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Supreme Court Declines to Review California’s Conversion Therapy Ban

Jim Burroway

June 30th, 2014

In other less-talked about Supreme Court news today, the high court declined to hear an appeal challenging California’s ban on sexual orientation change therapy for minors. This leaves in place a Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruling stating that the state of California had a legitimate interest in banning professional treatments that were considered harmful. As is customary, the Supreme Court didn’t give a reason for declining the appeal.

While California’s converstion therapy ban prohibits licensed professionals from providing change orientation therapy to minors, it does not apply to unlicensed religious-based ex-gay ministries, nor does it prohibit licensed professionals from providing sexual orientation change therapy to adults. Nevertheless, it’s likely to have a serious financial effect on licensed providers. In 2012, Joseph Nicolosi, co-founder of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH) which bills itself as the professional arm of the ex-gay movement, admitted that about half of all NARTH clients are teens. NARTH, which had appealed the case to the Supreme Court with the help of Liberty Counsel, has not yet issued a statement responding to the Supreme Court’s refusal to hear their case. Liberty Counsel’s Mat Staver issued a statement however that is about as nasty as it gets:

I am deeply saddened for the families we represent and for the thousands of children that our professional clients counsel, many of whom developed these unwanted attractions because of abuse of a pedophile. …These children have been victimized twice –  first by the likes of Jerry Sandusky, and second by legislators and judges who have essentially barged into their private therapy rooms and told them that they must pursue their unwanted and dangerous same-sex sexual attractions and behavior.

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Paul Douglas
July 1st, 2014 | LINK

I have no doubt that Mat Staver is a christianist. I am always amazed at how disingenuous these religious people can be. The truth is only important when it is convenient for their agenda or it corroborates their worldview. They will say and do (almost) anything to further their cause.

Priya Lynn
July 1st, 2014 | LINK

“Joseph Nicolosi, co-founder of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH) which bills itself as the professional arm of the ex-gay movement, admitted that about half of all NARTH clients are teens.”.

That says a lot right there. The idea promoted by anti-gay sympathyzers that most, or even a significant portion of gay teens in “ex-gay” “therapy” chose to be there is proven false by that statistic. These children need to be protected from their parents forcing them into this, which is what happens in almost every case.

Bhattacharya
July 8th, 2014 | LINK

People distrust mainstream psychologists or mental health ‘professionals’ on homosexuality because-

1. They arrogantly say they’re mental health professionals as though what they say is infallible.

2. They have pro-homosexual biases and are dishonest. Psychology since 1973 in the USA usually has a pro-homosexual bias and not trustworthy. If a psychologist says truth which offends homosexual groups, then it gets condemned by homosexual groups.

If you are going to condemn therapy for homosexuals and lesbians who want to change to heterosexuality then you may as well condemn therapy for drug/drinking problems because such therapy often fails. Is it possible for a homosexual or lesbian to change sexual behavior and sexual orientation to heterosexuality? There are gays and lesbians who sincerely believe they changed to heterosexuality and without contrary proof only they know. Saying 1 does not know and that they will not conclude until they are convinced is Okay. The right thing to do is to hope they are right in their belief and that they did change to heterosexuality.

However, It is arrogant for psychologists or mental health ‘professionals’ to think they know and condemn by saying they did not change to heterosexuality. It would be rude for a psychologist to condemn an alcoholic who thinks he or she sincerely recovered. Repair therapy for gays and lesbians who want to be straight must be available just as repair therapy must be available for a drug junky who wants to become clean.

Can sexual orientation for some gays and lesbians change? We know that sexual behavior can. In 2001 Dr. Spitzer said that change was possible for highly motivated individuals and that happened after long journey and he got condemned by gay/lesbian groups. In 2007, he said that while gays and lesbians should not be forced into therapy, he believed it was the hubris of psychologists to deny this for those who want it.

In 2012, Dr. RL Spitzer retracted, apologized to gay/lesbian groups, saying therapy doesn’t work and condemned it. What I must wonder is did Dr. Spitzer in 2012 say what he believed, or did he say it to pacify gay/lesbian groups ? People have a right to doubt Dr. Spitzer’s sincerity.

