Robert Gagnon Explains Why Consensual Gay Relationships Are Worse Than Bestiality and Incest
May 1st, 2013
Jeremy Hooper was forwarded a lengthy email chain sent to over seventy social conservative anti-gay activists in advance of the National Organization for Marriage’s Ruth Institute’s conference at the end of May. Among those receiving the email chain was Exodus International Alan Chambers, who tired of the anti-gay rhetoric and, after asking to be removed from the chain, finally added Hooper’s email address to it. In one email response, Robert Gagnon called Chambers to task for “secretly adding the name of someone whose whole objective is to promote sexually immoral behavior and abuse those who uphold what Jesus and Scripture regarded as sacred.” Gagnon also went on to justify his use of the word “perverse” to describe gay people:
The verb “to pervert” is from the Latin meaning “to turn thoroughly,” i.e. away from the truth or right course of action. Applied to sexual practice, a perversion is “any of various means of obtaining sexual gratification that are generally regarded as being unnatural or abnormal.” Paul in Scripture makes a point of singling out homosexual practice as sexual behavior that is manifestly contrary to nature in that it is clear that a man and a woman are sexual complements or counterparts, not males with males or females with females. He als refers to such behavior as self-”dishonoring” (Atimazo / atimia) and as “indecent/shameful behavior” (askhemosune). The Levitical prohibitions and some Deuteronomical texts add the description of to’evah, something abominable or abhorrent to God. The latter (along with Revelation) adds the epithet of of “dogs” to men who actively emasculate their appearance to attract male sex partners in a cultic context, treating themselves as “sacred” (hence the Hebrew name qedeshim). Bestiality is an even more unnatural form of sexual practice since it is cross-species. Adult-consensual incest is also a particularly perverse form of sexual practice since it involves sex with someone who is too much of a familial same. But Scripture treats homosexual practice as even more severely unnatural because the male-female requirement for sexual relations is foundational for all that follows (so Genisis and Jesus) and because sex or gender is a more constituent feature of sexual behavior than kinship.
It is my contention that homosexual practice is a more serious violation of Scripture’s sexual norms than even incest, adultery, plural marriage, and divorce. (The reader will note that I did not mention bestiality because the evidence from ancient Israel and early Judaism suggests that bestiality is a worse offense than same-sex intercourse.) [Emphasis in the original]
I guess in the six years since then Gagnon’s sorted out God’s mind on bestiality and, unsurprisingly, Gagnon’s God now agrees with Gagnon that gays are worse.
In addition to Gagnon’s close association with the NOM, he is also a founding board member of Restored Hope Network, comprised of a group of break-away ex-gay ministries which left Exodus International after Exodus president Alan Chambers acknowledged that “the majority of people that I have met, and I would say the majority meaning 99.9% of them, have not experienced a change in their orientation.” Chambers also repudiated the particular type of counseling intended to change sexual orientation known as Reparative Therapy, and he has declared that Exodus will no longer take sides in the political debates surrounding gay rights, including marriage rights.
Don’t be fooled by pretty talk, NOM opposes ANY rights for same-sex couples
April 30th, 2013
The National Organization for Marriage often pretends that they don’t oppose same-sex couple having some accomodations for their relationship, they just want to defend the definition of marriage. They lie.
As an illustration, today NOMBlog has a commentary about the ruling by the Texas Attorney General that cities and municipalities cannot offer any rights to same-sex couples.
In a six-page opinion, Abbott found that the constitution “prohibits political subdivisions from creating a legal status of domestic partnership and recognizing that status by offering public benefits based upon it.” He said city governments and school districts constitute political subdivisions.
That was a news report about Abbott’s position. But this is what NOM itself had to say:
Patrick is concerned that Texas law states “cities, counties and school districts cannot subvert the will of Texans” but that this is precisely what is happening in those municipalities and school districts which offer same-sex partner benefits.
The petty snideness is hard to miss. Don’t be fooled by the pretty words they use in the press; NOM has never met a lie that they thought was prohibited by the Bible.
