Box Turtle Bulletin

Box Turtle BulletinNews, analysis and fact-checking of anti-gay rhetoric
“Now you must raise your children up in a world where that union of man and box turtle is on the same legal footing as man and wife…”
This article can be found at:
Latest Posts

Posts for January, 2014

NOM’s Brian Brown Joins International Anti-Gay Organization

Jim Burroway

January 15th, 2014

In 2012, the National Organization for Marriage watched in horror as voters in three states approved measures to grant marriage equality to same sex couples and defeated a constitutional amendment in Minnesota to write discrimination into that state’s charter. In 2013, the U.S. Supreme Court, in two separate actions, struck down Section 2 of the Defense of Marriage Act and opened the way for Californians to resume marrying again. That same year, six more states voted to legalize same sex marriage. More recently, federal judges in Utah and Oklahoma have struck down those states’ constitutional bans on marriage equality.

In other words, it’s been a bad eighteen months for anti-gay activists generally and NOM in particular. No wonder NOM, like many others, is shifting its attention overseas. Jeremy Hooper at GLAAD discovered that NOM president Brian Brown has joined the board of directors of CitizenGO. Writes Hooper:

CitizenGO, which is based in Madrid (where Brian recently delivered a speech), is essentially a petitioning platform focused on global issues.  In addition to considerable focus on marriage inequality, CitizenGO also promotes and/or directs campaigns in support of speakers who claim that “homosexual activists have played a integral role in the rise of Fascist politics, including Nazism,” against the World Health Organization’s supposed “promotion” of homosexuality, against Canadian pride parades, and much more.  As you can see, CitizenGO has its eyes fixed all over the world and on all of the planet’s LGBT people…

CitizenGO even hosts a petition in support of radical international figure Scott Livelyone that describes homosexuality as ”morally wrong and harmful to individuals and society.”  It’s clear what kind of world CitizenGo is trying to create.  It is now all attached to Brian Brown and to NOM.

But wait, there’s more.  It turns out that Brian is not just on the board of CitizenGO.  Instead, it appears that the organization Brian runs in tandem with NOM, the conservative rallying platform called ActRight, has absorbed CitizenGO as its own.  The CitizenGo logo now reads, “CitizenGo: Member of the ActRight Family”.

You won’t be surprised to learn that CitizenGO, along with the Rockford, Illinois-based World Congress of Families, Linda Harvey’s Mission America,  is a huge supporter of Russia’s law banning so-called “homosexual propaganda.”

Six Conservative American Organizations Sign On To Support Russia’s Anti-Gay Law

Jim Burroway

September 4th, 2013

Six American organizations have joined an international coalition in a statement supporting Russia’s so-called “anti-propaganda” law which prohibits persons and organizations from expressing their free speech rights for LGBT people. Of course, free speech rights against LGBT people are fully protected while anti-LGBT violence is officially ignored.

Six American conservative groups have signed on: the Catholic Family and Human Rights Institute, GrassTopsUSA, His Servants, Linda Harvey’s Mission America, Population Research Institute, and the World Congress of Families, which will hold its next Congress in Moscow in 2014. The statement repeats Russia’s propaganda that the legislation is only meant to “protect (the) innocence and moral formation of children“: (PDF: 68KB/4 pages):

The signing entities below are highly concerned about the heavy attacks that the Russian Federation is facing due to its recent Federal Law of June 29, 2013 No. 135-FZ “On Amendments to Article 5 of the Federal Law On Protection of Children from Information Harmful to their Health and Development …” that protects innocence and moral formation of children by prohibiting propaganda of “non-traditional sexual relationships” among them.

We affirm that the natural family created through the marriage of a man and a woman is the foundation of any human society and is entitled to protection by society and the State as stated in the international Human Rights norms, including Universal Declaration of Human Rights (Art. 16 (3)). Any harmful initiative for the natural family is destructive for the society as a whole. We also affirm that the children need special protection due to their innocence and immaturity.

We acknowledge that the Russian law protects the innocence of children and the basic rights of their parents recognized in the international legislation and treaties. With its new law Russia is protecting genuine and universally recognized human rights against artificial and fabricated “values” aggressively imposed in many modern societies. We also note that the concepts of “sexual orientation” and “gender identity” are not outlined in the existing binding international treaties and agreements.

We thus call for respect of the sovereignty of the Russian people and we invite all organizations and people who feel responsible for the protection of the innocence of children and their rights, the natural family and parental rights to stand up for Russia, as well as for Ukraine and Moldova suffering the same pressure due to similar laws.

HRC Promotes LaBarbera’s “Press Conference” at HRC HQ

Jim Burroway

June 5th, 2013

Peter LaBarbera, whose sparsely attended press conference yesterday in front of the Human Rights Campaign headquarters (“the world’s most powerful homosexual lobby organization,” he calls it) but hidden away behind a temporary construction wall, “was a success,” so sez The Peter. I guess HRC agrees. They posted video of the event so you don’t have to miss it.

Linda Harvey gets ABC coverage

Timothy Kincaid

September 14th, 2012

ABC News has dedicated an entire story to Linda Harvey and her “group” Mission:America. She’s made the big time. She may wish she hadn’t.

About the only thing that the crazies have going for them is that their audience is limited to those who agree with them anyway (and those of us who mock them). But when presented by a reporter who is neither an extremist nor a gay activist, their crazy rantings seem, well, crazy.

In her new guide on how to talk to kids about homosexuality, Harvey writes, “It’s not right to tell someone that being homosexual is okay. The person may be feeling sad because of being bullied, but never try to make him or [sic] feel better by saying “gay” is okay.”

Well who would do that anyway. They proper response to someone “feeling sad” because of being bullied is to scream, “You’re going to burn in hell, you filthy sinner!” Right?

And besides everyone knows, “from Asia to India”, that “being gay is wrong”.

Oh, Linda. Lovely, lovely Linda. You really have no idea just how hateful (and stupid) you come across to anyone who doesn’t live in your bubble, do you?