Repair therapy for gays and lesbians who want to be straight must be available just as repair therapy available for a drug junky who wants to become clean. Yes, proof burden is on repair therapists, but if you aren’t going to have repair therapy for homsexuality/lesbianism, then you may as well not have repair therapy for drug junkyism or drunkardism.

Eric Payne
July 9th, 2014 | LINK

Bhattacharya,

This is the second thread in which you’ve posted commentary almost directly quoting Tony Perkins and/or the FRC as your source material, apparently never questioning the accuracy of that source.

Yet you denigrate psychiatrists/psychologists with your “as if they were infallible” comment.

Homosexuality has been removed from its old standard of being a mental illness for three decades now. The reason it was removed? One by one, the old canards concerning homosexual men and women were disproven.

Homosexuality caused by a distant (either emotionally or geographically) father? Disproven.

Overly attentive/doting mothers cause homosexuality? Disproven.

Homosexuality caused by a childhood same-sex molestation? Again, disproven.

Homosexuals die in their 40s? Not only was that disproven, the “researcher” who conducted that particular “study” — Paul Cameron — was stripped of his professional credentials for the way the “study” was conducted; now, his “doctorate” is an honorarium.

Homosexuals are persons whose emotional attractions are for persons of their own gender. If you know any gay people, and are willing to listen to them! ask when they first realized they were gay. They’ll tell you, and you’ll discover that at about the same age you started to notice girls (in a childhood “romantic” way), they started noticing boys.

We gay people recognize how difficult it can be to change a mind-set that is drilled into everyone as a basic tenet of “learning,” which is the “normal/abnormal” paradigm. It’s how we view everything in life. There’s a baseline, and that’s the norm. Anything that variant es from that baseline, then, is not the norm, and so it is, obviously, abnormal.

With human sexuality, that “one norm” thinking has been discarded to most fully embrace the actuality of human emotional attractions.

cowboy
July 9th, 2014 | LINK

If you are debating someone who equates homosexuality with alcoholism/drug-abuser you are in a losing battle.

Even when one major player (Exodus) in the conversion therapy fraud has folded and apologized for the years of angst and lies is not enough to convince these myth-addled, conspiracy-loony trolls.

(Evergreen also folded but never apologized…as far as I know.)

But we need to stop arguing and elevate the discussion to say: Homosexuality is not a disease nor something you have to ‘fix’.

Eric Payne
July 9th, 2014 | LINK

Cowboy,

Everything you say is true, but it also never hurts to take a deep breath and make the attempt to educate.

Bhattacharya
July 9th, 2014 | LINK

Eric, behavior including sexual behavior can be learned. Never have I heard straights blame childhood sex abuse for reasons a man has sex with a woman and fathers children with her. Yet sometimes have heard gays and lesbians say childhood sex abuse is reason they do same sex behaviors. Sex abuse in youth can cause people to behave in ways. It’s not controversial to talk of nightmares, suicides, bed wetting often a result of sex abuse in youth. Yet when 1 talks gay/lesbian behaviors in adulthood because they learned this sexual behavior by being repeatedly molested, then gays with politically safe psychologists complain. The politically correct psychologists who deny this know it’s possible for a boy to turn out gay as a result of childhood sex abuse, yet deny what they know is true. Of course, not all who are sexually abused in youth become gay in adulthood-but the risk is higher.

Main ideas of science and math are always the same (such as freezing temperature is 32 Degrees Fahrenheit & lower, 2+2=4) and with main ideas of science, unless new information is found which changes prior conclusion (such as in 1950s when they found a whale is a mammal not a fish as scientists first thought), the main ideas of science stay the same. I do not believe mainstream science/psychology in the 1960s to early 70s discovered anything new to change long held conclusions on homosexuality when they removed homosexuality from DSM in 1973. They have as said since 1973 become ideological on gay/lesbian topic. I don’t deny possibility homosexuality could be genetic or inborn for some but that is unproven. Even if it’s true that homosexuality is inborn for some people, homosexual/lesbian conduct would still be bad for health. Homosexual/lesbian conduct needs to be marginalized such as smoking/tobacco use is.