Maine Supremes hear NOM’s argument about why they alone don’t have to follow campaign law
April 11th, 2013
The State of Maine requires that campaigns disclose their contributors. The National Organization for Marriage pretends not to think that they are required to follow that law by engaging in a two step contribution process.
The campaign for banning equality in Maine was a separate organization from NOM. But NOM was their primary (almost exclusive) funder. So contributions were made to NOM and then NOM gave money to the campaign and the campaign only disclosed that NOM was it’s funder, thus keeping the identity of the
Catholic Church original contributor secret.
NOM is arguing that they have no obligation to report the donors, as they were just regular ol’ contributions made for NOM’s general purpose, not targeted contributions to oppose equality in Maine. But the state isn’t buying it and the courts have ruled against NOM in every instance.
Their last ditch resistance is today, where they will make their losing argument one more time, this time to the Maine Supreme Judicial Court. I anticipate that the Supreme Court will not find their duplicity any more compelling than have the lower courts or the Federal Court.
Much credit for this situation goes to Fred Karger, who filed the complaints and has consistently pushed for NOM to be transparent.
NOM’s idiotic trumpeting of a mangled third hand report
March 27th, 2013
You have to love this declaration from NOM:
UKDailyMail: “Christian Opponents Easily Outnumbering Advocates for Gay Marriage”
It all started with Yahoo’s Chris Moody reporting an incident in the events of yesterday. He followed the NOM marchers’ progress:
When members of the crowd rose, they pressed on further down the street, where they were met by another small group of people that had stretched out a rainbow flag in front of them. When they refused to budge from the street, NOM organizers urged everyone to just go around them.
From which the Daily Mail, apparently not present and completely unaware of any other media coverage on the planet, extrapolated to mean:
Both sides of the debate were out in force, with Christian opponents easily outnumbering advocates for gay marriage.
And which led the integrity-deprived National Organization to pretend as though it were true. Personally, I’d be embarrassed to engage in such shameless behavior.
And I can’t help but wonder: if your pants are forever aflame, does that mean that you’re already in hell?
NOM Rallied Today
March 26th, 2013
After their march, the National Organization for Marriage – along with their various supporting organizations – rallied to protect marriage from being equally applied to all citizens.
The Red Caped Loons of the Catholic organization, Tradition, Values & Property, were present
The rally surrounded the bandbox.
And they certainly had plenty of space in which to congregate.
But it’s nice to see that not much grass was damaged.
NOM Marched today
March 26th, 2013
The National Organization for Marriage has been declaring that they were going to turn out busloads of people to march on the Supreme Court to protect traditional marriage (in the fine old tradition of keeping rights limited to the people who they think are better than you). And they have posted pictures on their NOMblog showing their glorious march.
For Example: (NOMblog)
But NOM’s pics tend to be close up and don’t give much of a sense of size. That’s not to say there aren’t any large group pics in their photostream, but those tend to be problematic; they have rainbow flags and “Equality Now” signs in them.
Fortunately, a BTB reader had a birds eye view of NOM’s march and has offered to share some pictures that give some perspective to their “busloads”. Here they start marching past:
There they go, banners unfurled.
And the middle of the pack.
And finally, the last of the saints go straggling by.
And after months of preparation and “busloads” of support, that was their march, pretty much in total.
No, it’s not exactly pathetic; thirty or forty people would be pathetic. At what looks to me to be a few thousand people, this was … well, let’s just say Brian Brown probably found it to be a bit of a disappointing turnout.
But I fully expect NOM to claim “hundreds of thousands”.
I don’t know how to argue with that.
March 22nd, 2013
As long as I’m all a-twitter, I might as well share this new gem from NOM’s Communications Director (whose posts I can read but am blocked from responding to):
if humans were divided into BLUE&RED, instead of MALE&FEMALE, marriage would =1Blue+1Red. Orientation doesnt matter, sexual difference does!
