Box Turtle Bulletin
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobby“Now you must raise your children up in a world where that union of man and box turtle is on the same legal footing as man and wife…”
News and commentary about the anti-gay lobbyAugust 22nd, 2012
The video you’ve been waiting for has been posted online
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Stefan
August 22nd, 2012
I will not even be watching this. Brian Brown is not even worth a second of my time as far as I’m concerned.
Rick Loesser
August 22nd, 2012
I agree with Stefan. I’d like to be open to dialogue with anyone, but I sincerely doubt Brian Brown’s ability to have a reasonable conversation about anything.
Priya Lynn
August 22nd, 2012
I on the other hand will be watching it at a later time. I expect Brian Brown will appear foolish/dishonest trying to defend the indefensible and I want to see if that is born out.
Scott Rose
August 22nd, 2012
Dan Savage did not push back hard enough against NOM’s Brian Brown on the Regnerus study. He did not specify adequately what it is that makes the “study” scientifically invalid. (A cherry picked control group compared to a test group loaded up with variables, just for starters). Then, the suspicion is that Witherspoon, NOM and Regnerus are in collusion on the study and its promotions in anti-gay-rights contexts. Brown says it does not matter that Witherspoon officials who got the study funded also are NOM officials. If it “doesn’t matter,” then why do these parties refuse to comply with document requests? Witherspoon, NOM and Regnerus right now today could comply with document requests related to the Regnerus study that have been made by multiple journalists, including The American Independent. Brian Brown only makes himself, Regnerus, NOM and Witherspoon look more suspicious, by refusing to comply with the document requests. After all, if the documentation exonerated these parties, wouldn’t that work in these parties’ favor? They are hiding the evidence, because the evidence contains things they want to remain hidden.
esurience
August 22nd, 2012
I don’t really want to watch it… can someone who did tell me if we appeared to win or lose?
Jarred
August 22nd, 2012
Esurience: I suspect anyone watching the debate (and I have) will take from it what they want. Savage hit hard and strong with facts and solid arguments, whereas Brown recited the same talking points anyone familiar with his career can probably recite by heart now. (I will note that even Oppenheimer made some comment to Brown something to the effect of “yes, I know the talking points” as Brown evaded one of the questions he directed to both Brown and Savage.)
I do feel that Savage could have pushed a couple more points a bit harder. For example, Savage pointed out where the FRC claimed that “homosexual activists” want to repeal all age of consent laws and turn pedophiles into “prophets,” which Brown then tried to characterize as “a difference opinion on homosexuality” rather than the demonizing lie it really is. Savage let that slide too soon, in my opinion.
In my opinion, it was clear which side had strong arguments and which side was trying to play the victim and engage in the usual tactics. However, Brown did the latter with his usual smoothness that I doubt those who were already inclined to believe him will see things differently.
As for those who might be somewhere in the middle, it’s hard to say what they’ll take away, given our current climate where people want to assume the best about (non-LGBT) people and their motives.
Michael K
August 22nd, 2012
Standing on his “moral” soapbox Bearing False Witness complaining that his hand is hurt from beating people over the head with his bible and crying “oppression” when he is called out on the actual harms of his deceptive rhetoric is absurd but Brian Brown does it everyday for a very fat paycheck. He has his talking points, revisionist views and his religion but nothing else.
Brian Brown is paid well to never acknowledge that we don’t tithe to or attend his cult or that he doesn’t have the “freedom of religion” to force us to adhere to the few tenets the “faithful” don’t ignore only because they will never apply to them personally.
As long as there are customers buying Snake Oil people like Brian Brown will sell it. Giving him a bigger platform for his favorite false narrative that anyone has a “religious right” to mentally, financially or physically abuse LGBT people is foolhardy and giving him another fundraising tool is just plain stupid.
gar
August 22nd, 2012
I don’t believe in having debates on my right as a human being to exist.
jerry
August 22nd, 2012
Ok, I watched it and again am totally bemused that a school of the caliber of Oxford would give Brown a degree rather than bounce him out and let him swim back to America.
When he and Savage were challenged to think of anything that would cause either to change their thinking, Savage came up with several possibilities that could appear in time, Brown simply contended that his beliefs would in time be confirmed.
The man has no ability to think but simply parrots religious dogma and is well paid to do so. And I know he’s well paid without seeing his paycheck. Washington DC is not a cheap place to live and doing so while supporting a stay at home wife and six(at last count) children is even more difficult to do.
Steven B
August 22nd, 2012
Savage articulated many good arguments. Brown repeated over and over NOM’s tired old talking points that he got from Maggie, about how if you believe in traditional marriage you are a bigot, and how marriage brings together the “two great halves of humanity” yada yada.
I wish someone, someday would frame the argument to be about the place of gay people in our society, rather than about the “two great halves of humanity.”
chiMaxx
August 22nd, 2012
I think you can see the panic flitting across Brown’s face right after e says, with regard to divorce “Just because you think something is wrong, that doesn’t mean you make it illegal.” Because even he understands that he has at that moment undermined his entire case against legal same-sex marriage.
I think it is also telling that, like all pro-gay blogs, BTB has opened this up to discussion, while NOM’s own site for the video at http://www.brownvsavage.com/ conspicuously lacks a comments section.
Michael C
August 22nd, 2012
Let me paraphrase Brian’s main argument… “By calling what gay people do ‘marriage’ you are not rendering unto me the superiority I deserve.”
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