I know my view offends homosexuals, but most smokers do not get offended by negative views of tobacco use. So homosexuals/lesbians have to hear others give negative views of their sex lives, because there is something wrong with this just as there’s something wrong with smoking.

Repair therapy for gays and lesbians who want to be straight must be available just as repair therapy must be available for a drug junky who wants to become clean. For a therapy to have best chance of success, the patient has to want it for themselves. If a person goes into therapy because he or she is pressured by peers into this, they are usu. not going to last long because they don’t sincerely want it. If a kid is a junky and he or she doesn’t want therapy to quit drugs, then it’s usu. going to fail because they don’t want it. You can not force a person into therapy minus a court order and even if you do, if they don’t sincerely want it, it’s usu. will fail. While repair therapy to treat gayism, lesbianism often fails, using what you ask, we also should not have repair therapy to treat smoking, drug junkyism, etc. because that often fails. Minors can not be forced into therapy against will-minus a court order such as requiring medicines for a minor who does not want medicines.

Yes, it should also be the right of homosexuals and lesbians not to go into repair therapy just as I support right of tobacco users not to have repair therapy to quit smoking and I support right of any lucid person to refuse medical care such as if a lucid person’s a heart attack victim and does not want open heart surgery, then it should be their right to refuse this. Yes, proof burden is on repair therapists, but if you aren’t going to have repair therapy for homsexuality/lesbianism, then you may as well not have repair therapy for drug junkyism or drunkardism, because such therapy often fails and high relapses. Is it possible for a homosexual or lesbian to change sexual behavior and sexual orientation to heterosexuality? There are gays and lesbians who sincerely believe they changed to heterosexuality and without contrary proof only they know.

Eric Payne
July 9th, 2014 | LINK

Bhattacharya,

Sexual activity between two persons of differing genders is the norm for the heterosexually oriented individual.

Sexual activity between two persons of the same gender is the norm for the homosexually oriented person.

Sexual activity between someone of the same gender, or someone of the opposite gender is the norm for the bisexually oriented.

That there are far more heterosexuals than homosexuals does not make heterosexual sexual activity “the norm” for everyone.

As for there being a greater risk to health/injury to the body caused by homosexual sexual activity… there’s not. Do straight women not perform oral sex on men? Don’t heterosexuals also engage in anal sex? Or are you saying heterosexuals are somehow, magically, immune from general diseases and other sexually transmitted illnesses?

If you assert that some people, as adults, are homosexual because they were raped as a child by someone of their same gender, then you must also be saying some people are, as adults, heterosexual because they were raped as a child by someone of their opposite gender, right?

All the crap you espouse — and there’s really no other way to describe it — is garbage that’s been, piece-by-piece, dismissed by doctors, courts and elected officials. But because it’s also crap that, at one time, worked when used against gays at points in the past, it all gets trotted out again and again, prefaced with some form of “everybody knows” this to be true.

But it’s not.

There’s no such impairment as “Gay Bowel Syndrome.” Don’t believe me? Check out a Physician’s Desk Reference, or ask a doctor.

Gay men do love; my husband and I just celebrated our 19th anniversary on the 25th of last month, and I still watch him sleep at night; we just touch fingers on the tabletop when we dine out. We talk to each other about the little things in life; we make all major decisions together. Because he asked me to, I went through all the testing required to qualify for the heart transplant list in AZ. Because I asked him to, he’s agreed to respect my decision to have a standing DNR order. We each have a life, but our lives are craided into this single, awesome construct of “Our Life.”

In the 70s, Anita Bryant used to say: “Gays can’t reproduce, therefore they must recruit!”, but that’s not true; gays can reproduce: Our semen is collected and either dispersed into a female in the hopes fertilization occurs, naturally, or is introduced to an egg pre-collected, with the now-fertilized egg implanted into a willing female.

Or, we adopt.

Or some of us have natural children of our own, being forced, in our younger adult years, to be “normal, get a wife, and have children.

But you’ve got no interest in any of this; all you want to do is get some thrill of coming to a news commentary site dealing with gay rights and get yourself a little fag bashing in. Enjoy yourself.