— Thomas Peters (@AmericanPapist) March 22, 2013
I don’t know how to argue with that. Literally. I don’t know how to argue with that.
Now if we could just get him in front of the Supreme Court.
The truth, but just half the truth, and nothing but half the truth.
March 22nd, 2013
The New York Times published a profile of NOM president Brian Brown today. The author interviewed quite a few gay bloggers about him, but little of that information appeared in the piece. It’s all very nice that she told hers reader we think Brown is dishonest, but why should they believe us? She’d have done her readers (and her story) a greater service if she’d pointed out some of his lies so they could sort reality from hearsay.
So, for the sake of a more complete account, here’s an email I sent her shortly after our interview. It’s a nice little gallery of horrors.
It was a pleasure talking to you today. If your focus is Prop 8, it turns out I do have something for you. NOM filed an amicus brief when Prop 8 went to appeal, and I take it apart here:
Also, here are the other links I mentioned:
NOM’s history of untruth
- http://wakingupnow.com/blog/noms-long-and-profitable-history-of-deceit (the list is halfway down the entry)
NOM’s history of violent and vilifying rhetoric
Speakers at NOM’s March for Marriage who have invoked Satan when it comes to gays
- NOM’s list of speakers: http://www.marriagemarch.org/speakers/
- Jim Garlow on Satan: ““So if I were Satan, if I were the Devil, I’d want to destroy the imagery of male and female coming together with light and joy, covenantal marriage on Earth.” http://www.glaad.org/cap/jim-garlow
- Harry Jackson on Satan: “…“a satanic plot to destroy our seed.” http://www.glaad.org/cap/harry-jackson
And just in general, this is a great resource for researching inflammatory rhetoric:
A couple of the more inflammatory NOM paid staffers:
On the Regnerus study:
Problems with the study:
NOM’s misrepresentation of the study:
- http://www.riformarriage.com/site/607/ (NOM doesn’t reference Regnerus by name, but refers to his study when they say “The following graphs have been based on information from the “New Family Structures Study” found here: http://www.riformarriage.com/site/431/ This study was published in the well respected social science journal “Social Science Research” on June 10 2012.”
Please feel free to call if you need anything else.
Thomas Peters Update
March 22nd, 2013
I’m trying to come up with some sort of pun using the term “facts evasion.” Because, you know, it sounds a bit like “tax evasion,” right? Right? No?
After posting my conversation with NOM’s Communications Director Thomas Peters yesterday, I alerted him to its existence:
— Rob Tisinai (@robtish) March 22, 2013
In response, he blocked me.
That’s probably the sensible move for him, on a number of levels. But it does nothing to change my judgment that Thomas’ primary strategy for dealing with inconvenient reality is simply to ignore it. Once again, it seems NOM is guilty of facts evasion.
No? Still no? Really?
I might need some help with that one.
I Spoke to NOM Today!
March 21st, 2013
The National Organization for Marriage has been spreading a host of falsehoods about research into same-sex parenting. Every so I often I lob a tweet about this to Thomas Peters, NOM’s Communications Director. He never replies, which is a shame, because I’ve always wanted to know what he’d say when confronted with these blatant…inaccuracies.
And now I know. [Spoiler alert: He doesn't say, "Oh, we're awful, and I'll fix it right away!']
It began this morning when reader/warrior StraightGrandmother directed me to Maggie Gallagher in the National Review:
There are at least four reviews or studies in peer-reviewed literature that contest the claim that children do equally well with same-sex parents. (Regnerus, Marks, Sirota, Allen). None of which are mentioned by the American Academy of Pediatricians in their endorsement of gay marriage. They cannot cite a single scientific study in a peer-reviewed journal showing children with gay parents are better off if their parents are considered legally married. None of this matters. How serious are we about children’s well-being in this country?