Pro-Gay Lobbyist Named Ohio GOP Director

Jim Burroway

May 23rd, 2012

Sometimes you learn the coolest things on Twitter. The Ohio Republican Party has named Matt Borges their new executive director. Borges had served as the executive director for Gov. John Kasich’s inauguration committee. In 2004, he was convicted of a misdemeanor for soliciting illicit campaign contributions and questions surfaced again over his fundraising for Kasich’s inauguration, which means that his GOP creds are totally solid. He’s also a registered lobbyist at the statehouse. His many clients include Equality Ohio, for whom he is trying to shepherd a non-discrimination bill through a House committee. Borges, being a lobbyist, is simply a hired gun. I have no idea whether he is gay or even pro-gay. Nevertheless, Columbus resident Linda Harvey is “outraged,” and Ohio’s tea party factions aren’t too thrilled either:

“It’s why we’re so detached from regular operations of the Republican party,” said Tom Zawistowski, president of the Ohio Liberty Coalition of tea party groups. “We have some shared goals and work on some of those shared goals, but we certainly don’t have shared values.”

Tilting at homosexual agendas

Timothy Kincaid

April 4th, 2012

At this point they came in sight of thirty forty windmills that there are on plain, and as soon as Don Quixote saw them he said to his squire, “Fortune is arranging matters for us better than we could have shaped our desires ourselves, for look there, friend Sancho Panza, where thirty or more monstrous giants present themselves, all of whom I mean to engage in battle and slay, and with whose spoils we shall begin to make our fortunes; for this is righteous warfare, and it is God’s good service to sweep so evil a breed from off the face of the earth.”

“What giants?” said Sancho Panza.

“Those thou seest there,” answered his master, “with the long arms, and some have them nearly two leagues long.”

“Look, your worship,” said Sancho; “what we see there are not giants but windmills, and what seem to be their arms are the sails that turned by the wind make the millstone go.”

“It is easy to see,” replied Don Quixote, “that thou art not used to this business of adventures; those are giants; and if thou art afraid, away with thee out of this and betake thyself to prayer while I engage them in fierce and unequal combat.”

The Ingenious Gentleman Don Quixote of La Mancha, Miguel de Cervantes, 1605

Quixote’s impetus was the revival of a better age, a desire to resurrect chivalry and bring about decency and goodness. It was this aspiration that addled his thinking and blinded him, leaving him a fool that left chaos and harm in his wake.

But reclaiming the time past is a motivation that pales to that of fearing the time to come.

Fear is a awesome thing. It can impel feats of heroism to crush a threat or leave one frozen and whimpering. But it’s greatest power is in its ability to project itself atop reality and actualize what is at heart only a threatening possibility. If unchecked, a fear of rejection can block out any voices of acceptance, amidst the fear of failure even the greatest of accomplishments can’t be appreciated due to imperfections real or imagined.

Add hatred to the mix and you have a monstrous self-perpetuating recipe for delusion: inventing and actualizing all that you dread as the intentions and achievements of those whom you see as your enemy.

And SPLC Hate Group Mission America’s president, Linda Harvey, illustrates this beautifully in her latest article, 10 reasons to walk out on ‘Day of Silence’. There is little question that hatred is an emotion that drives Harvey and feeds her emotions. But it also provides an easy target for her fear.

Linda worries about a world in which what she holds dear is no longer valued or respected. She fears that her children, or theirs, may no longer find the structure of family (as Linda knows it), community, church, and society to be worth working for and that civilization will dissolve into chaos and cruelty. And Linda is downright scared about what it means that her deity who is all powerful and about whom she is absolutely certain suddenly seems either incapable or unwilling to unleash his power and illustrate that Linda is right, leaving her to make claims on his behalf without knowing whether he will back them up for her.

And so, needing some source for all this catastrophe, Linda turns to hate which provide The Homosexual Agenda. And in Linda’s fevered quaking brain, The Homosexuals Agenda is defined to be whatever she fears. Any relationship to reality is inconsequential and any who suggest that she may be seeing windmills instead of giants are clearly ignorant about what homosexuals are really like, or afraid to go up against their powerful lobby.

We can learn a lot about what Linda fears from what she attributes to our community. For example, Linda fears that her views may not hold up well if they are inspected for kindness and consideration. She knows that the founder of her faith demands that she love her neighbor and she is terrified at taking an honest assessment of her character and lashes out against anything that might encourage her to do so.

7. There are legitimate lessons students should learn about prejudice and bias. But Day of Silence promoters deceptively link moral objections about homosexuality to racial discrimination or anti-Semitism in an attempt to legitimize the pro-homosexual agenda and portray homosexuals as perennial victims, while disguising the harmfulness and risk.

She is frightened that society has not only rejected her values as damaging – not just about homosexuality, but on a wide range of issues – but now is starting to question the motives and intent of those who espouse them. If the community sees her as lacking credibility or authority, then her ability to pass her values on to the next generation is much more difficult.

4. The Day of Silence encourages students to nurture prejudiced, hostile and bigoted attitudes against Christians and others with traditional moral beliefs, and to spread inaccurate and harmful information.

And she is scared that this diminishing respect will reach the place where she – and those who share her views – are seen not only as lacking authority but as an immoral and detrimental influence to perhaps be tolerated but to be watched and warned about. She fears that her views may put her in the same camp as neo-nazis, the Phelps Family, and the KKK.

And if this happens, she will have no ability to preach and evangelize her faith. If her faith is seen as a force for evil, then all of the work for the past 2,000 years has been undone.

10. The DOS message inhibits Christians from witnessing to their peers caught up in homosexuality or gender confusion. There is salvation through Jesus Christ and the hope of leaving this sin behind. Calling homosexuality a sin on the Day of Silence would be considered “hateful,” when it is actually God-honoring and respectful to the hearer.

I pity Linda. Her fears are going to come to pass. No, society will not crumble, values and morality will not be toss in the trash heap, and Christianity will not come to an end (though it’s going to go through a painful reevaluation). But the actual things she lists above are going to happen and Linda is going to be very very unhappy.

Before the end of her life, those who bitterly rail against The Homosexual Agenda are going to be mocked and reviled and preached against in pulpits across the nation by many of the same people who listen to her today and fear what she fears. Society will call her “bigot”, people will use her as an example for their children of what not to be, and her treasured Christianity – even many of those who are very conservative – will eventually find anti-gay animus untenable and abandon it, and Linda.

But she does provide a service – because by knowing what Linda fears, we can approach those who share her worry with words of comfort and assurance. We can let them know that we will not silence them, that we value family and don’t want to destroy it, that we don’t wish to silence or punish those whose theology does not support us, that we are good citizens, and that as they get to know us they’ll see that we are not a threat.

And many – those who are not motivated by hate – will happily find assurance and comfort. And though some may never fully include us, they will find peaceful coexistence to be painless.