Bhattacharya
July 9th, 2014 | LINK

Eric, You know you are saying nothing new which I haven’t thought about. Even if orientation doesn’t change, it’s best for gays/lesbians to be celibate just as it’s best for a person with tobacco orientation not to smoke.

If homosexuality is inborn as some scientists believe, then it would be a birth defect. study which though needs to be replicated links smoking to homosexuality in adulthood http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10582504/Smoking-increases-chances-of-child-being-homosexual-in-adulthood.html

They have higher rates of smoking during pregnancy and Fetal Alcohol Syndrome on reservations so it would be a study to find out links between American Indian women smoking during pregnancy and a baby turning out homosexual or lesbian in adulthood. In 2011, I had suggested the link between a woman smoking during pregnancy and the increased risk of the baby turning out homosexual in adulthood, so this study is not new.

Incidentally, most straight people do NOT do anal because only a dirty woman like murderess Jodi Ann Arias would do or a woman who is into scat or a man who is into a woman’s turds and gas would do anal. Most straight people only do penis/vaginal sex & for most straight people, their sex lives peak out because it’s been there done that. Yes Eric, there are many straight couples whose relationships become celibate after years of marriage because the sex gets boring.

& Eric, it depends on your definition. Again, it’s sexual conduct or behavior which defines if 1 is straight or homosexual. Even if a person has had opposite sex relations, if they knowingly and willing do homosexual behavior, then they’re homosexuals and lesbians. All homosexual pedofiles are homosexuals. All transexuals are homosexual/lesbian as the act of mutilating to become false opposite sex is itself an act of homosexuality/lesbianism-sad maiming and make this illegal. Homosexual groups got offended when columnist Patrick J. Buchanan condemned who he called gay priests. What those priests did when they molest young boys is homosexuality. NC Register in a past link called it homosexual pedofilia among the priests. Yes, this is repeating but it must again be said that if a person has same sex conduct with young boys and girls then they are homosexual and lesbian pedofiles because it’s the same sex conduct which defines. Asking me again will get you the same answer.

Timothy Kincaid
July 10th, 2014 | LINK

Sure, Bhattacharya, except that

* there is no such thing as “a person with tobacco orientation”.

* smoking tobacco may be intrinsically harmful. Being gay and living as such does not exhibit any intrinsic harm.

* your opinions about what “a dirty woman” is consists entirely in your own personal opinions and biases and are of no relevance in a discussion with those who do not share your own hang-ups.

* it’s true that most straight people do not do anal. Surveys show that only about 40% of women do. Regularly. Oh, and women’s ogasm rates are higher from anal sex than for vaginal or oral.

* your definitions of what is or isn’t homosexual is of no more value than your opinions about what is “dirty”.

* your ignorance on this subject is greater than most anti-gay people I’ve encountered.

But otherwise, yeah sure.

Priya Lynn
July 10th, 2014 | LINK

Bhattacharya said “Again, it’s sexual conduct or behavior which defines if 1 is straight or homosexual.”.

That’s pretty dumb Bhattacharya. Its who you are attracted to that determines whether a person is straight, gay, or bisexual. Virgins have a sexual orientation. A straight woman or man can have gay sex. A gay or lesbian can have straight sex. Your sexual orientation doesn’t change with who you have sex with, nor is it determined by that.

Bhattacharya
July 10th, 2014 | LINK

Timothy K-know that a person can be secular as I am and see the harms of homosexual and lesbian conduct. You know you are saying nothing new which I haven’t thought about. My reasons for being against gay/lesbian behaviors and being against sex changes are unrelated to any religion. If homosexuality is inborn, then it would be a birth defect.
There are many like me who do not trust the American Medical Association (AMA) on gay/lesbian topic because the AMA and APA are both pro-gay/lesbian ideologues who arrogantly think because are Drs., that they know the answers. But they are dishonest.

I think you know any behavior can be learned but deny what you know is true. If a boy is repeatedly homosexually raped in his youth, the likelihood is more that he’ll do homosexual behaviors in adulthood because the sex abuse can damage mind and cause people to act in ways they normally wouldn’t. It’s like if a kid lives in a high crime neighborhood & sees muggings, the likelihood is more that he’ll be a mugger in his adulthood because of what he learned in his youth. It remains to be seen how many of Gerald Arthur (Jerry) Sandusky’s victims will think in their adulthood that they’re homosexual.