Then I found this new press release on NOM’s website:
One recent large-scale random sample study that has been produced by University of Texas researchers found that those raised in a same-sex household fared worse than those raised in intact heterosexual families on two-thirds of outcomes measured. Nowhere in the AAP statement do they address the confounding scientific evidence by Regnerus, Marks, Sirota and Allen — all published in peer-reviewed journals. The AAP simply ignores them.
I know a bit about Regnerus and Sirota. Their studies tell us nothing about same-sex parenting. I called the phone number on the press release and spoke to a very nice press rep. She told me I should talk to Thomas Peters and gave me the number to his office. And I was all, Goody!
Well, Thomas was reluctant from the start: I’m not a journalist, he doesn’t do impromptu interviews, and I should direct my questions to their press reps. I said a press rep had directed me to him. He hesitantly agreed to a conversation and asked whether I were recording it (no) and whether I were okay with him recording it (of course!).
I referred him to the press release quote above and asked if he were aware that the Sirota study did not look at same-sex parents. He slowly said no (I believe him) and asked what it did look at. I told him Sirota compared kids raised by straight dads with those raised by gay dads, but in both cases the dads were married to the mothers, so the study was really about opposite-sex parenting.
He told me he didn’t write the press release.
When I told him Regnerus hadn’t specified any results for kids raised by same-sex parents, he quickly agreed (that’s why I believed him about Sirota) and accurately characterized the study as looking at kids with a parent who’d had a same-sex relationship. I told him that NOM’s Rhode Island branch wasn’t describing it that way — they were falsely attributing these results to kids raised by lesbian couples.
At this point NOM’s Communications Officer told me if I had a problem with what NOM Rhode Island was saying I should talk to NOM Rhode Island.
(This was actually a screw-up on my part: I didn’t need to bring up NOM-RI. This falsehood was promulgated in the press release above!)
I pressed Thomas on the content of these studies and he fell back to affirming NOM’s broader point that the AAP had simply ignored other research when they issued their politically-motivated endorsement. That sent me back into the details of studies and he fell back to affirming NOM’s other broader point that there isn’t a lot of good research on the topic at all and I wondered whether that meant he was saying these studies supposedly against same-sex marriage weren’t good, either, and he said this was turning into more of a lecture than an interview, on which point he was probably correct, and he firmly and emphatically but not impolitely ended the call.
So now I know what Thomas Peters will do when confronted with NOM’s falsehoods: He’ll act like facts don’t matter.
He won’t dispute the facts. He won’t admit NOM has the facts wrong. He won’t take responsibility for how the facts are communicated. Instead he’ll evade. He’ll change the subject. He’ll strategically retreat to discussing NOM’s broader points in order to avoid getting mired in the tiny points. Like facts.
Now, remember, I didn’t record the call, so I’m recounting this from memory. And I’m editorializing (just a bit?). But that, of course, is why Thomas records this sort of call. And if Thomas would like to release the entire, unedited audio of the conversation, I hereby grant him permission.
Somebody please let me know if he does.
Cue the calliope – NOM reacts to Portman
March 15th, 2013
We’re quite accustomed to the National Organization for Marriage saying things that are, shall we say, creative in their approach to facts. To put it in religious terms, the like to walk by faith, not by sight.
But today’s response to Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio) announcing his support for equality is wacky to the point of clown car, looney toons, bad 70′s Disney annimation, complete wackadoodleness.
A spokesman for the National Organization for Marriage on Friday slammed Sen. Rob Portman, who has announced that he now supports same-sex marriage, reversing his long-held opposition to the issue.
“What Mr. Portman is doing is shrinking the size of the GOP tent,” charged Thomas Peters, a spokesman for the socially conservative NOM, in an interview with POLITICO. “I think it will have huge consequences if he chooses to run again.”
Sure, maybe there on Planet Completelynutso it would shrink the tent to include the majority of people who support equality. Maybe in Delusionville it’s a smart long term plan to side with the elderly and ignore everyone under 40.
But back here in reality, I’m beginning to think that Thomas Peters is in the market for a good tinfoil hat.