It may be annoying to repeat for the umteen millionth time that we support free speech or that we aren’t trying to make any churches conduct any sacraments that they don’t want to do. Say it anyway. Because fear can block our voices and amplify hers and it will take patience to break through.

And it may be tempting to write those who fear off as “hateful bigots” and not make the effort. Make it anyway. Allaying fears is the decent thing to do – even to those who are lashing out in confusion and hurting us in the process.

Yes a few really are, like Linda, motivated by hatred and a heart filled with darkness, and incapable of listening. But most just need to hear the truth long enough until they are ready to accept it. Remember, in the 80′s Jerry Falwell was the nation’s foremost opponent of gay rights. But enough debates with enough people finally caused Jerry to rethink some positions and before he died he had reached the point where he accepted and supported pro-gay non-discrimination policies for work and housing.

Maybe… just maybe even Linda can be reached. No. That’s not likely. As her world crumbles and her image lies in disrepute, I predict she’ll take the Anita Bryant route and devolve into a pool of bitterness.

But we’ll share the truth with her anyway. It’s the right thing to do.

Harvey: stop allowing students not to speak

Timothy Kincaid

March 19th, 2012

Linda Harvey has well deserved her designation as head of one of the Southern Poverty Law Center’s (one-member) hate groups. Harvey hates Teh Ghey in all variations, forms, or iterations and she especially hates when Teh Ghey are allowed to be heard. Or be silent. It doesn’t really matter, she just wants the opposite of whatever Teh Ghey wants.

Which is what makes her annual rant about the Day of Silence so amusing. For just a moment, set aside the purpose of the Day of Silence and what it is intended to do. Take away the gay v. “pro-family” element and just look at what she says. The absurdity is delicious:

A coalition of pro-family groups is urging parents to keep their children home from school on the “Day of Silence,” if your school is allowing students to refuse to speak in class.

At least this year she’s dropped “disrupting the classroom” from her objections to silence.

Parents and Guardians: Call your children’s middle and high schools and ask if students and/or teachers will be permitted to refuse to speak during class on Friday, April 20, 2012.

I just have to laugh at this every time I read it. I can picture the school receptionist, “I’m sorry, Ma’am, but you’re upset that students will not talk in the classroom?”

When administrators refuse to listen to reason and when they allow the classroom to be exploited for political purposes, parents must take action. If they don’t, the politicization of the classroom and curricula will increase.

And she’s not trying to be ironic. Really. And finally we reach the pièce de résistance

It is unconscionable that conservative parents remain silent, acquiescent, fearful non-participants in our public schools while homosexuals and their ideological allies engage continuously in vociferous, vigorous, and bold action.

Ah yes. If students are allowed to be “vociferously” silent then conservative parents must NOT be silent in response.

The Eleven New Additions to the SPLC’s Anti-Gay Hate Groups List

Jim Burroway

March 8th, 2012

The revision came out this morning, but at the time I didn’t know who was new and who wasn’t among the now 26 hate anti-gay hate groups. Based on this cache from archive.org, these are the additions:

  • United Families International, Gilbert, AZ. (Carol Soelberg)
  • Save California, Sacramento, CA. (Randy Thomasson)
  • SonsOfThundr / Faith Baptist Church, Primrose, GA (Billy and Sandra Ball)
  • You Can Run, But You Cannot Hide, Annandale, MN (Bradlee Dean)
  • Parents Action League, Champlin, MN (Note, this is the group that fought anti-bullying programs at the Anoka-Hennepin Independent School District)
  • Jewish Political Action Committee, Brooklyn, NY.
  • Windsor Hills Baptist Church, Oklahoma City (Tom Vinyard)
  • Misson: America, Columbus, OH (Linda Harvey)
  • True Light Pentecost Church, Spartanburg, SC (H. Walker)
  • Tom Brown Ministries, El Paso, TX.
  • Public Advocate of the United States, Falls Church, VA (Eugene Delgaudio)

The San Diego-based Biblical Family Associates is no longer on the list this year. It appears to be inactive. Sandy, Utah-based America Forever has also been dropped after reportedly disbanding in 2010.

Linda Harvey: “No Proof” LGBT People Exist

Jim Burroway

August 27th, 2011

Maybe she's confusing LGBT people with fairies.

Mission America’s Linda Harvey said on her broadcast this weekend that the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network is spinning its wheels with its GLSEN Sports project, aimed at fostering a safe atmosphere for LGBT school athletes and phys-ed students, because there is no such thing as LGBT people:

There’s one big fact that’s not backed up. There is no proof that there’s ever anything like a gay, lesbian or bisexual or transgendered child, or teen or human. One of the other things you’re gonna see as I mentioned is a big campaign GLSEN’s gonna roll out this year calling for ‘respect,’ respect! Not just for people, but for homosexual lifestyle. The PR campaign to hold up gay as a good thing: the lifestyle, not the person, because there are no such humans.

It’s funny how much she obsesses over people who don’t exist, isn’t it?

Harvey and Glenn: Gays Make Bad Employees

Jim Burroway

July 6th, 2011

Mission America’s Linda Harvey and the American Family Association of Michigan’s Gary Glenn spoke on Harvey’s radio program, where the two of them warned against hiring gay employees. Right Wing Watch has the details:

Glenn: Herman Miller, which is a major employer and corporation in Holland [Michigan], a furniture company, supported this so-called gay rights ordinance on the claim that it allowed them to attract the best and brightest.

Harvey: Here we go, yeah we heard that before.

Glenn: What ridiculous folly to suggest that only those individuals who engage in homosexual behavior given all of its severe medical consequences constitute the best and the brightest. It’s not really bright to engage in behavior that puts you at dramatically higher risk of mental illness and substance abuse and AIDS and cancer and hepatitis, and according to various sources, premature death. So to suggest that engaging in that type of behavior defines someone as the best and brightest, which seems to be the line coming out of corporate America, is just ridiculous.

Harvey: You’re right. And higher rates of domestic violence and unstable relationships. I would not think of a homosexual person as a good employment risk, I just wouldn’t.