No, not all boys who are homosexually raped in youth become homosexual in adulthood & yes, there are many gays who weren’t homosexually raped in their youths. But homosexual rapes in youth incr. risk of a boy turning out homosexual. A kid can become a mugger by living in high crime neighborhood, seeing muggings in childhood and learning this conduct. Yes, there are muggers who were not raised in high crime neighborhoods but still became muggers, but that does not rule out other causes. Many emphysema victims did not smoke and were not exposed to 2nd hand smoke and got emphysema due to bad genes but it would be dishonest to deny truth that if a person smokes, he or she is more likely to get emphysema.

With gay/lesbian conduct by adults, it’s best to find a cure for homosexual/lesbian conduct just as it’s best to find cure for tobacco use. If homosexual/lesbian conduct and tobacco use were to disappear eventually, then it’s fine with me and I wouldn’t lose sleep over it. I don’t care that the American Medical Association says that homosexual/lesbian activities isn’t a disease-go ahead & cure it. I believe in abolishing sex change mutilations-they must make sex changes a crime.

Finally, TimothyK-I do not believe that 40% of women have engaged in anal sex or sodomy because that would mean there are alot of dirty people out who are into turds and gas and I do not believe that. Radio host Rush H. Limbaugh in 1990 said that most straights find the idea of sodomy repugnant and what Mr. Limbaugh and Patrick J. Buchanan say about this is right. Most men are not interested in sex found in XXX movies.

Priya Lynn
July 10th, 2014 | LINK

Bhattacharya gayness is harmless and unlike tobacco use causes no health issues so it is not a birth defect or disease and is not in need of a “cure”. The vast majority of gays were not sexually abused and boys who’ve been raped are no more likely to be gay than boys who’ve never been raped. The vast majority of gays and lesbians develop same sex desires while they are still virgins, in no way is sexual orientation learned.

You have no rational reason to be against gayness.

Bhattacharya
July 10th, 2014 | LINK

Again, if 1 does not define a person who has same sex relations with a young boy as gay, then they call him straight or something else. It depends on your definition. The priests who molest young boys are gay pedophiles. If a man has sex with little girls only, then he is a straight pedophile. RushH. Limbaugh’s right when he said Jerry A. Sandusky is gay and columnist Patrick J. Buchanan condemns who he calls gay priests. Those priests are gay pedophiles, pederasts or homolesters. So there are many homosexual pedophiles such as the gay priests, Jerry A. Sandusky. Though it’s repeat it must be said again. A person is homosexual or lesbian if they knowingly and willing do same sex behaviors.

If a person has homosexual activities with a young boy, then they are a homosexual pedofile. Jerry A. Sandusky is a homosexual pedofile-even if J.A. Sandusky calls himself straight, he would still be gay by behavior definition. But homosexual groups say that he is not gay when his conduct defines him as such.

Again, it’s sexual conduct or behavior which defines if 1 is straight or homosexual. Even if a person has had opposite sex relations, if they knowingly and willing do homosexual behavior, then they’re homosexuals and lesbians. Since homosexuals and lesbians (transexuals) often suffered childhood sex abuse, it’s no surprise that homosexuals and lesbians think childhood sexual abuse is OK when it’s homosexual activities. All homosexual pedofiles are homosexuals. All transexuals are homosexual/lesbian as the act of mutilating to become false opposite sex is itself an act of homosexuality/lesbianism-sad maiming and make this illegal. Yes, this is repeating but it must again be said that if a person has same sex conduct with young boys and girls then they are homosexual and lesbian pedofiles because again, it’s the same sex conduct which defines. Asking me again will get you the same answer.

Eric Payne
July 10th, 2014 | LINK

I’ve suspected something for a couple of days now — our latest troll, Bhattacharya, is more than one individual, all posting under the same name.

In reading his posts, several of them differ in basic grammatical style. They’re not just different in construction, but jarringly different in style, vocabulary and phraseology.

In nor of the postings, yesterday, the word “pedophile” was spelled incorrectly each time it was used; yet that misspelling was consistent within the comment with an “f” replacing the “ph”.