As NOM often tells us, married people live longer
March 14th, 2013
The National Organization for Marriage often touts the statistical advantages of marriage. For example, this is from their fact sheet, Why Marriage Matters:
Both men and women who marry live longer, healthier and happier lives. On virtually every measure of health and well-being, married people are better-off than otherwise similar singles, on average.
Which is, to my way of thinking, a good reason to support marriage equality. Unless, I suppose, you don’t want gay people to live longer, healthier, and happier lives.
But I think NOM would counter that these statistics of benefit only apply to heterosexual marriages. And it is the magical, mystical, godly coming together of penis and vagina that in some unknown way (similar to the power of wearing your lucky socks on game day) gives better lives. I get the sense that they really do think there’s something holy and mysterious about heterosexual married sex.
But they would be wrong. The Danes took a look. (LA Times)
Men in same-sex marriages are living longer, according to Danish researchers, but mortality rates among married lesbians have begun to rise after a long period of decline.
The study, published Tuesday in the International Journal of Epidemiology, used Denmark’s civil registry to follow 6.5 million adults from 1982 to 2011. The study is the first of its kind to examine mortality — the risk of death during a specific period of time — and relationship status for an entire nation.
(What do you bet NOM mentions this study… but only the part about married lesbians mortality beginning to increase.)
And it turns out that it isn’t penis in vagina, after all, that results in longer lives.
Researchers found that marriage in and of itself did not ensure low mortality during the period studied. For instance, opposite-sex married couples who lived apart faced a two-fold increase in their mortality rate.
Also, heterosexual men and women saw a steep jump in their mortality rate during the study period if they were married two or more times. The rate increased 27% for women with each successive marriage, and it increased 16% for men.
And so, with their usual logic, social conservatives will continue to insist that gay men and women leave their partners and live celibately. Or marry someone of the opposite sex – even though they know that this is likely to result in some poor soul’s unhappy divorce and remarriage (and increased mortality).
You’re killing me, NOM, you’re killing me!
NOM plans dramatic revelation of their irrelevancy
January 28th, 2013
The National Organization for Marriage has a nice long history of illustrating just how few people pay attention to them. There was their multi-state tour of mostly empty city plazas, their bus trip through California for Carly Fiorini in which literally no people showed up at some stops, and their efforts at collecting signatures from people who were willing to pledge to consider buying other brands than General Mills.
But NOM is nothing if not persistent. So now they are planning the grand, dramatic, colossal, ultimate illustration of just how inept, inadequate, and irrelevant they really are. NOM is going to march on Washington.
Not long ago, I sent you an email hinting that NOM was getting ready to launch some major initiatives. Well, after participating in the March for Life last Friday, I am excited to announce that NOM is putting together a March for Marriage!
It will take place in Washington DC on March 26th — the day the Supreme Court will be hearing oral arguments in the Proposition 8 case. You can go to www.MarriageMarch.org and sign up for information and alerts today!
I’ll be sending you more information in the days and weeks to come… but this is a pivotal moment in the marriage movement — an opportunity to show grassroots support from throughout the nation for marriage just as Proposition 8, the potential Roe v. Wade of marriage, is being considered!
Brian Brown is fresh back from France where hundreds of thousands of Catholics (a million he claims) converged on Paris to demand that marriage be limited to maman and papa. And no doubt he is dreaming that a million American Catholics (and a few Mormons, an Orthodox Jew, and some guy who can pass as Muslim – ya know, multi-faith) will gloriously march on our capital and tell our nation’s politicians and judges that the traditional definition of marriage must be protected from the assault by activist homosexuals.
I’m predicting 100. And I’m in a generous mood.
But I pledge: even though the mainstream media, the religious media, and the random people wandering by with a smart phone will all ignore Brian’s pathetic little effort, we here at Box Turtle Bulletin will give it all the attention it deserves. And if you happen to be in DC on March 26th, please feel free to snap a pic or two and send them our way.