There is no closet deep enough that would ever satisfy these people

Linda Harvey on LGBT People Being “Allowed To Live and Love As They See Fit”

Jim Burroway

July 1st, 2011

Mission America’s Linda Harvey thinks we just simply shouldn’t be allowed:

Our President has launched a broad scale attack on traditional values. If homosexuals and transgenders are allowed to live and love as they see fit, we would have a whole societal mess on our hands, which is already starting to happen in some areas. We’re already seeing the denial of liberty, intimidation tactics, and flat out dirty tricks in the effort to silence concerned citizens, especially Christians. And I’m sure many of you are as dismayed as I am over our hyper-sexualized culture, well homosexual activism only puts that trend on steroids.

Gays Caused the Mortgage Meltdown

Jim Burroway

April 29th, 2011

Linda Harvey

Mission America’s Linda Harvey thinks she has connected the dots:

Families constructed around sexual deviance stand in defiance of God’s eternally –revealed truth. No matter how “conservatively” and faithfully two men or two women operate as they consider themselves a marital union, the structure is still in defiance of God’s created order of male and female as the framework for marriage. Men and women already have the right to marry, because they are free to marry someone of the opposite sex, so the goal is a new structure.

…The mortgage crisis was the sin of temptation being offered by those who relaxed legitimate standards, offered to those without the personal standards to resist. This easy-pay physical structure was too good to be true, and appealed to an increasingly covetous segment of our culture. Sexual and material covetousness are usually sin siblings. It would be interesting to study the families who have defaulted on mortgages for the correlations between structural and/or functional weaknesses like infidelity, divorce, gambling or porn addictions, job instability, credit card default, domestic abuse, sexual deviance, and criminality. There is also a high likelihood that poor or no church attendance would show up as a factor as well.

But back to our main point, probably few such households are homosexually-headed, because few homosexuals want to settle down to any kind of permanence, despite the plea for the honor of the marital designation. Many unmarried mothers of children born out of wedlock are on public assistance, which means they are unlikely to have had a mortgage. So when we look at the mortgage crisis, we could analyze it as a shift in the American family, but these families would not begin to reflect where the greatest structural weaknesses already exist

Along her meandering way of connecting those dots, Harvey takes a side trip to indlulge her fascination with gay sex:

But let’s take two men, trying unsuccessfully to “consummate” their relationship. It is impossible. Forgive the graphics here, but neither oral nor anal sex, nor mutual masturbation will ever unify them structurally. In fact, actual anatomical damage can occur through anal sex. This ought to serve as a big clue from God, in case we weren’t paying attention.

Um, first of all, it’s not “impossible.” Our relationships are consummated whether she likes it or not, and consumation — even of a straight relationship — involves something far more significant than “structure.” And besides, it seems to me that if anatomical damage occurs, then the biggest clue from God is that someone’s doing it all wrong.

LaBarbera and Harvey: Glee is Guilty of “Demonic Manipulation”

Jim Burroway

April 20th, 2011

Linda Harvey

Linda Harvey appeared in Peter “Porno Pete” LaBarbera’s radio program recently to bemoan anti-bullying measures in public schools because, you know, bullying is a Christian right. On LaBarbara’s radio show, Harvey called on parents to remove their children from public schools because the acceptance of LGBT youth is a part of ”God’s judgment.”

LaBarbera: You’re promoting homosexuality to middle school boys. Now, if that can go on in America, without consequence, then it’s over. Then we as a country are going to go straight downhill because you’re getting to the point where you are promoting perversion to boys who should be so innocent still.

Harvey: Innocent and when you think about Scripture and you think about history, the male culture of any society is the backbone, the strength, the honor, the nobility, the future, the vitality of the society. What are we doing with our young males? It is a symptom, I think its part of God’s judgment on us that we’re doing this and that people are not ripping their kids out of these schools by the thousands daily, they should be. Because there’s no reason for people to be in these schools if you have any other choices at all, not everybody does, but I really recommend it if people have a choice, they get their kids out of these schools.

Harvey also said that gay acceptance is the result of “Demonic manipulation”:

Harvey: These people are masters at demonic manipulation; I mean I have to put it that way, because that is what the homosexual agenda directed to that age group does. Kids don’t know what they’re going to turn out to be, kids can be secretly wondering and doubting if they are homosexual without a parent ever knowing. Because of A) what they get in schools, and B) what they get on the Internet.

LaBarbera: And then Hollywood, I talked about at our conference about this Glee kiss which is just, as I said at the conference, it shocked my soul. This romantic Glee kiss between two teenage boys depicted on the show, popular characters, one of the most popular if not the most popular TV show that young people watch, and here they had a romantic kiss between two teenage boys, I thought, what, how many young men and boys decided right there that they’re gay?

Wow. All it takes is a kiss on Glee, and wham! Gay kids!

World Net Daily’s magazine: for folks who are astonishingly stupid

Timothy Kincaid

November 4th, 2010

World Net Daily, the website who never goes a day without at least a few Shocking! Discoveries! about the Homosexual! Agenda!, is declaring that America has a gay obsession. Other than the obvious observation that WND is looking at a mirror and thinking its a window, they offer evidence that is even stupider than usual. It’s even stupider than when they told us that homosexuality is caused by soy products.

In fact, so gay obsessed are WND… oh, I mean America… that WND’s “magazine” Whistleblower (only $40 for the year, buy now!!) is dedicating the next issue to AMERICA’S ‘GAY’ OBSESSION.

It’s full of fascinating and fanciful articles such as:

* “The ‘gay’ deathstyle” by J. Matt Barber, in which the attorney explores implications of the shocking news that 20 percent of “gay” males in the U.S. are HIV-positive [actually it's 11.8%, but Barber isn't very good at comprehension and can't read beyond the first paragraph]

* “The zero-sum game of ‘gay rights’” by Peter LaBarbera, an eye-opening survey of casualties in the escalating war between homosexual activism and Americans’ freedom of conscience

* “What’s causing all the ‘gay’ teen suicides?” by Linda Harvey, who shows that while some blame anti-homosexual bigotry, the truth may be quite the opposite

Yes! Buy now and read that what America really needs today is more anti-homosexual bigotry so as to stop ‘gay’ teen suicides. And WND is so impressed with its magazine that they are printing testimonials from, well, themselves.

“This issue of Whistleblower is simply terrific,” said WND Editor Joseph Farah, “and there is no other news organization that will provide this kind of amazing information and analysis on a critical issue most are afraid to touch.

“Everybody who wants the America of the future to remain ‘a shining city on a hill’ needs to read ‘AMERICA’S GAY OBSESSION’ – and share it with others,” he said.

