 2012

    I suppose that Alan Chambers’ high Gagnon Score is due to the fact that he is perceived by Dr. Gagnon as a traitor. Timothy only achieved his high score by keeping the conversation going (and good for him!).

  2. Scott
    July 7, 2012

    So a Gagnon is a unit of measurement? Please tell me there wont be milligagnons or centigagnons. God forbid there might be megagagnons or gigagagnons.

  3. Reed Boyer
    July 8, 2012

    Gagnon? Must have missed him in the mix.

  4. Reed Boyer
    July 8, 2012

    Given Timothy Kincaid’s demonstrated track record of being able to wield the big spoon to stir up masses of . . . “discussion,” may we remove “the TK factor” from the Gagnon scoring process?
    TK tends to queer the results (or “skew” or “disproportionately weight” if another verb is desired).

  5. Alan Chambers
    July 8, 2012

    I’ll take the bronze.

  6. Lee
    July 8, 2012

    Dr. G. insists he has focused on the homosexuality issue because it is so profoundly dangerous to Christ-inane-ity. I DO think he’s a little too obsessed with boy-sex for a straight guy. Toss in the sin of pride over his sense of his grasp of the material, and you have Dr. G on toast.

    On a more personal level, with that beard of his I think he’d make quite the cuddly teddy bear. There: I’ve just said something nice about him so this couldn’t possibly be an ad hominem post.

  7. Ben in Oakland
    July 8, 2012

    Lee, gagnon is both completely correct and completely incorrect at the same time. It’s an occupational hazard forthe self-appointed magisterial of Christ.

    You see, he has made homosexuality his Armageddon, the last stand of all of the faithful who agree with him, becuase homosexuality is, after all, the subject that obsessed jesus and paul. If the church is wrong about homosexuality–and it couldn’t be more wrong if it entered the I am wrong sweepstakes and took the top three prizes– then people might question anything else the church has to say. He’s correct in that anybody with a brain ought to reject the church’s teaching on socalled moral issues in toto , not just the antigay part.

    However, he lacks understanding of how people think. The church has been dead wrong on many issues– witch burning and segregation come to mind– and it has had little, if any effect.

    People believe what they want to believe. That’s the operating principle here.

  8. Richard Rush
    July 8, 2012

    Ben said, “The church has been dead wrong on many issues . . .”

    I have a tough time thinking of any issues where the church has ever been right. And, like the classic broken clock that is right twice a day, on the rare occasions when the church has been right, it’s generally been for the wrong reasons.

  9. Wonk
    July 8, 2012

    I think you have to distinguish between single and cumulative page lengths. So Chambers leads in the single-sitting category though not yet in the cumulative standings.

  10. Ben In Oakland
    July 8, 2012

    Richard, there have been a few.

    Loving one another.

    Being kind and generous to others.

    Treating others as you would like to be treated.

    Minding your own business, not other peoples.

    And believe it or not, having a proper attitude of gratitude to the Universe.

  11. Timothy Kincaid
    July 8, 2012

    I can’t decide between the Grammy Response (praise God for winning for a song called F*ck That Skanky Ho) or the Sports Response (generically point upward to indicate that you think God loves you just a pinch more than the other team). I think maybe I’ll just smugly pretend to be modest. I am humbled by the company.

  12. Nathan F
    July 8, 2012

    Very interesting idea, but it seems counter-intuitive to me that a high Gagnon score is a good thing. Shouldn’t it be the other way around? As it stands, Gagnon himself would have the lowest possible Gagnon score. :)

  13. Smith
    July 9, 2012

    I think a more useful service to BTB readers would be to explain why Gagnon’s responses are so voluminous. I really don’t want to wade through his writings to find out. Are they larded up with Bible quotes? Does he make the same point multiple times? Does he go off on irrelevant tangents? That’s really the issue, not the number of pages. If he writes 50 pages of compelling, relevant argument, then he shouldn’t be criticized.