A very very funny comment by NOM
December 21st, 2012
Over on NOMblog, the page where the National Organization for Marriage (but not yours) reports every moment the anti-gay industry has a tiny temporary advance and rants on with the same tired old objections to reality, they are apoplectic that Newt Gingrich stuck his finger in the air to see which way the wind was blowing and said, “hot damn, that’s a gale, I’d better get on the pro-gay marriage train and fast!”. But amid the shock and horror of Newt, Newt, abandoning them, was this gem:
By an overwhelming 60% margin (according to a national survey conducted by Gingrich’s own pollster, Kellyanne Conway), the American people continue to believe that marriage is the union of one man and one woman.
Ahem… perhaps Gingrich knows better than to believe Conway’s polling precisely because she’s his own pollster.
Chairman of the Board for Hypocrisy
December 13th, 2012
John Eastman is all of the following:
- Chairman of the Board for the National Organization for Marriage
- Current professor and former Dean at Chapman University School of Law
- A specialist in constitutional law and legal history
And…wait, there was one more. Oh, yeah:
- Another conservative happy to chuck his principles so he can be anti-gay
Eastman has a commentary about Prop 8 in USA Today: “Federal government can define marriage too.” I found it pointless and disjointed, but one paragraph leapt out at me, apparently in defense of DOMA:
And if states have the right to define marriage, doesn’t the federal government have that same right? It’s the constitutional duty of our elected officials to decide what burden taxpayers bear in dealing with same-sex couples. Federal laws encourage men and women to marry and have children because society has a profound interest in ensuring that children are born (to continue society) and then raised by their parents to become responsible adults.
That surprised me. Conservative legal scholars are usually federalists who believe in limiting the federal government’s power to what’s enumerated in the Constitution, leaving everything else to the people or to the states. It would be hypocritical, even bizarre, for a federalist to throw all that out the window with a simple, “And if states have the right to define marriage, doesn’t the federal government have that same right?” Because a federalist would answer that with a firm, “No.” Perhaps even a lifting of the chest, an intake of the breath, a scowl on the brow, and a stern, “Absolutely not!”
So I figured, John Eastman must not be a federalist.
[I]t became and remains one of the most fundamental tenets of our constitutional system of government that the sovereign people delegated to the national government only certain, enumerated powers, leaving the residuum of power to be exercised by the state governments or by the people themselves.
This division of sovereign powers between the two great levels of government was not simply a constitutional add-on, by way of the Tenth Amendment. Rather, it is inherent in the doctrine of enumerated powers embodied in the main body of the Constitution itself. Article I of the Constitution provides, for example, that “All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States.” And the specific enumeration of powers, found principally in Article I, section 8, was likewise limited.
Of course, when he wrote that he was trying to place limits on federal business regulation. But if that’s his principle, then surely he would apply it consistently. He wouldn’t abandon it just so the federal government could actively limit the rights of gay people. He’d never casually argue a non sequitur like, “And if states have the right to define marriage, doesn’t the federal government have that same right?”
But — ha! — I’m just kidding. John Eastman isn’t a principled conservative. He’s just a professional anti-gay at NOM.
December 7th, 2012
The National Organization for (heterosexual only) Marriage has issued a statement in response to the Supreme Court’s decision to grant certiorari on the Prop 8 and DOMA cases.
“We believe that it is significant that the Supreme Court has taken the Prop 8 case,” said John Eastman, NOM’s chairman and former Dean (and current professor) at Chapman University School of Law. “We believe it is a strong signal that the Court will reverse the lower courts and uphold Proposition 8. That is the right outcome based on the law and based on the principle that voters hold the ultimate power over basic policy judgments and their decisions are entitled to respect.”
Eastman quit the Dean position to run for Attorney General. He lost badly with only 34% of the primary vote.