Added Kupelian: “I know everyone these days is preoccupied with politics and the economy, and may feel that ‘gay rights’ is just some ‘marginal social issue.’ I have news for you: This ‘marginal’ issue is increasingly outlawing the Christian faith. That’s not an exaggeration: Owen and Eunice Johns, a lovely Christian couple, want to open their home to foster children – but the government refuses and condemns them because they’re Christians who believe homosexuality is a sin.

“Get it? It’s no longer a matter of whether homosexuals are fit to adopt children or take them in as foster parents,” said Kupelian, “but rather, it is now Christian parents who are considered unacceptable to raise children. This is happening more and more.

“If you want to stop the rapid criminalization of Christianity, you need to read ‘AMERICA’S ‘GAY’ OBSESSION.’”

Just one small problem… the Johns are not exactly a clear example of America’s gay obsession or even of America’s “rapid criminalization of Christianity”. In fact, the Johns aren’t American at all. They live in Derby, about 130 miles north of London. And “the government” which is “condemning” them is not the United States but the United Kingdom.

But it’s okay. World Net Daily knows that their readers never look up anything for themselves. Or, if they do, they probably won’t know that England is not part of America. You see, WND counts on its readers being stupid. Really stupid. Astonishingly stupid.

The LaBarbera-Birther-Dominionist link

Timothy Kincaid

March 11th, 2010

To paraphrase a common phrase, “wackadoodle extremist nutcakes of a feather flock together”. So it should be no surprise to find anti-gay activists dancing the tango with “birthers” and other fringe political gadflies.

Currently anti-gay activist Peter LaBarbera is waging war on Dr. Warren Throckmorton. Throckmorton engages in the grievous sin of believing that therapists – even Christian therapists – should allow same-sex attracted clients who are seeking congruence with their religion to determine their path without overlaying the therapists’ views, even if it means that “some religious individuals will determine that their religious beliefs may become modified to allow integration of same-sex eroticism within their valued identity.”

But Throckmorton infuriates LaBarbera even more by questioning the efficacy of reparative therapy and noting that “it appears from the research that change is infrequent in attractions”. LaBarbera sees this as heresy or, in his words, Throckmorton has “lost his faith in God’s ability to change people.”

LaBarbera has begun a letter and media campaign seeking to threaten Throckmorton’s employment at Grove City College. And he’s rounded up a number of “concerned citizens” to assist in his quest. Not surprisingly, they are as, ummm, colorful as is Peter himself.

LindaHarveyFirst up was Linda Harvey. We know Linda well here at BTB and are familiar with her efforts to endanger the wellbeing of school children who may be discovering their same sex attractions.

But, for those who may not know the extent of Linda’s animus and how it goes to the very core of her self definition, these words from her “testimony” might shed some light.

It was 1992. I had spent months reading the Bible seriously for the first time in my life, and I was trembling on the brink of a stunning decision: to become a Christian, but not just another pew-warmer. I was increasingly tempted ­ beyond all conventional wisdom — to accept the Bible as true, which would make me one of “those” Christians.

So I continued on, hopeful in the joy of discovery. Plodding through the morality code passages in Leviticus ­ lambs being sacrificed, how to deal with boils and leprosy– I concluded some of the messages were symbolic, some were particular to that specific ancient time, while other messages were timeless. It was one of those timeless verses that stopped me cold.

“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.”

Whoa. If ever there was a definitive statement, this was it. I read it again, then continued on a little farther, looking for the escape clause. Not finding any, I read the passage again. Then I did some cross-referencing to find relevant verses about homosexuality in both the Old and New Testaments. This led me to Leviticus 20, Romans 1, and 1 Corinthians 6, passages conveying a consistent platform, strong and uncompromising. I mulled it over for a while, recognizing that it was probably a sub-category of the commandment against adultery. And for a woman thoroughly grounded in heterosexual desires, I had a very interesting reaction. I closed the Bible and stopped reading it for several weeks.

A troubling internal debate threatened my new faith. Even back then in 1992 ­ ancient history in the “gay rights” movement ­ I had absorbed the notion that only obtuse bigots opposed homosexuality. Every enlightened person knew that the freedom to practice homosexuality –responsibly, of course — would surely not threaten the mainstream, but would simply meet the needs of a small, harmless and kind of pitiful minority.

For several weeks I stewed about this, strongly tempted to return to the comfort of my familiar plastic beliefs. Opposing forces wrestled for authority in my mind and heart as I considered first one, then an alternative view of “truth.” What was the reality behind this issue? It was the first time, but not the last, where I would encounter a Joshua 24 moment. I needed to “choose this day whom I would serve.” I didn’t recognize the moving of the Holy Spirit yet, how He presents evidence before each of us in unique ways to drive us toward understanding. In deciding what to believe, or even how to sort it all out, I would be starting a journey toward either one or the other kingdom of two completely different masters.

Linda’s very essence – as “Christian not a pew-warmer” – is grounded in the rejection of the idea that gay people are non-threatening and the adoption as literal, relevant, and objectively true a Scriptural passage that calls for the execution of gay men. To Linda, this was the separation between “plastic beliefs” and choosing to serve God; her entire “journey” is based on the belief in death for homosexuals.

steve baldwinNext up was Steve Baldwin, “the former Executive Director of the Council for National Policy, a former State Assemblyman in California, and a longtime conservative Republican activist.” Baldwin wrote Grove City College’s president, seeking to discredit Throckmorton and threated to “no longer be recommending Grove City College” to “hundreds of conservative high school students” who ask him for a recommendation.

As might be expected, Baldwin is no friend of the gay community. His article written for the Regent University Law Review, Child Molestation and the Homosexual Movement, is a recitation of fabrications and oft-repeated but debunked demonizations.

It is difficult to convey the dark side of the homosexual culture without appearing harsh. However, it is time to acknowledge that homosexual behavior threatens the foundation of Western civilization the nuclear family. An unmistakable manifestation of the attack on the family unit is the homosexual community’s efforts to target children both for their own sexual pleasure and to enlarge the homosexual movement. The homosexual community and its allies in the media scoff at this argument. They insist it is merely a tactic to demonize the homosexual movement. After all, they argue, heterosexual molestation is a far more serious problem.

Unfortunately, the truth is stranger than fiction. Research confirms that homosexuals molest children at a rate vastly higher than heterosexuals, and the mainstream homosexual culture commonly promotes sex with children. Homosexual leaders repeatedly argue for the freedom to engage in consensual sex with children, and blind surveys reveal a shockingly high number of homosexuals admit to sexual contact with minors. Indeed, the homosexual community is driving the worldwide campaign to lower the legal age of consent.