  14. Michael Bussee
    July 9, 2012

    Love Alan Chambers’ comment. Hey, we could make reading Gagnon an Olympic event…

  15. J Chervaux
    July 14, 2012

    Once and for all, let it be said that Gagnon is an inaccurate and poor student of Biblical homosexuality : he is far too opinionated and self-indulging for someone who would have us believe in his impeccable judgement (whence my jibe at his status as an ayatollah), has no grasp whasoever of the major ancient Near Eastern languages apart from Masoretic Hebrew, never consults scholarly literature in other tongues (German and French Bible studies simply do not exist for him), and he is ridiculously parochial in his selection of primary and secondary sources (they are principally American, and wherever possible come from the Evangelical right).

    Just consult any piece of his which appears on his website ; you will discover that he is all rhetoric and blistering, with virtually nothing in guise of scientific apparatus. I would have been loathe to expose him for what he is (see S. Ackerman, When Heroes Love. The Ambiguity of Eros in the Stories of Gilgamesh and David [2005], 16-17 ; J. E. Miller, ‘A Response to Robert Gagnon on “The Old Testament and Homosexuality”’, Zeitschrift für die Alttestamentliche Wissenschaft 119, 2007, 86-89) had he been decent enough not to charge his opponents with gross dishonesty. So let us not mince words any longer.

    Jean-Fabrice Nardelli

  16. J Chervaux
    July 14, 2012

    Time has come to conclude and leave aside the duty of impartiality which
    it was oftentimes found difficult to adhere to in the face of the detailed evidence forour a uthor’s [Gagnon's] crass academic and scientific dishonesty in the making of his book, but which nonetheless had to observed.

    The Bible and Homosexual Practice is a quite a slippery target to criticize, despite its documentary flaws and outrageous claims, for Gagnon never grants anything that does not square with his conservative methodology,
    thus putting those who disagree with him in an uncomfortable position. If they multiply rebuttals over minutiae, they are bound to produce, in the average reader,the feeling that but for these blunders, the book basically stands, which could not be more wrong-headed ; and if these critics fault the author for indulging in ideology driven
    special pleading at odds with the critical method in Bible studies that rightly dominates the more academically-minded studies of Scripture, all Gagnon will have to do is ignore this charge as stemming from a ‘liberal’ viewpoint.”

    There exists no middle ground between bowing down to Gagnon and stepping up as the sneering,scholarly onlooker who deems himself capable of proving that, eleven years after,at a times when America looks torn between twin extremes of acceptation and outright
    demonization, most provocatively advocated by Lady Gaga and Fred Phelps
    (of the Westboro Baptist Church), The Bible and Homosexual Practice is moot. As Queer scholars or ‘liberal’ exegetes, we have a duty towards students and the GBLT community who needs guidance rooted in sound interpretation of the Scripture, not
    to wallow in a pity party around such a detestable pile of junk.

    Jean-Fabrice Nardelli
    Universite de Provence

  17. Timothy Kincaid
    July 14, 2012

    J Chervaux, I think that you will enjoy a commentary that I will be posting tomorrow or Monday

  18. J Chervaux
    July 16, 2012

    Timothy,

    Thank you for the follow-up post. I eagerly await your commentary.

  19. pmview
    July 16, 2012

    Thank you for sharing your analysis. This man consistently failed to
    reach out or respond to multiple opportunities to actually discuss any
    of these issues man to man between Marin and Gagnon. His so-called educated response was never
    predicated on any real-time discussion on a face to face level. After we
    made many repeated efforts to open up any sort of dialogue, Gagnon consistently refused to leave his ivory tower. This is not the Jesus I believe in as the gospels indicate a very involved leader who walked with the people to bring them good news, abundant life and hope for a better way.

  20. J Chervaux
    July 17, 2012

    @PM View: Who are your talking to??

  21. pmview
    July 19, 2012

    The Marin Foundation reached out to Gagnon multiple times without success. It was very disappointing as we kept discovering his ‘analysis’ as published attacks. This ranking system highlighted for us the way in which Gagnon treated others.

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