He also opined about DOMA(3)
“We are pleased that the Supreme Court will review lower-court decisions that invalidate the judgment of the U.S. Congress to define marriage as one man and one woman,” Eastman said. “It’s not the job of federal judges to substitute their views for the policy judgments of the people’s duly elected representatives. We believe the U.S. Supreme Court will overturn this exercise in judicial activism and stop federal judges from legislating from the bench on the definition of marriage. We’re confident the Court will uphold DOMA.”
Which makes me wonder what Eastman thinks is the job of federal judges. It also makes me think that he is likely a phenomenally poor predictor of SCOTUS results. Or indisposed to truthfulness.
That Anti-Gay Double Standard
December 4th, 2012
The National Organization for Marriage is thrilled with a Nevada judge who ruled that banning same-sex marriage does not violate the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution. NOM’s chairman writes:
In stark contrast to the findings of a rogue judge in California who himself was engaged in a long-term homosexual relationship, the federal court in Nevada has quite properly found that true marriage serves an important public purpose and is entitled to protection.
I’ll pass over the hilarious notion that a judge who wasn’t overturned by the Ninth Circuit Apellate Court is somehow “rogue.” I’m more interested in that side comment:
…who himself was engaged in a long-term homosexual relationship…
You know what he’s implying. Judge Walker had a personal stake in Prop 8, which compromises his ruling. You can certainly dispute that, but for the sake of argument, let’s accept NOM’s principle and apply it to Robert Clive Jones, the Nevada judge whom NOM so deeply admires. What do we find?
- Robert Clive Jones is Mormon who is active in the church.
- Robert Clive Jones is married to a woman.
Personally, I have no problem with that. But NOM? Oh my gosh. If NOM is true to its principles then it ought to be in full repudiation mode against the man.
NOM, you see, holds that marriage equality is a threat to religious freedom. It’s probably their central argument these days. And Mormon religious leaders have said the same, and have done so more than once.
This means that as an active Mormon, Jones has a personal stake in the ruling — according to both NOM’s standards and those of his church. Obviously, then, NOM should issue an ad hominem fatwa against him, just as they did against Judge Walker.
No? Not enough?
Then how about this: NOM holds that same-sex marriage is a threat to “traditional” marriage, and Jones is “traditionally” married. In fact, you can find some of this sentiment in Jones’ own ruling:
Should [marriage] be expanded to include same-sex couples with the state’s imprimatur, it is conceivable that a meaningful percentage of heterosexual persons would cease to value the civil institution as highly as they previously had and hence enter into it less frequently…
“Conceivable”? I suppose it is, at least in the sense that anything you can describe in words is “conceivable,” in the sense that it’s conceivable North Korea actually has discovered a medieval unicorn lair, but still, we’re not basing our judicial rulings on the possibility.
This conceivable notion is so implausible I have to wonder why Jones considers it “meaningful.” Could it be that Jones is worried he’d value his own marriage less if marriage equality were made law? Once again, there’s a personal interest, a reason for NOM to reject his ruling.
This is all ludicrous, of course. And that’s the point. We let black judges rule on civil rights cases. We let women judges rule on birth control and abortion cases. We let devout judges rule on religious freedom cases. And we let gay judges rule on same-sex marriage cases.
But NOM screams STOP at that last example. Not that NOM has anything against gays. There’s no anti-gay double standard at work. Surely not — NOM is just standing by its principles. Principles they only want to enforce against, well, gays.
NOM’s fantasyland poll
November 9th, 2012
Cue the calliope, Kellyanne Conway is back with some more charmingly imaginative polling numbers. And just as a creative mind can almost believe that the beribboned wood-carved creations bobbing up and down are a real pack of wild horses, if you dream real hard and listen to the music, Conway’s polls can almost seem just like real ones.
But even at the Happiest Place on Earth, the music stops. And the wooden horse is just a wooden horse.
And, so too, when the giddy moment of make-believe ends, Kellyanne Conway’s “polls” remain nothing but tools for frauds and manipulators to try and convince themselves and others of things that simply are not true. And so it is to Conway’s ‘the polling company, inc.’ that the National Organization for Marriage has turned for consolation over Tuesday’s losses.