The thesis is breathtaking in its dishonesty.

As we have shown, the premises behind such claims are based on the false assumption that every adult who molests a child of the same sex is, by default, homosexual even if he identifies as heterosexual, is married, and has a long string of opposite sex victims.

Of course, activists like Baldwin don’t limit their extremist to gays. He also advocates for library censorship. But his greatest influence was as the executive director of the Council for National Policy, a dominionist secretive right-wing umbrella group.

After Baldwin was Priscilla Smith, “a freelance writer based in Indiana”. Smith disapproved of an email that was purportedly sent by “David Bier, Grove City College Senior” to LaBarbera in which he states, “Your recent article on Grove City College professor Warren Throckmorton is yet another of your pathetic attempts to mislead otherwise moral individuals into the belief that God disapproves of homosexuality.”

This convenient email – whether genuine or contrived – was Smith’s jumping off point. She ranted:

They are about to graduate a young man from their so-called Christian institution without teaching him that God not only disapproves of homosexuality, but He describes it as an abomination, unnatural, dishonorable, perversion, depravity.

I don’t know much about Ms. Smith. If she is a freelance writer, she’s rather selective about making her writings available.

After the elusive Ms. Smith, the Peter ran a commentary by Michael Glazte. As readers may recall, Glatze had been a gay activist (though few knew who he was, he thought of himself as a “rising star”) who became ex-gay and converted to Mormonism before settling on conservative Christianity while working at a Buddhist retreat. Currently he seems to hold a grudge against Throckmorton, and lent his voice to the attack.

I have experienced Professor Throckmorton’s forked tongue, as he has pretended to seek “my side” of the story various times, then turned around and told a biased side of the same story, in a public sphere, with the intention of discrediting my testimony and shaming my stance for Gospel truth. As we have all seen, throughout Christian history, it is quite easy for people to create false worlds, to skew human perception, to persecute Christian truth. Sadly, this professor at a seemingly-reputable Christian school, has engaged in these tactics, with the outcome of persecuting the very truth he supposedly is teaching, atop his perch.

Michael_Glatze
Aside from Glatze’s bitterness, he betrays a worldview that heightens the concerns that have been expressed about his mental stability. He seems to think that “objective” and “subjective” are filtered through dogma rather than observations so that “objective truth” becomes that which he’s been taught and now believes.

It is funny. In this world, truth seems to almost be subjective. Then, you meet Jesus. In Jesus, truth is objective. It is from this vantage point that I write this.

Such a way of thinking lends itself easily to cults and manipulation. It certainly has led to some peculiar political views. After advocating for bullying in schools (“Bullying in schools is a part of life, a part of growth“) and making some racists comments about President Obama, even NARTH removed him from their site.

But the very latest participant in LaBarbera’s campaign of personal destruction is also perhaps the most peculiar. Margaret Hemenway, described by the Peter as “a Virginia parent”. She pretended to be the mother of a 16 year-old girl who, after attending Catholic school, was considering attending the evangelical Grove City College.

We want our children to grow up to be healthy and happy–enjoying a wholesome college experience–not one which will undermine their years in a safe and nurturing Catholic educational environment. It is remarkable that the College would permit this professor, given your school’s Biblical charter, to crusade on behalf of homosexuality–would you also allow your staff to advocate openly for adultery, pornography or prostitution–other sexual sins? Where do you draw the line and how is the professor’s conduct and activity consistent with your Christian mission? We would look forward to your reply.

Hemenway first blipped my radar in 2008 when she claimed in an article hosted by Human Events that her daughter’s first grade teacher told her class that she was marrying another woman and “read aloud, “Uncle Bobby’s Wedding,” about two male “gay” guinea pigs, promoted by the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual Transgender Lobby for children.” She claims to have lodged a complaint.

But Margaret Calhoun Hemenway is no Virginia parent new to politics. Her bio states

Mrs. Hemenway spent 15 years on Capitol Hill in various staff positions in the Senate and the House, followed by five years in the Pentagon. She is married to a native of Washington, D.C. and is a proud parent of three school-age children.

And Hemenway is not shy in expressing her views. Currently she contributes to FamilySecurityMatters.org. And it is from her writings there that we find Hemenway’s more peculiar political activism.

It seems that Hemenway’s father-in-law, John D. Hemenway, is a lawyer heavily involved with the “Birther” movement, a collection of conspiracy theorists who believe that President Obama is not eligible to be President because he was not born in the United States.

From a letter he wrote to Rupert Murdock:

That problem is this: the man now occupying the White House is likely Constitutionally unqualified to hold the office.

As an attorney, I facilitated a lawsuit (Hollister vs. Soetoro et al.) in the United States District Court (D.C. Circuit) demanding that Obama produce his birth certificate or satisfactory substitute evidence.

But I am not trying to peg Margaret with guilt by association. She has written or her own faith in the birther movement.

Mr. Obama’s lawyers are now threatening my 84-year-old father-in-law, through Judge Robertson, with penalties of legal fees for pursuing the truth about Mr. Obama’s birth. This threat of financial sanctions is meant to silence all of us who remain unsatisfied with equivocations by the Obama camp about his legal qualifications to become President, and to punish us for pursuing our Constitutionally-guaranteed right to redress.

The Obama campaign, with questions about his birth in Kenya to his Kenyan father (a British citizen), and his years in Indonesia where he was known as Barry Soetoro (taking the surname of his stepfather), was not nearly as forthcoming as the McCain campaign. What was posted in support of Mr. Obama’s eligibility was not a birth certificate, but something that resembles a “Certification of Live Birth” or COLB, which, even if authentic, does not prove “natural born” U.S. citizenship. In Hawaii, a Certification of Live Birth is issued within a year of a child’s birth to those who register a birth overseas or one that takes place outside of a hospital.

So in his desire to punish and discredit Dr. Throckmorton, anti-gay activist Peter LaBarbera has surrounded himself with a most fascinating collection of characters: a woman who’s very identity is defined by her adoption of death-penalty based Levitical prohibition on homosexuality, a dominionist whose writings on homosexuality mirror those of Paul Cameron, an unknown freelance writer named Smith, an ex-gay with a grudge and a history of sporadic religious associations and a questionable worldview, and a Birther.