Tonight, the poster again uses the word — but in each time, it is spelled correctly.

Jim, I smell a couple of goons just trying to get a rise out of us. Is there no way for WordPress to block the IP address(es) of this poster?

Bhattacharya
July 10th, 2014 | LINK

Eric, see my posts on aattp and here http://propagandaprofessor.net/2014/04/15/gay-activism-and-the-christian-persecution-complex-the-mask-of-religious-freedom/#comment-14979

Bhattacharya
July 10th, 2014 | LINK

Yes, I copy/paste what I have said about homosexuality on other forums because this topic has been discussed so many times and asking/saying the same things will get you the same answer.

Something new-see the angry reply I got from a psychologist after I commented here http://aattp.org/tx-ex-gay-activist-says-he-knows-500-dudes-who-went-straight/ Since this psychologist got offended by what I wrote using profanities it makes me believe that the psychologist has copathologies of his or her own. I say this because psychologists & psychiatrists often have disorders of their own because they deal with people’s problems such as paranonia, schizophrenia and the stress of that job can mess up mind. Of course, they have found that people who work in stressful jobs such as paramedics, fire dept, police & war veterans are more likely to have problems such as insomnia, Adult Onset ADD, PTSD because when you see dead bodies (crime scenes), people killed in car wrecks, war deaths and woundings (if you’re a war veteran) those events can stress the mind.

Psychologists and psychiatrists deal with other people’s problems and that can stress the mind. That psychologist sounds like he or she has disorders of their own and I think it’s because of stress of their job because what that psychologist said is not convincing but got offended because some of us do not trust what mainstream pscyhologists say on homosexuality/lesbianism. I don’t trust pro-gay pscyhologists such as J. Drescher or Gregory M. Herek because they distort things to support gay agenda including. Those 2 are apologists for Harvey B. Milk who in 1964 committed homosexual statutory rape on 16 year old boy which he wasn’t prosecuted for. So what they say is useless because they see nothing wrong with what Harvey B. Milk sexually abusing a 16 year old boy and even gay activists do not deny the truth that Harvey B. Milk sexually abused a 16 year old boy in 1964.

Eric Payne
July 11th, 2014 | LINK

Bhattacharya,

Despite your name, you are neither teacher nor priest. Nor are you royalty of any type.

You denigrate psychologists and psychiatrists, without offering your own c.v.. What are your qualifications to call into question the findings of those professionals?

KZ
July 11th, 2014 | LINK

If you search BTB for the commenters called “snowisfun” or “JR Johnson,” you will find posts with comments that are similar to those made by Bhattacharya. They’re the same person. I’m surprised Mr. Burroway hasn’t banned him as Bhattacharya yet.

Richard Rush
July 11th, 2014 | LINK

Is it possible that Bhattacharya (aka snowisfun, funinsnow, JR Johnson) is actually Janis Heuberger of Colorado Springs?

Timothy Kincaid
July 11th, 2014 | LINK

Whomever Battacharya is, they commit the cardinal sin of blogging: they’re boring. Just a lot of assertions and no substance.

As for snowisfun, I’ve long suspected that to be either a boy in his early teens or a person with mental challenges. Too many fart references. Which, now that you point it out, could also apply to Battacharya.

In any case, I see no value in further engaging in this individual/group.

Ben in Oakland
July 11th, 2014 | LINK

Anyone who claims that smoking tobacco causes children to be gay has never hung around with a bunch of penguins.

I think a don’t feed the troll warning should be sufficient. There is more ignorance, hate, bigotry, megalomania, despite, and stupidity in this one than can be found in a flock of funky fundamentalists.

5% fun, 95% mental.

Jim Burroway
July 11th, 2014 | LINK

I have placed Battacharya on moderation. I would encourage him/her to review our comments policy.

Priya Lynn
July 11th, 2014 | LINK

Battacharya said “Yes, I copy/paste what I have said about homosexuality on other forums because this topic has been discussed so many times and asking/saying the same things will get you the same answer”.

If you really belief that then wby are you posting here? Certainly no one here is buying your stale, childish, and absurd assertions.

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