In some sad delusional effort to flash bright lights and play jingly music, NOM brings us this:
The National Organization for Marriage (NOM) today released the results of a nationwide survey of voters conducted on Election Day that shows 60% of Americans who voted in the election favor marriage being the union of one man and one woman. The survey, conducted by respected pollster Kellyanne Conway’s firm ‘the polling company, inc.’ is consistent with a national survey they conducted this past September showing 57% of Americans then believed marriage should only be the union of one man and one woman.
“The outcome of the marriage votes in four very liberal states has caused some to speculate as to whether the American people have changed their views on marriage. This scientific poll shows that the answer to that is, ‘no’ they have not changed,” said Brian Brown, NOM’s president. “This survey shows that 60% of voters believe marriage is one man and one woman, which is consistent with the 57% result ‘the polling company’ found in September.”
How was that poll conducted?
Conducted by the polling company, inc., the survey interviewed 800 randomly selected people who actually voted.
You may note that the familiar language about “statistically valid random sampling methodology” was not used. Instead they opted for that phrase most associated with convenience sampling. And cues one that their results have about the same reliability as one would find by “randomly selecting” people at your local mall. That is, not much.
And the question?
Do you (ROTATED) agree or disagree that “marriage is between one man and one woman”?
Well let me ask you, do YOU disagree that marriage is between one man and one woman? I don’t. I’ve been to several marriages that were between one man and one woman. I just also happen to believe that marriage is between one man and one man or one woman and one woman.
Which pretty much means that this means nothing. It’s a garbled response to a deliberately confusing question asked to people that were not selected to reflect the populace or the voters. But it’s presented as though it has meaning.
It’s kinda sad, really.
When your best bet is to present a fantasy, a whimsical ride on a merry-go-round, you pretty much have no reality to rely on. And you know it. When you resort to candyfloss polling, it’s because you know, you know with certainty, that any real poll would show you a world much more real than you can stand seeing.
And while this kind of nonsensical fairy-tale alternate reality may be appropriate for light lifters like Brian Brown, it’s embarrassing to see educated once-thoughtful people like Robert George or Maggie Gallagher associated with this level of story telling and myth mongering.
November 7th, 2012
Nope. Nothing historic to see here:
Brian Brown, president of the National Organization for Marriage (NOM), released the following statement today:
“Obviously we are very disappointed in losing four tough election battles by narrow margins. We knew long ago that we faced a difficult political landscape with the four marriage battles occurring in four of the deepest-blue states in America. As our opponents built a huge financial advantage, the odds became even steeper. We ran strong campaigns and nearly prevailed in a very difficult environment, significantly out-performing the GOP ticket in every state.
Despite the fact that NOM was able to contribute a record amount to the campaigns (over $5.5 million), we were still heavily outspent, by a margin of at least four-to-one. We were fighting the entirety of the political establishment in most of the states, including sitting governors in three of the states who campaigned heavily for gay marriage. Our opponents and some in the media will attempt to portray the election results as a changing point in how Americans view gay marriage, but that is not the case. Americans remain strongly in favor of marriage as the union of one man and one woman. The election results reflect the political and funding advantages our opponents enjoyed in these very liberal states.
Though we are disappointed over these losses, we remain faithful to our mission and committed to the cause of preserving marriage as God designed it. Marriage is a true and just cause, and we will never abandon the field of battle just because we experienced a setback. There is much work to do, and we begin that process now.”
Rubio Records Robocall for NOM
November 2nd, 2012
GOP Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL), who has been identified as a rising star in national politics, is making robocalls on behalf of the National Organization for Marriage to voters in Maine, Maryland and Washington state, where marriage equality is on the ballot (Minnesota, which is considering a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage, prohibits robocalls.) And in a sign that marriage is still seen as a wedge issue, those calls are also going out to the swing states of Wisconsin, Ohio and Pennsylvania.
Also making calls for NOM are former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee and Focus on the Family co-founder James Dobson.