As history progresses and even conservatives begin to see gay people as human – as their friends, family, neighbors and co-workers – those who are left behind are increasingly appearing as fringe and, frankly, more than a little weird. And these are just the ones that Peter is taking public.

Linda Harvey takes purer-than-pure to a whole new level

Timothy Kincaid

March 8th, 2010

Most social conservatives are not wild eyed hate-filled bigots who would like nothing more than to see gay folks burnt at the stake. Most folks who don’t support civil equality for their gay fellow-citizens really don’t know much about gay folk and don’t actually wish us individual harm. It’s more of a “them liberals” kind of thing.

And over the past decade Americans – including many folks who think of themselves as conservative – have began the process of seeing gay folk as human. We are neighbors, friends, coworkers, and family. We no longer are “confirmed bachelors” and “maiden aunts” living with “lifelong friends” who are a shameful secret, but instead are respected and acknowledged parts of our community.

And, as such, it is no longer socially acceptable to just oppose anything and everything to do with our lives. Yes, polls suggest that the nation isn’t quite ready to joyously celebrate marriage equality, but blatant discrimination is frowned on, even in right-wing circles. Especially if it sounds too hateful.

Ah, but not everyone is on board with the “treat ‘em like human” idea. As we saw with the recent brouhaha at CPAC, some folks can’t even be in the same room with gay folk – even those who agree with most of their agenda. The uber-conservative CPAC crowd got a taste of excitement when the purer-than-pure conservatives attacked their brethren for not being adequately anti-gay.

LindaHarveyBut no one has ever accused Linda Harvey of noting being adequately anti-gay. In fact, few can live up to her standard. And now Linda is letting conservatives know just how pure she is, in the offensive over-the-top inflammatory language she’s know for.

Linda has decided that some people aren’t really conservative because they “support homosexuality”. And by “support homosexuality”, Linda means pretty much anything other than venom-spewing declarations of disgust and intolerance. Anything short of piling up the firewood and calling for the torches is seen by Linda as selling out.

And the list of “Conservatives who aren’t” is pretty impressive. Folks who just aren’t as pure as Lina include:

  • CPAC, for allowing GOPride to be there
  • “Bill O’Reilly and his feebly-informed culture warrior, Margaret Hoover” because they ” endorse repealing the ban on homosexuality in the military”
  • Charles Krauthammer, who thinks that Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell is discriminatory
  • Dick Cheney, for “listening to a self-declared ‘born-that-way’ homosexual relative”
  • “Cindy McCain and her silly daughter” for backing same-sex unions
  • Mitt Romney, because ” in 2004, ordered reluctant clerks to issue marriage licenses to Party A and Party B. A genuine conservative might have held off until forced.”
  • Ted Olson, for the obvious
  • Stand for Marriage Maine, for saying “we want to be tolerant of gays”
  • Maggie Gallagher, because she can’t be depended on to “always articulate clear objections to homosexual behavior. Sometimes, she bows the knee to the vaunted ‘identity’”
  • The Catholic Church, because it says that it “respects and accepts gays”

Oh yes, when it comes to being a real conservative, Linda is purer-than-purer-than-pure.

It’s behavior, it can be changed and it’s always wrong.

Teach kids to “respect” this behavior? No! Respect for others, yes, but people are born with the anatomy for heterosexuality, not homosexuality. Genuine respect involves telling the truth, and citing the risks, limitations and sinfulness of this perversion.

Ah, but lovely Linda has an extra-special place in her contempt for one fellow who is worse than anyone: Warren Throckmorton. Ya see, Warren actually thinks that you should treat gay people the way you want to be treated. Such heresy!!

And Warren has gone so far as to suggest that instead of storming out of school on the Day of Silence, conservative Christian kids should observe the Golden Rule and hand out the following message.

This is what I’m doing:

I pledge to treat others the way I want to be treated.

Will you join me in this pledge?

“Do to others as you would have them do to you.” (Luke 6:31).

But not Linda. She’s having none of that.

If I were a parent who discovered my minor child had been counseled in this way, I’d bring the largest and most aggressive medical malpractice suit I could launch against this counselor at Grove City.

Golden Rule? Not on your life.

And so now Warren is the pet project for Linda and her buddy Peter LaBarbera. LaBarbera has run a series of denunciations of “heretical” Dr. Throckmorton and has asked his readers to

TAKE ACTION: Contact Grove City College (President Richard Jewell: 724-458-2500; rgjewell@gcc.edu) and ask them if GCC professor Warren Throckmorton’s unorthodox views on homosexuality represent “authentically Christian” teachings on this issue. (GCC advertises itself as a solid, “authentically Christian” institution.) Request a written response as to whether Throckmorton’s writings on and approach toward homosexuality honor Grove City’s Christian charter “rejecting relativism and secularism.”

Yes, it looks like Warren should be fired; he just can’t be counted on to be a hater. Nor Bill O’Reilly. Nor even the Catholic Church. Or at least not up to Linda’s and Pete’s standards. It’s a sad sad world.

But at least Linda and Pete have each other. And Pete’s porn collection.

Linda Harvey Fears Tolerance

Timothy Kincaid

November 6th, 2009

linda_harveyWhen it comes time for the annual Day of Silence, anti-gay activist Linda Harvey will be once again be calling for children to stay home from school. And Christian media will present her as a mild smiling pro-family advocate.

But don’t be deceived. Linda Harvey is one of the most strident opponents to equality, decency, and civil rights that our community faces.

Some of those who oppose equality do so out of a sense of religious obligation, yet also feel some remorse and can be persuaded to find some measure of accommodation for the difficulties that the put us through. Polls show that many conservative Christians who do not favor marriage equality will still find hospital visitation or inheritance issues to be matters of compassion and mercy. They oppose employment discrimination and favor open military service.

But not Linda.

In an article for WorldNetDaily, Harvey rages about a tactic employed by the organizers of the anti-gay marriage campaign in Maine. She is furious that an ad was run which expressed a message of tolerance.

Abandoning traditional marriage entails real consequences, yet we want to be tolerant of gays. Maine’s Domestic Partnership laws provide substantial legal protection for gay couples. Any problems remaining can be addressed without dismantling traditional marriage. It’s possible to support the civil rights of all citizens and protect traditional marriage at the same time.

Tolerant? Is Linda among those who wish to be tolerant? No, she most certainly is not! And as for “civil rights”, she thinks you should have none.

Are there indeed “rights” that need to be accorded to the behavior of homosexuality? No self-respecting Christian would take this position.

Linda goes on to delight in the lies that the campaign told about schoolchildren and the threat that gay people are to them. And she lists the sad tired (distorted and false) tales of the woe in Massachusetts and California. And then her venom spews:

But the student endangerment message made no sense paired with the last-minute, “We’re really tolerant” positioning of the campaign as cited above. Opponents would easily be able to see through the apparent hypocrisy: Why should parents
worry about their children being indoctrinated into homosexual acceptance, if “gays” ought to be tolerated? If we ought to respect their “rights”? This sudden shift had a desperation tinge to it and leaves pro-family forces vulnerable in the future to accusations of lying through our teeth. Christians do not do well with hypocrisy. We need to tell the truth.

The Catholic Church in Maine made similar foolish accommodations. In reacting to the victory, Bishop Richard Malone said that the church upholds marriage yet “respects and accepts gays.” Really? The Catholic Church accepts homosexual behavior? Two men having sex with one another? Women excluding men from their lives and shacking up as lesbians? This is respectable and acceptable in Catholic teachings? This seems to say there might be truth to the claim of “gay” identity, something homosexualists would love for Christians to embrace.

But amidst Linda’s hateful rantings (and yes, they are hateful), she sees something that we have long noted. The position of much of our opposition in inherently contradictory.

One cannot both tolerate and accept gay people and simultaneously exclude and segregate them. One cannot value the worth of the gay person and also relegate him to second class citizenship. If you “respect and accept” gay people as children of God worthy of His love, then you can’t call for sanctions, penalties, and punishments for the existence of those children.

And I believe that in time, perhaps a very short time, this delusion of “I love you but I want to treat you badly” will fall under its own weight. Ultimately, those who seek our civil exclusion will have to choose to either truly accept us as an equal member of the family of man, or stop pretending that they feel for us anything but contempt.

And I suspect that Linda sees the writing on the wall. I think she fears that she will in time be among but a small minority who selects the latter choice.

Linda Harvey’s Non-Condemnation of Tel Aviv Anti-Gay Violence

Timothy Kincaid

August 3rd, 2009

Linda Harvey of Mission America is one of those anti-gay activists that live at the extreme end of bias and animus. There are few things which Harvey would find too vile or outrageous to say. Nor would she ever let basic decency stay her hand or common sense slow down her all-encompasing need to spew bile and venom on gay people.

Today decent people in Israel and around the world are mourning a horrible crime, a mass murder that seems at this time to likely be based on hatred towards gay people. While the world seeks to discover whether this attack on gay youth was a terror message based on the murderer’s homophobic religious zeal, Linda thinks this is a good opportunity to spout her own religious anti-gay rhetoric.

Now Linda knows that she can’t exactly say, “They deserved what they got.” That wouldn’t sit well with even her most ardent supporters, none of whom like to think of themselves as motivated by hatred. So Linda starts her press release saying, “We are deeply saddened by this violent act and the deaths of these young people, and pray for the perpetrator to be found and brought to justice.”

Now I’m sure she thinks no one will notice that she didn’t exactly condemn the action. She’s “saddened” and prays for justice, but doesn’t quite say that what was done was deplorable. What she does find deplorable, however, she’s not slow to state:

At the same time, it is deplorable this incident is already being used by the homosexual community to blame this act on those holding a traditional moral viewpoint.

These are Linda’s values: machine gun attack on gay youth, “saddening”; condemnation of homophobia, “deplorable”.

She also defends “those who bravely stand up against the deviance of homosexuality” and considers it bigotry to blame them for crimes like the one in Tel Aviv. And her sadness for the two who died extends only to the fact that they will now have no chance to be ex-gay (though one wasn’t even gay).

She doesn’t mention those who were wounded. She speaks of not wanting harm to come in the lives of the young people, but a closer look reveals that to Linda “harm” is not bullets, but homosexuality.

I will not call Linda’s statement an “endorsement.” She does not commend the shooter – specifically – or call for more violence. But the consistent message in Linda’s press release is that the kids at the center shouldn’t have been there, they were engaging in deviancy, and that those who oppose such deviancy are brave and moral.

It doesn’t take much imagination to know where Linda’s sympathies lie.

Jeremy Hooper’s Commentary on Linda Harvey

Jim Burroway

May 28th, 2008

Jeremy Hooper’s Commentary on Linda HarveyJeremy Hooper at Good As You got wind of our little tussle with Mission America’s Linda Harvey, who demanded that we remove her photo from Timothy Kincaid’s post exposing her dishonesty about the Day of Silence.

Now I would have probably written a long dissertation about the “fair use” doctrine in copyright law, which gives us permission to copy small works without attribution or permission for purposes of parody, criticism, commentary, news reporting, educational use, etc. I also would have written at length about how posting non-reproducible thumbnails are acceptable under copyright laws, a rule that is mainly intended to protect works of art from theft — and not to protect dishonest people from embarrassment.

Let’s just say that Jeremy’s approach to the question was a little different.

Linda Harvey Thinks We’re AWFUL

Timothy Kincaid

May 27th, 2008

I just found the following message from Linda Harvey, the… umm… rather determined anti-gay activist. Although she sent it Friday, for some reason the yahoo filters put it in my junk e-mail box rather than my inbox.

linda-email.bmp

It seems Linda didn’t like that we put her picture on our commentary about her blatant dishonesty. So, out of respect for Linda’s politely worded request, I’ve now replaced her photo with a generic graphic of no one in particular.

some-woman.JPG

Please note that this is not a representation of Linda. Please also note that I did not include horns on this picture.

I’m glad you found us, Linda. I hope that you keep reading.

UPDATE: Digging further in my junk mail box shows that Linda was really QUITE insistent that we not post her picture. Earlier that day she had sent the following message:

REMOVE MY PHOTO FROM YOUR SITE IMMEDIATELY!! I did not obviously give you permission to post this.

IF YOU DO NOT DO SO I will contact my attorney.

WITH GREAT SINCERITY,

Linda Harvey
Mission America
www.missionamerica.com
www.truthatschool.org

PS–If you were true journalists you would have asked permission and also asked me to comment on your distortions.

Ah, Linda. By all means, check with your attorney. And if you have any comments to make on my “distortions”, I’ll be glad to hear them.

Older Posts